Simple Stuff

salmon DO eat once in the rivers

if you only knew how many gut hooked kings i catch a year with hunk of skank down thier throat

they actually chew on it if the hook isnt set immediatly
they may not need to eat but instinct is a strong motive

hopisa helpas

hopeistha helpis

hisope helapa

I may have misread your post SP.
I took it as you saying they were hooked in the gut not as they were deeply mouth hooked.
If so I apologize.

coho, Never been any doubt in my mind and don't think any reply so far has disputed such.. Only sharing information here so others can learn and it will become a better experience.. As said we were the minority.. Hoping it could change to a majority.. If not then it will always remain status quo.

The key here is not every fish will bite/strike.. Don't fall into a trap and just keep "fishing" ..

One time years ago we were fishing in front of the dam in Oswego early November.We were using 6# test tippet and worms for bait trying for trout.As soon as we started I got a hit and set the hook,fish was a big one and took off and soon broke me off.Tried again and soon had another beat me up.Did n't see them but thought that these are BIG trout.After another battle I finally saw what was eating my worm,you guessed it they were Salmon eating those worms.**** things were a nuisance that day in November getting in the way of our trout fishing :)

No problem Tuna, if they didn't strike then why would we be concerned on how good our flies look. Granted I don't spend alot of time tying only because half of them get snagged on rocks, line, whatever. But numerous times i've had kings almost rip the rod out of my hands after slamming the fly. It would be hard to convince those that watch the flossers hook up over and over that traditional is the way to go. IMHO

ORIGINAL: retired guy

Here in Ct we have the Ct River Shad- they definately dont eat lures and meat cause they live on plankton.
You catch them by offering red and white Jigs and brassy wiggly things. They strike cause they want to and they HIT. Its an instinctive thing.
Can have a number of guys lined up on the edges casting and swinging but only a couple with the right drift catch the fish..
Sound familiar----
  BTW -there has never- in my experience- been guys out there fouling them cause they HIT.

When I was a teen I caught shad by the hundreds for the roe. I sold it to a fish store for 4 bucks a pound. I NEVER snagged one, even though I never used anything but shad darts. Some days red/white, some days yellow/red. All the time I spent doing it, not once. I must be the world's best flosser. After all, they do call American Shad  (I've also caught lots of Hickorys) , "poor man's salmon".
 
Charlie

Welcome.

Flies don't have to be pretty. They don't have to have tiny little heads.
They don't have to be tied on black japaned salmon hooks.
They should have movement.
The more different colors, shapes (long skinny,bulky and buggy,bright,dark)the better your chance to have what they will take on a given day.
Every dog has its day.
Same goes for flies.

Quick funny story:
yesterday Fichy get his first salmon on, this non fishing guy (he had no rod) walks over , watches and says "it's foul hooked" . Knowing the way the fish was reacting I just laughed and said "well ain't every salmon foul hooked" .. He said "yea" all serious.. So fichy is fighting his fish like a champ and the guy starts saying "I think it's belly hooked" .. Fichy & I look at each other and say "I don't think so" .. In comes the fish and then I had to get my leatherman out to pull the fly from the salmon's tounge.. Yup, it was lined !! He pouted and walked away..

ORIGINAL: hot tuna

Quick funny story:
yesterday Fichy get his first salmon on, this non fishing guy (he had no rod) walks over , watches and says "it's foul hooked" . Knowing the way the fish was reacting I just laughed and said "well ain't every salmon foul hooked" .. He said "yea" all serious.. So fichy is fighting his fish like a champ and the guy starts saying "I think it's belly hooked" .. Fichy & I look at each other and say "I don't think so" .. In comes the fish and then I had to get my leatherman out to pull the fly from the salmon's tounge.. Yup, it was lined !! He pouted and walked away..

HT,yes that is funny...but in a sad way it is n't,that imbedded attitude is going to be hard to change in a lot of folks!

The main problem is when you put a big fish like that in front of somebodies face especially a newbie the urge is to catch that fish by any means necessary.
When guys are hooking up all around you, the fish are jumping all around you, you want in on the action. So you follow the herd and put your little black sponge on and listen to all the guys telling you they won't hit won't eat their going to die anyway and that's the way you learn. Now you have guys coming up year after year doing the same thing because were driving x amount of miles and were catching fish. So you see what goes on and it's not going to change because the DEC is not going to crack down on these people because of the revenue they bring in.

It happen to me my first trip up back around 1996. Been fly fishing for about 8 yrs catching mainly stream trout and smallmouths. Well seeing these 30 lb behemoths launching themselves out of the water left and right really gets your blood boilling. I'm up at ellis cove trying to fly fish and present a drift to these things totally clueless as to what I was doing. Now I got rippers surrounding me hooking up every second getting ****ed off that I'm drifting my fly line through their hole. Finally I get a " dude your not going to catch anything that way they don't eat when they come in the river" he then proceeds to show me the proper way to floss or snag a fish without making it look suspicious.

And that's what I did for about two years, then I put my foot down and said there's got to be a way to hook these fish legally these fish have to take a fly in some fashion because fighting a snagged salmon in current is a losing battle when you can't turn or put pressure on their head. So I started reading books looking at articles, talking to guys at the fly shops ( the internet and sites like this weren't and option at that point). It took me about 3 yrs to get the jist of what I needed to do but well worth it. Way more enjoyable when they take that fly then snagging some half dead zombie in a deep pool.

Unfortunately most guys don't have the patience to learn when their making one trip a year.

Well Caddis your right to an extent and glad you have decided to fish for them..
About everything you just typed I've heard over & over too.. I don't want to offend anyone but basically it comes down to a persons choice and I'll leave it at that..

Now you said you were taught by someone on the river how to snag without being obvious, really we (I) have failed or not done enough to teach people how to "fish" and make it very obvious they can be caught .
I totally understand just wanting to avoid folks that are not so inclined, shoot I did yesterday. But if we truly want to change things it takes involvement without confrontation to make that happen..

These days it's easier then ever. Through most internet sites,books,videos,clubs and the teachings they hold at the hatchery there is more information then ever before.
Today’s class of young people have the tools and frequent the internet more then anything else. We need to be the ones showing the way, yea I know , sheep lol.. But it's true..
You learn things at a young age , right or wrong that tend to steer you in a direction..
The older legal snagging days are gone and those who been there are less and less so now is the time..
I hope to see it happen because it was just a joy fishing with a fellow angler yesterday..

    Hey guys- As I have said  before I was a master flosser for a very long time- did NOT believe they would eat a fly for years- Even flossed em right in fronta Wardens at LFZ and they thought I was doing it the 'right way'- catching not flossing.
    That said NEVER bought into that snaggin belly and tail stuff or where ever ya happpened to hit one.
   Now I like to watchem eat a fly- dont like to fish Kings blind- like to watch the show. Still aint above a floss after  a coupla days of zippo when they are herded to near death though.
But I am comin arond spending lotsa cash and time trying. Thanks for the help but I am still in Recovery.
  Been pretty much just a fly guy (cept for an occasional relapse) for a few years now.
    BTW -thats King flossin everything else has always been 'the right way'.
Dont intend to fry anybody but dats the truth. Have said it before too.
   I agree that guys with only a coupla days a year get misinformed and take on the 'strategy' that 'works'. Thats the way it was for me till I had the time to come up and learn the right way -then got nuts and even bought up there.
   Guess that means I agree with Tuna here- took a long time and a lotta encouragement but the message got through-- fish like ya do for everything else that ya fish for .
   When your up self learning and get told they dont bite by everyone all round all the time - its an easy trap to fall into.

ORIGINAL: ><>er man

the guys in michigan were useing something they called a blue dolphin just looked like a snagging hook in the shape of a minnow with a stripe of blue paint down the side what a joke i thought it was funny till i saw a little kid using one and happened to snag a monster in the back bout five feet from shore the fish made a bee line run straight away from him when the hook popped out and blasted him in the mouth there were pieces of his teeth all over him never felt so sick in my entire life all he kept saying is they were my adult teeth just ruined the rest of my week iwill try to find a picture of one although i'm sure everyone knows what they look like

That's one of the best anti-snagging stories I've ever heard. Poor kid. A slight variation of a Michigan cricket.