Hackle 
RIZ
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KJH807
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ORIGINAL: RIZ
so kjh,
do you know for a fact the NCFS is buying hackle from customers and reselling at 1000% profit, like you have, or is he using them to tie flies? by callin Bob a lier you must know something no one else does.  have you call Bob a lier to his face or just behind his back?
btw, how's the view from that high horse you're sitting on?
i know for a fact that he was bragging to anyone who would listen that he sold 60saddles for $18,000 i know for a fact that dealer cost on those is no more than $20 i know for a fact that he is looking to buy hackle from customers at MSRP... not affording them to make some $$ like he did... or ANY $$ for that matter i know for a fact that NOW he tells people that are selling him back hackle that "he is not involved in the fashion industry. he is a fly shop and is looking for feathers for fly tiers and flies" and he won't pay a fair price i never said what he was or wasn't doing with re-purchased hackle i never said he was a lier... just dishonest and unethical i doubt any flies in his shop bins contain re-purchased hackle... rather they're orderd like every other fly shop you want to attack me... cool, start a thread or PM me you want to call me out for making $$ on this? cool... i'll tell you how i did it without the shady NCFS-tactics you want to support NCFS.. cool I won't and will be more than happy to let anyone i know of why they should spend their $$ somewhere else
post edited by KJH807 - 2011/07/22 13:40:31
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dimebrite
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i've made a good chunk on this hackle thing...
sell out 
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dimebrite
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In the Business world, the 3 keys to success are; Lie,,,Cheat,,,and Steal.
He was the victim, selling for only 300 per unit. Now he wants to try a more successful approach.
i like this quote a little better 
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RIZ
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so kjh,
do you know for a fact the NCFS is buying hackle from customers and reselling at 1000% profit, like you have, or is he using them to tie flies? by callin Bob a lier you must know something no one else does. have you call Bob a lier to his face or just behind his back?
btw, how's the view from that high horse you're sitting on?
i know for a fact that he was bragging to anyone who would listen that he sold 60saddles for $18,000
i know for a fact that dealer cost on those is no more than $20
i know for a fact that he is looking to buy hackle from customers at MSRP... not affording them to make some $$ like he did... or ANY $$ for that matter
i know for a fact that NOW he tells people that are selling him back hackle that "he is not involved in the fashion industry. he is a fly shop and is looking for feathers for fly tiers and flies" and he won't pay a fair price
i never said what he was or wasn't doing with re-purchased hackle
i never said he was a lier... just dishonest and unethical
i doubt any flies in his shop bins contain re-purchased hackle... rather they're orderd like every other fly shop
you want to attack me... cool, start a thread or PM me
you want to call me out for making $$ on this? cool... i'll tell you how i did it without the shady NCFS-tactics
you want to support NCFS.. cool
I won't and will be more than happy to let anyone i know of why they should spend their $$ somewhere else
what i'm calling you out on is you're callinf him a liar when he says he want it for flies. that is the fact you omit. he can offer any price he wants to buy hackle, it's up to you if you'll take that offer. if you want more then sell it to someone who's willing to pay mare, as you did. but to bad mouth someone for that is unjust. and to do it behind his back is worse and cowardly. so if you have inside facts that he is indeed lieing and selling the hackle for extreme profit then i'll back you, until then, I'll take Bob at his word. because by your standard, you are the liar, by spreading unfounded rumour. rumour which you started. btw how were you harmed by this? why do you feel so empowered to be the cneter of rightousness? do feel as if you are the all mighty hackle police and must strike down all those who do not meet you standards. then strike yourself down because you are wanting for the moral high ground to make those accusations, even from that pedistal you place yourself on.
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KJH807
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what i'm calling you out on is you're callinf him a liar when he says he want it for flies. that is the fact you omit. he can offer any price he wants to buy hackle, it's up to you if you'll take that offer. if you want more then sell it to someone who's willing to pay mare, as you did. but to bad mouth someone for that is unjust. and to do it behind his back is worse and cowardly. so if you have inside facts that he is indeed lieing and selling the hackle for extreme profit then i'll back you, until then, I'll take Bob at his word. because by your standard, you are the liar, by spreading unfounded rumour. rumour which you started.
btw how were you harmed by this? why do you feel so empowered to be the cneter of rightousness? do feel as if you are the all mighty hackle police and must strike down all those who do not meet you standards. then strike yourself down because you are wanting for the moral high ground to make those accusations, even from that pedistal you place yourself on.
i said he's dishonest and unethical for telling people "i'm a fly shop, i'm not into fashion, my feathers are for flies"... AFTER he just sold 60saddles for $18,000 I'm not going to get into any the "rumors"/speculation about the deal... i'm just going on facts people can take any price he offers... heck give it to him for free I've never claimed to be "high and mighty" ... its the internet, your posts carry as much weight as minne i'm just sharing some information and why i will never support his shop he is not entiled to customers... he has to earn them... and this case he is earning the loss of business I'm sure people are happy to know some back story i'd be jacked if I sold a saddle for $35 to the shop (under the impression that he is a struggling small business owner who is loosing out on business to a fashion tren) only to find he cashed in big time and decided to leave that part of the story out
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RIZ
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so you are stating, as fact, he is selling the hackle he is buying right now for fashion? what proof do you have? is he bragging to you he's doing it still? you seem to know his personal business. please tell us the facts. as for high and mighty, your the one potificating how evil it is to fashion business, and will not support someone who does (although you do it yourself). even to go so fas as to shout it from the roof tops " do not buy from NCFS, he is a liar". i must be mistake, you're not setting yourself up on a pedistal, it's the moral high ground your standing on. if it smells like  then it is
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KJH807
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...i never said what he was or wasn't doing with re-purchased hackle
... ORIGINAL: KJH807
READ and UNDERSTAND what I am saying... i have nothing against him selling hackle at high prices
i think it is BS that he is trying to take advantage of his customers with deceptive practice and being untruthful
post edited by KJH807 - 2011/07/22 15:51:18
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dimebrite
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what i'm calling you out on is you're callinf him a liar when he says he want it for flies. that is the fact you omit. he can offer any price he wants to buy hackle, it's up to you if you'll take that offer. if you want more then sell it to someone who's willing to pay mare, as you did. but to bad mouth someone for that is unjust. and to do it behind his back is worse and cowardly. so if you have inside facts that he is indeed lieing and selling the hackle for extreme profit then i'll back you, until then, I'll take Bob at his word. because by your standard, you are the liar, by spreading unfounded rumour. rumour which you started.
btw how were you harmed by this? why do you feel so empowered to be the cneter of rightousness? do feel as if you are the all mighty hackle police and must strike down all those who do not meet you standards. then strike yourself down because you are wanting for the moral high ground to make those accusations, even from that pedistal you place yourself on.
i said he's dishonest and unethical for telling people "i'm a fly shop, i'm not into fashion, my feathers are for flies"... AFTER he just sold 60saddles for $18,000
I'm not going to get into any the "rumors"/speculation about the deal... i'm just going on facts
people can take any price he offers... heck give it to him for free
I've never claimed to be "high and mighty" ... its the internet, your posts carry as much weight as minne
i'm just sharing some information and why i will never support his shop
he is not entiled to customers... he has to earn them... and this case he is earning the loss of business
I'm sure people are happy to know some back story
i'd be jacked if I sold a saddle for $35 to the shop (under the impression that he is a struggling small business owner who is loosing out on business to a fashion tren) only to find he cashed in big time and decided to leave that part of the story out
Hey kj; im gonna ask an honest question.... if you had the oppurtunity to buy a 14" #1 grade barred ginger saddle for under 100 dollars would you buy it? ??? And going further; what would you do with it afterwards???? Also, would you educate the seller after he approaches you that he can get a lot more money for it??? For some reason I think I can smell your breath through your post..Bottom line is you got called out on bs just like your flossed steelhead pic back in may... give up like you did then...face it dude; you're just as much as a sell out for selling feathers at high dollar amounts. If you really cared as much as you claim you do; you would've saved your saddles for tying for personal use..
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KJH807
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Hey kj; im gonna ask an honest question.... if you had the oppurtunity to buy a 14" #1 grade barred ginger saddle for under 100 dollars would you buy it? ??? And going further; what would you do with it afterwards???? Also, would you educate the seller after he approaches you that he can get a lot more money for it??? For some reason I think I can smell your breath through your post..Bottom line is you got called out on bs just like your flossed steelhead pic back in may... give up like you did then...face it dude; you're just as much as a sell out for selling feathers at high dollar amounts. If you really cared as much as you claim you do; you would've saved your saddles for tying for personal use..
barred ginger saddle... no buy a grizzly saddle on ebay for 100... sure buy ANYTHING with an industry/dealer discount and then sell for an inflated profit... NEVER not to get of topic... but about a "flossed stealhead"... (and yes, for once i will jump on a "high horse") over the years I've been on this board, people may have not aggreeed with what i post, but i have never called anyone out for lack of experience Dimlight... you have no F-ing idea what you are talking about... and are truely an idiot just because you live in NJ and snag and floss kings with a 2 handed rod... doesn't mean shlt i know you think you are funny... but you're not
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RIZ
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you are a real piece of work. you're right, you know what's in people's minds and hearts. NCFS is a sell out and you're an angle. i'm done with you, if you can't see what you're doing, then there is no hope in opening your eyes.
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dano
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I don't know how far I'd go w2ith him being dishonest, but.........
I do get why some would find his practices a little shady.
Look, the dude sells out all stock for huge profits and putting a bunch of money in his wallet.
Now he wants to restock his inventory at MSRP from his paying customers. "please sell me your feathers"
His customers who sell back at MSRP - make zilch while he still has $18,000 in his pocket.
Say he is able to find and buy all 60 saddles back at the $70 MSRP.
He now gets his inventory back at $4,200 and profits the other $13,800.
If his paying customers want to be a part of that scheme, so be it.
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dimebrite
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Hey kj; im gonna ask an honest question.... if you had the oppurtunity to buy a 14" #1 grade barred ginger saddle for under 100 dollars would you buy it? ??? And going further; what would you do with it afterwards???? Also, would you educate the seller after he approaches you that he can get a lot more money for it??? For some reason I think I can smell your breath through your post..Bottom line is you got called out on bs just like your flossed steelhead pic back in may... give up like you did then...face it dude; you're just as much as a sell out for selling feathers at high dollar amounts. If you really cared as much as you claim you do; you would've saved your saddles for tying for personal use..
barred ginger saddle... no
buy a grizzly saddle on ebay for 100... sure
buy ANYTHING with an industry/dealer discount and then sell for an inflated profit... NEVER
not to get of topic... but about a "flossed stealhead"...
(and yes, for once i will jump on a "high horse")
over the years I've been on this board, people may have not aggreeed with what i post, but i have never called anyone out for lack of experience
Dimlight... you have no F-ing idea what you are talking about... and are truely an idiot
just because you live in NJ and snag and floss kings with a 2 handed rod... doesn't mean shlt
i know you think you are funny... but you're not
Wow taking it a little personal it seems kj...has a nerve been struck??? it would be obvious to most that your opinion on the whole matter means nothing since you've cashed in yourself on the matter at stake here... bottom line... for me being from jersey??? What does that have to do with anything???? Flossed kings??? Yes some get flossed sometimes just as some of your steelhead do too(to the contrary of what you believe)...as I've offered before, join me on the river one of these days so you can SEE what im all about rather than assuming. btw; congratulations for finally admitting to your granite pedastal you stand on  give it a rest; you have no point.
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Cold
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dimebrite, do they teach you to read in new jersey?
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PeteM
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I thought that orvis shops only sold orvis flies?
Is that the case, do they sell their own too, or is that at the owners discretion?
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steely34
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Interesting chat we have going on here. Can't quite understand why it always has to come to a challenge on the water though.
And I'll admit - when I was up over the 4th - I stopped in at Folley's to get a few items and along with some other stuff, I got two Metz saddles for around $50. Both were coachman brown in color. My original thought was to try and resell one of them. Then I got a call from my wife's hairdresser who asked if I had any I wanted to sell. I sold one of them to her for $45.00 and she was happy with it. But then she turned around and tried to sell it it on Ebay for $150 but it didn't sell - brown is not the color of choice in someone's hair. So i guess I'm guilty of contributing to the craze. But I'm honest in saying I bought one of them to sell and perhaps make some $ on it and I was honest with the lady who bought it. I'm not saying I bought it to tie flies.
As far as the NCFS thing - I'm kinda on the fence with this. I can understand running a shop is tough and they are closing down all over the country. A sad thing and when an opportunity comes along to make serious $, I guess you just gotta do whatever you need to do....... but you should be honest about it - especially when you attempt to buy back a saddle you sold previously - telling your customer that you need it for tying when you just sold 60 saddles for serious cash.
Bottom line for me personally - my silver grade grizzly's - I will not part with - no matter what the cost. I just like working with them too much. And yeah what Dano said about the time will perhaps come for a while when we will just have to tie dries the old fashion way..... that's not a bad thing. But the other patterns that call for the entire feather may suffer a bit.
What ever happened to the good old days when we used to pick up dead squirrels along the road for their tails, skin the pheasants you shot for the feathers (and then had them to feed the family), a box of 100 hooks cost a couple of dollars, and you could buy the Thompson Pro A vice with a weeks worth of allowance for painting the garage? Ahhhh - the good old days.
"They say you forget your troubles on a trout stream, but that's not quite it..... you begin to see where your troubles fit into the grand scheme of things, and suddenly they're just not such a big deal anymore." John Gierach
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dimebrite
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dimebrite, do they teach you to read in new jersey?
Good one cold; keep looking at your gaga posters on your ceiling til wee hours of the night... Fyi; I clearly understand kevins point; I just feel as if he has contributed to the whole grand scheme; IMO; ithink he's fooling himself by trying to highlight someone elses actions. Just felt as if it was necessary to recomend a resignation from the elitists podium that he stands on.... Btw; im littleupset by your commentcome to think of it. You once told me I have such sharp wit 
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KJH807
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READ and UNDERSTAND what I am saying... i have nothing against him selling hackle at high prices
i think it is BS that he is trying to take advantage of his customers with deceptive practice and being untruthful
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dimebrite
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Interesting chat we have going on here. Can't quite understand why it always has to come to a challenge on the water though.
And I'll admit - when I was up over the 4th - I stopped in at Folley's to get a few items and along with some other stuff, I got two Metz saddles for around $50. Both were coachman brown in color. My original thought was to try and resell one of them. Then I got a call from my wife's hairdresser who asked if I had any I wanted to sell. I sold one of them to her for $45.00 and she was happy with it. But then she turned around and tried to sell it it on Ebay for $150 but it didn't sell - brown is not the color of choice in someone's hair. So i guess I'm guilty of contributing to the craze. But I'm honest in saying I bought one of them to sell and perhaps make some $ on it and I was honest with the lady who bought it. I'm not saying I bought it to tie flies.
As far as the NCFS thing - I'm kinda on the fence with this. I can understand running a shop is tough and they are closing down all over the country. A sad thing and when an opportunity comes along to make serious $, I guess you just gotta do whatever you need to do....... but you should be honest about it - especially when you attempt to buy back a saddle you sold previously - telling your customer that you need it for tying when you just sold 60 saddles for serious cash.
Bottom line for me personally - my silver grade grizzly's - I will not part with - no matter what the cost. I just like working with them too much. And yeah what Dano said about the time will perhaps come for a while when we will just have to tie dries the old fashion way..... that's not a bad thing. But the other patterns that call for the entire feather may suffer a bit.
What ever happened to the good old days when we used to pick up dead squirrels along the road for their tails, skin the pheasants you shot for the feathers (and then had them to feed the family), a box of 100 hooks cost a couple of dollars, and you could buy the Thompson Pro A vice with a weeks worth of allowance for painting the garage? Ahhhh - the good old days.
Said very nicely steely. For your comment about the competition on the river; you are misunderstanding me if im who you were referring to. I have simply made the offer to kevin for him to see my experience level and tactis first hand; rather than assume... Tight lines friend Ps... its been a while since I tied and fished dries, but I used nothing but necks for my dries and had no problems with that
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luvinbluegills
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Let's see, it was said that Bob "bragged" to everyone how he sold his hackle to fashion feather seekers, implying that it was no secret, but general knowledge. Then it was said that it was "deceitful" that he was trying to buy back and resell hackles. You can't have it both ways. Deceit requires keeping some important aspect of the deal secret, and according to your own posts, this has not happened.
Please, no one take what I am about to say as a slight against any fly shop, because any of you who see me in your shop even sporadically can be assured that I think you do good business.
Bob Shuey's Neshannock Creek Fly Shop is the only fly shop at which I have never, never, NEVER been approached to buy any product. I walk in the door and it's "Hey Mark, good to see you, how are you?" Never even once has Bob or any member of his crew so much as suggested any product to me unless I asked first. In all my visits to his shop I've never heard him push anything on anyone else either. When he realized that I just don't make much money, he taught me to make the most of the inexpensive stuff.
Bob is personally largely responsible for me becoming successful at fly fishing due to his encouragement when I started out and was getting frustrated with my casting. His advice is something I've never forgotten and share often: "any cast that gets the fly to the fish without spooking them is a good cast". That was encouragement to me to keep trying and not long afterwards I mastered the hinge cast and roll cast.
It's a load of garbage to say that he has suddenly become a ripoff artist, and for every person you push away from him, I will strive to turn two his way to make up for it. I drive the hour North to make my big purchases from him because he has been so influential in my fly fishing, and everytime I encourage a couple to visit Volant for sightseeing, I tell them to stop and see Bob to say hi.
He'd be a fool not to take advantage of the market swing, and he's done nothing, even in your own words, to fool anyone. Nothing I've said is intended to denigrate any of the other great shops I visit, but I won't sit by while a good man and good businessman is disparaged.
Neshannock Creek Flyshop is the spot to visit, period. Bob Shuey will take GOOD care of you.
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FlyFishingPenrod 
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the point of this, as been noted 4 times, is that after bragging about selling for huge profits, he is now begging customers to sell at msrp. To not take advantage of his customers, he should be at least paying double what the normal is after cashing out and making the local market dry for customers, so yes, he is taking advantage of those who have bought off of him. The only other viable option would be for him to admit to his customers he made a mistake and point them towards a shop that did not sell out to fashion.
I see all too much people crying about buying online and not from local shops, then a shop turns around and does it, and all is okay? My local dealer has pulled his long saddles off the shelf. He told me over the weekend that a woman called proclaiming she needed grizzly for her father who was going to alaska for the first time in his life in November and needed the hackle to tie flies. He then told her he would be the first of many to be fishing flies under the ice. The convo ended there haha.
Keep fighting you two whipper snappers. I am enjoying the morning coffee, my arthritis is kicking in and I could use some more laughs. Dime, you are something special, I would fish with you anytime. You too KJH, rumor has it that no one can double haul like you sir.
Penrod
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Steeler Fan
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I must agree totally with luvinbluegills' post. My experience with Bob is the same. I really enjoyed taking lessons from Bob and never felt pressured to purchase anything from at NFS. Bob has been a wealth of knowledge. I apologize that I mentioned his advertisement on the NFS website to get this argument going. It was not intended to do that nor was I aware that he supposedly sold his hackle. I was just replying to Bings comment about a lack of material available.
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Cold
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I will say that I have only been to the shop in question once, and was not at all impressed with the service, and will not be back. PS. Who are you all selling these saddles to? I got one to hawk. 
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KJH807
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dimebrite
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maybe BOB SHUEY from ncfs should contact "SHUEboy1954" on ebay
he has lots of hackle for sale
shueboy1954 is from Grove City... right next to Volant... they could save on shipping costs
1954? so 57ys old? how old is bob?
http://shop.ebay.com/shueboy1954/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=200
Maybe you should just give it a rest already...
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Cold
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dUUd, all KJH is doing is backing up what he's saying.
All you're doing is making a fool of yourself. You keep whinign about the same point that was never under dispute, and when anyone criticizes you, you respond with nonsense.
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dimebrite
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Far from a fool cold. besides my point has already been proven more than a few times as stated on this thread from others that they will still shop there. I don't know what kj is getting out of this; besides a stiiffy for his own self gratifying needs. I just think its shallow and that's just it...
Btw; I know you enjoy fishing for steel with 1.5" schedule 40 pvc as you've stated in the past. I actually have a lot of 1.5" cpvc for fire sprinklers left over from a job in 17' lengths. Its a little more flexible than schedule 40 and has a great mid body. Let me know if you're interested and I will be more than happy to tie a length up for you as a two handed rod you can use this steelhead season; the pipe is a nice bright orange in color and would probably go well with your lady gaga attire you wear.
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KJH807
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dimlight.... youre like a child... please speak when spoken to
i was digging around on ebay lastnight and saw that
people asked for proof... i provided
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dimebrite
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dUUd, all KJH is doing is backing up what he's saying.
All you're doing is making a fool of yourself. You keep whinign about the same point that was never under dispute, and when anyone criticizes you, you respond with nonsense.
I believe cold was speaking to me when he said this
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Cold
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dUUd, all KJH is doing is backing up what he's saying.
All you're doing is making a fool of yourself. You keep whinign about the same point that was never under dispute, and when anyone criticizes you, you respond with nonsense.
I believe cold was speaking to me when he said this
I didn't ask for your input.
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