deerfly 
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/17 20:15:39
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Usually they use some Officer discretion and don’t even stop a person unless they are at least 10 miles over the limit.
 That is not officer discretion, that is PSP policy based on the accuracy of the radar equipment they are using. If they are following you in a patrol car they can cite you for being 3 or 4 miles over the limit. Of course if they establish that you were 10 mile over the limit and hit a pedestrian or lost control and hit another vehicle you will get cited for having been going to fast. That is no different than a WCO using Officer discretion on some regulation violations right up until it becomes a matter that needs to be addressed with charges. It is all part of that common sense factor more Officers use on a daily bases.
But there is a big difference when the PGC actively condones and supports activities that are a clear violation of the code. That goes far beyond common sense and WCO discretion.
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retired guy
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/17 21:27:04
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Having a small tidbit of experience with radar in my 28 years on the job I must say that I have NEVER before heard of its being inaccurate (especially 10 MILES)- in fact just the opposite. Nor did I ever hear of one of my peers nailing anyone for 4 miles over either. This is exactly the style of discussion that leads to Zero Tolerance enforcement wherein all LE discretion is eliminated and everyone gets pinched for little things. That leads to nothing but fines for decent folks and has NOTHING to do with stopping real criminal activity. Is that what you are looking for? The threads initial thing on trail cams in your state may well have led some to enforce in that manner due to the manner in which the LE actions on the issue were portrayed,. Was that the intent? Does that stop criminals ? I think not. In 'real life' sometimes one gets exactly what they ask for. Some folks think that constantly bashing LE is somekinda SPORT.
post edited by retired guy - 2011/07/18 01:34:58
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 00:58:20
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: dpms
ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures
When one post just to criticize another member and has no input as far as topic goes, then they are guilty of such an attack. Care to add anything pertaining to topic DPMS ?
I would agree with your assessment. I would disagree with who you most likely feel are the constant offenders. That is up to moderation.
I will add that my opinion on the topic of trail cameras on SGL is a non-issue unless damage is done to the tree.
I don't feel "anyone" is a constant offender. Everyone has their views and opinions. A post just to criticize and "nothing" else is not acceptable by anyone. If ones opinion is expressed while discussing a topic no problem.
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 01:13:48
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: RSB
I guess I should sent an e-mail to your local PSP barracks and explain to them that in the future you expect to not only be stopped but also cited when they hit you with radar at a couple miles over the speed limit. Usually they use some Officer discretion and don’t even stop a person unless they are at least 10 miles over the limit.
Â
Of course if they establish that you were 10 mile over the limit and hit a pedestrian or lost control and hit another vehicle you will get cited for having been going to fast. That is no different than a WCO using Officer discretion on some regulation violations right up until it becomes a matter that needs to be addressed with charges. It is all part of that common sense factor more Officers use on a daily bases.
Â
Just like yesterday when I caught the group camped on game lands. It was a clear violation and I could certainly have cited them but I elected instead to want them and give them directions to where they could legally camp on the National Forest. Sometimes when it is already dark and find campers I will let them spend the night and move the next day. I guess you figure I should just go ahead and issue them citations though, right?
Â
R.S. BodenhornÂ
RSB, I think most if not all laws that the PSP enforce are pretty cut and dry. Law states that the speed limit is XX miles per hour. It doesn't take several judges to decide if one understood the law correctly.How ever it does take several judges to decide on many PGC laws.Just too vague and too many loop holes. Example: What set distance can a hunter hunt from a baited area? See what I mean ? Would you agree or disagree. I understand you work for the PGC and your job is to represent them but give a honest answer. PM would be fine if you choose.
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 01:33:52
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: retired guy
  Having a small tidbit of experience with radar in my 28 years on the job I must say that I have NEVER before heard of its being inaccurate (especially 10 MILES)- in fact just the opposite.
 Nor did I ever hear of one of my peers nailing anyone for 4 miles over either.
This is exactly the style of discussion that leads to Zero Tolerance enforcement wherein all LE discretion is eliminated and everyone gets pinched for little things. That leads to nothing but fines for decent folks and has NOTHING to do with stopping real criminal activity. Â Â Â
   Is that what you are looking for?
The threads initial thing on trail cams in your state may well have led some to enforce in that manner due to the manner in which the LE actions on the issue were portrayed,. Was that the intent? Does that stop criminals ? I think not.
 In 'real life' sometimes one gets exactly what they ask for.
RG you know as well as I do that many police have campaigns to ticket speeders rather it be radar, vas car or what ever. YES there is error in every type of equipment not to mention human error. Large number of violators show up to appeal the charges and many times a plea is accepted and the agency gets their money along with the courts. The violator then receive no points on their driving record as a result of the plea. It's primary goal is to bring in the money to the agency. Many times I think that some agencies send out the wrong vibes to people who are law abiding citizens but get caught up because of a slight error. That will most likely leave a very sour taste in ones mouth for a long time. Same goes for a simple violation of game codes.
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retired guy
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 02:00:13
(permalink)
Weary of the constant grousing and bashing on LE that occurs here. Ends up that way too often. Bet the farm that constant LE bashers would be right in line crying if they were picked up for minor violations - Yet they jump around here bashing LE acting in a reasonable common sense manner on their behalf. Wonder if some of them have been pinched and cant get over it. Speculation of LE intent and the apparent foregone conclusion that it is improper is so predictable as to become boring. Actually it comes with the job. Carrying a badge is viewed as a very negative thing by some folks- they say NOOOO its not that and come up with excuses but its the same folks all the time- happens no matter where ya go. Give your Wardens credit for efforts to educate and explain- know guys who would just go bout their business. Letter of the Law enforcement would make some very happy--till they drive 26 mph. Ya know - your Wardens are NOT going out thinking everyone they meet is doing something wrong but a lotta guys seem to believe the opposite--too bad. BTW-OA NO the primary goal of 'selective' enforcement is NOT to bring money to the agency - The agency doesnt get to keep the money it goes to general funds of Govt.as all tickets and fines do. Actually it usually COSTS the agency extra manpower dollars. I know a lot of folks believe what you imply but please check it out yourself if need be- just ask where ticket money or court fines go. It is also very common for these efforts to be mandated by local or state govt due to complaints they are recieving concerning particular issues. The goal is responding to specific complaints of illegal behavior in particular areas that occur far too often. Like stop sign violations near a school or drunken traffic accidents on a particular roadway or poachers working a particular county road etc etc- Now I suppose guys will chime in with negative views concerning selective enforcement and how LE is messing that up too. Gee wonder who they will be?
post edited by retired guy - 2011/07/18 02:39:47
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RSB
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 09:53:32
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ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures
ORIGINAL: RSB
I guess I should sent an e-mail to your local PSP barracks and explain to them that in the future you expect to not only be stopped but also cited when they hit you with radar at a couple miles over the speed limit. Usually they use some Officer discretion and don’t even stop a person unless they are at least 10 miles over the limit.
Of course if they establish that you were 10 mile over the limit and hit a pedestrian or lost control and hit another vehicle you will get cited for having been going to fast. That is no different than a WCO using Officer discretion on some regulation violations right up until it becomes a matter that needs to be addressed with charges. It is all part of that common sense factor more Officers use on a daily bases.
Just like yesterday when I caught the group camped on game lands. It was a clear violation and I could certainly have cited them but I elected instead to want them and give them directions to where they could legally camp on the National Forest. Sometimes when it is already dark and find campers I will let them spend the night and move the next day. I guess you figure I should just go ahead and issue them citations though, right?
R.S. Bodenhorn
RSB, I think most if not all laws that the PSP enforce are pretty cut and dry. Law states that the speed limit is XX miles per hour. It doesn't take several judges to decide if one understood the law correctly.How ever it does take several judges to decide on many PGC laws.Just too vague and too many loop holes. Example: What set distance can a hunter hunt from a baited area? See what I mean ? Would you agree or disagree. I understand you work for the PGC and your job is to represent them but give a honest answer. PM would be fine if you choose.
No I don’t agree with you at all. There are many vague laws in both the crimes code and traffic code that the State Police, and all other empowered Enforcement Officers, enforce with both Officer discretion and guidance from previous court opinions. That is no different than the way WCOs enforce the Game and Wildlife Code. The laws are actually set up that way because most things are not intended to be so totally cut and dry as some of you think you want it to be. That is why they make such a dedicated effort to hire and train people with better than average levels of common sense and also why so few people are cut out to be law enforcement officers. Nor do I agree with you at all about baiting laws needing a distance assigned to them. In fact setting a distance would the stupidest thing they could do and even worse than just making baiting legal. If they set a distance where it is legal to be within bait it will make it so that hunters and non-hunters alike can shut down HUGE areas to all other hunters. If they make the distance 200 yards all I have to do is sight my gun in for 225 yards then bait an area 225 in all directions around my favorite spots. Then if someone tries to set up anywhere within 400 yards, in any direction, of my stand location I can just go over and tell them to move on or they will be arrested for hunting within the illegal distance of a baited area. With a baiting law distance anyone can shut down any other hunter’s hunting locations just by putting out some bait, and be perfectly legal doing it. Now after thinking about that for even an instant any logical thinking person should be able to see why sometimes having laws that allow for a combination of Officer discretion and guidance from previous court opinions ARE the best approach to having both logical and fair enforcement of some laws instead of having everything so clear cut or strictly enforced in a total black and white manner. R.S. Bodenhorn
post edited by RSB - 2011/07/18 09:58:25
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 10:59:07
(permalink)
Example: What set distance can a hunter hunt from a baited area? See what I mean ? Would you agree or disagree. Just think if the baiting law was cut and dry with a specific distance and no officer discretion ... If the PGC WCO had quotas like someone accused police of having, a WCO or anyone could just dump some corn near a parking lot the night before opening day then come back the next morning and arrest everyone within the 200 yard area in RSB's example... The speed limit is say 65... that's cut and dry right ... If I go 67mph am I going to get a ticket .. maybe, maybe not... that's no more cut and dry than hunting near bait. If I am 190 yards away will I get a ticket ?? Baiting deer is illegal.. period.. it says nothing about a distance .... and I agree with RSB.. it is illegal.. put a distance on it and many are going to bait and sit just that far away ... or is a couple feet short (like 2-3 miles per hour over the law) okay... how about 10 feet short of the allowed distance ??? and as RSB stated with the 200 yard example.. A hunter could easily close alot of area to other hunters ... not to mention the poor guy who just happens into that 400 yard circle... and as for officer discretion .. what about the poor guy who did not cover than 400 square yard before hunting there, maybe he should have paced it off the night before... but what if the hunter just dropped the corn there on his way in that morning ??? And don't forget how it was pointed out in another thread that I could easily feed deer 24/7 and 365 and just move 200 yards (again-RSB EXAMPLE) away and be legal .... oh wait my 100 yard safety zone .. put the corn there and then add 200 yards.. now I'd be sitting 300 yards away from home and perfectly legal... plus I could keep guys from hunting 300 yards away on SGL#54 .... that would put them all down in the hollow and not on top watching down into it.  RSB made it clear why the law is written the way it is, you anti PGC guys just can't see any good in anything the PGC or WCOs do........
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/07/18 11:01:07
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deerfly
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 12:36:29
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Could it be that a former LEO is being super sensitive and defensive to a point where he can't even understand the issue I am raising. I have no problem with a WCO exercising discretion while enforcing the regs. For 28 years I was responsible for enforcing the environmental regs and I applied common sense and discretion over and over again. As a result I know the problems that arise when the laws are written poorly and the agency relies on the discretion of the officer to make up for the flaws in the law.
I have no problem with the way the WCOs are enforcing the turkey hunting regs ,but I do have a problem with the fact the laws are written so poorly that the average hunter has no idea how the law will be enforced. I also have a problem with the PGC condoning and supporting methods that are in direct violation of the code. So, my problem is not the WCOs that enforce the law and I have never been cited for any hunting violation in over 50 years of hunting and their is no animosity between me and the WCOs in my area.
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spoonchucker
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 13:38:48
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" I also have a problem with the PGC condoning and supporting methods that are in direct violation of the code."
Care to cite an example of this?
Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference. Step Up, or Step Aside The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody. GL
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 14:20:11
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: retired guy
   Weary of the constant grousing and bashing on LE that occurs here. Ends up that way too often.   Â
Bet the farm that constant LE bashers would be right in line crying if they were picked up for minor violations - Yet they jump around here bashing LE acting in a reasonable common sense manner on their behalf.
  Wonder if some of them have been pinched and cant get over it. Speculation of LE intent and the apparent foregone conclusion that it is improper is so predictable as to become boring.
  Actually it comes with the job. Carrying a badge is viewed as a very negative thing by some folks- they say NOOOO its not that and come up with excuses but its the same folks all the time- happens no matter where ya go.
Give your Wardens credit for efforts to educate and explain- know guys who would just go bout their business.
Letter of the Law enforcement would make some very happy--till they drive 26 mph.
 Ya know - your Wardens are NOT going out thinking everyone they meet is doing something wrong but a lotta guys seem to believe the opposite--too bad.
BTW-OA
NO the primary goal of 'selective' enforcement is NOT to bring money to the agency - The agency doesnt get to keep the money it goes to general funds of Govt.as all tickets and fines do. Actually it usually COSTS the agency extra manpower dollars. I know a lot of folks believe what you imply but please check it out yourself if need be- just ask where ticket money or court fines go.
 It is also very common for these efforts to be mandated by local or state govt due to complaints they are recieving concerning particular issues.
 The goal is responding to specific complaints of illegal behavior in particular areas that occur far too often. Like stop sign violations near a school or drunken traffic accidents on a particular roadway or poachers working a particular county road etc etc-
  Now I suppose guys will chime in with negative views concerning selective enforcement and how LE is messing that up too. Gee wonder who they will be?
BTW-OA
NO the primary goal of 'selective' enforcement is NOT to bring money to the agency - The agency doesnt get to keep the money it goes to general funds of Govt.as all tickets and fines do. Actually it usually COSTS the agency extra manpower dollars. I know a lot of folks believe what you imply but please check it out yourself if need be- just ask where ticket money or court fines go. I know where it goes, a % of it goes to pay salaries (general fund) among many other places. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourCar/speeding-youll-pay-higher-taxes.aspx Care to comment on the link ?
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 14:46:49
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: RSB
ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures
ORIGINAL: RSB
I guess I should sent an e-mail to your local PSP barracks and explain to them that in the future you expect to not only be stopped but also cited when they hit you with radar at a couple miles over the speed limit. Usually they use some Officer discretion and don’t even stop a person unless they are at least 10 miles over the limit.
Â
Of course if they establish that you were 10 mile over the limit and hit a pedestrian or lost control and hit another vehicle you will get cited for having been going to fast. That is no different than a WCO using Officer discretion on some regulation violations right up until it becomes a matter that needs to be addressed with charges. It is all part of that common sense factor more Officers use on a daily bases.
Â
Just like yesterday when I caught the group camped on game lands. It was a clear violation and I could certainly have cited them but I elected instead to want them and give them directions to where they could legally camp on the National Forest. Sometimes when it is already dark and find campers I will let them spend the night and move the next day. I guess you figure I should just go ahead and issue them citations though, right?
Â
R.S. BodenhornÂ
RSB, I think most if not all laws that the PSP enforce are pretty cut and dry. Law states that the speed limit is XX miles per hour. It doesn't take several judges to decide if one understood the law correctly.How ever it does take several judges to decide on many PGC laws.Just too vague and too many loop holes. Example: What set distance can a hunter hunt from a baited area? See what I mean ? Would you agree or disagree. I understand you work for the PGC and your job is to represent them but give a honest answer. PM would be fine if you choose.
No I don’t agree with you at all. There are many vague laws in both the crimes code and traffic code that the State Police, and all other empowered Enforcement Officers, enforce with both Officer discretion and guidance from previous court opinions.
Â
That is no different than the way WCOs enforce the Game and Wildlife Code. The laws are actually set up that way because most things are not intended to be so totally cut and dry as some of you think you want it to be. That is why they make such a dedicated effort to hire and train people with better than average levels of common sense and also why so few people are cut out to be law enforcement officers.
Â
Nor do I agree with you at all about baiting laws needing a distance assigned to them. In fact setting a distance would the stupidest thing they could do and even worse than just making baiting legal. If they set a distance where it is legal to be within bait it will make it so that hunters and non-hunters alike can shut down HUGE areas to all other hunters. If they make the distance 200 yards all I have to do is sight my gun in for 225 yards then bait an area 225 in all directions around my favorite spots. Then if someone tries to set up anywhere within 400 yards, in any direction, of my stand location I can just go over and tell them to move on or they will be arrested for hunting within the illegal distance of a baited area. With a baiting law distance anyone can shut down any other hunter’s hunting locations just by putting out some bait, and be perfectly legal doing it.
Â
Now after thinking about that for even an instant any logical thinking person should be able to see why sometimes having laws that allow for a combination of Officer discretion and guidance from previous court opinions ARE the best approach to having both logical and fair enforcement of some laws instead of having everything so clear cut or strictly enforced in a total black and white manner.
Â
R.S. Bodenhorn
That is why they make such a dedicated effort to hire and train people with better than average levels of common sense and also why so few people are cut out to be law enforcement officers. You should of wrote to "TRY" and hire and train... I know quite a few L/E people that just shake their head at some of the actions of Deputy WCO's. A few have even been relocated because of the effects they had on the hunting community. They seem to target the out of towner's(easy fine money) as that is the bread and butter of many small town businesses come fall. Don't get me wrong many WCO's do a good job but, not all just like cops. Perhaps clearing up some of these vague laws would put more hunters back in the woods. Thanks for your honest reply. OA BTW some states have a set distance from a bait station, why not Pa? Who knows for sure ?
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 14:59:20
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BTW some states have a set distance from a bait station, why not Pa? Who knows for sure ?
I think RSB just gave an excellent explaination of why a set distance is not good for Pa... didn't you read his post ????  If you are a property owner I hope you realize that a "set distance" could give a neighbor a way to keep you from hunting sections on your own porperty !!!!!
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/07/18 15:01:08
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 15:04:14
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
BTW some states have a set distance from a bait station, why not Pa? Who knows for sure ?
I think RSB just gave an excellent explaination of why a set distance is not good for Pa...
didn't you read his post ????
If you are a property owner I hope you realize that a "set distance" could give a neighbor a way to keep you from hunting sections on your own porperty !!!!!
If you are a property owner I hope you realize that a "set distance" could give a neighbor a way to keep you from hunting sections on your own porperty !!!!! Actually a set distance would be to my advantage. No guess work involved !!!!!!
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retired guy
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 15:58:11
(permalink)
OA---THANKS for sending that article---WOW That does NOT happen here in CT.- not anything like that at all-period. Hope the writer did his homework and its factual- actually hope its NOT. That kinda stuff leaves one ripe for all kinda stuff. IN Ct Court fines go directly to the State never to the Police Dept. Also fines for local ordinance violations go to the local General fund - NOT to the Police. The Police get their annual budget with NO bump incentives for violations. I know cause I set their budget along with my peers each year. Same in all Cities here. That makes our system clean with No validity to accusations of ticketing for Quotas or self enrichment. That being said the State Law Enforcement agencies answer to a different master, however having worked numerous combined task forces and a combined undercover Unit for some time I must say I NEVER heard of anything like that here in Ct Nor with any of the Federal agencies I worked with. The article was in reference to an Ohio action and I frankly did not like the tone of it at all- Police here going out to make pinches to improve their own overall budget is simply unheard of -and should be. Was down South a number of times on the job and observed things there that I didnt like either with that elected Sheriff system. Their Sheriffs are like a Police Chief in the Northern States. Leaves one to wonder what ya gotta do to be popular and get elected- same kinda issues pop up. All this leads to one thing- Know what it is in YOUR state before jumping to conclusions about the managements priorities and political directives --do this before conclusions bout LE's reasons for the way they act as the stories one hears may NOT be applicable in your area. Do ya blame the carpenter when his boss gives him pine instead of fir or the roofer when he is assigned to do a roof with 20 yr shingles stead of 40s.
post edited by retired guy - 2011/07/18 16:05:03
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deerfly
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 16:25:36
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ORIGINAL: spoonchucker
" I also have a problem with the PGC condoning and supporting methods that are in direct violation of the code."
Care to cite an example of this?
The code states that the only legal method for hunting turkeys both in the spring and fall, yet they condone the use of dogs in the fall season. Furthermore,there was an article in the PGN about a pheasant hunter whose dog flushed a turkey and the hunter killed it and there was nothing in the article indicating the hunter harvested that bird illegally.
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 16:30:58
(permalink)
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deerfly
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 16:34:24
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If you are a property owner I hope you realize that a "set distance" could give a neighbor a way to keep you from hunting sections on your own porperty !!!!! But, with no set distance a WCO could post as much of your land as he saw fit. If a WCO couldn't prove who placed the bait he might decide that you placed on the neighbors property in an attempt to avoid be prosecuted for hunting over bait.
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bingsbaits
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 16:39:46
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
BTW some states have a set distance from a bait station, why not Pa? Who knows for sure ?
I think RSB just gave an excellent explaination of why a set distance is not good for Pa...
didn't you read his post ????
If you are a property owner I hope you realize that a "set distance" could give a neighbor a way to keep you from hunting sections on your own porperty !!!!!
He could do that now Doc. Just find the main deer trail and bait it. You could be half a mile away on the trail and get pinched. Did it with a bear hunter. I suggested that exact scenerio to a fella I know. He inherited a farm that the rich fella next door wants. So he has spent thousands of dollars in court trying to steal this buddies farm. He has very deep pockets. With his 3-4 huge high houses on the property line he could be shut down with a couple bags of corn, and would rightly deserve it. Trying to steal a mans land just doesn't cut it...
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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spoonchucker
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 17:06:21
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As RSB stated, it is LEGAL to use dogs in the fall. Since the dogs are used to bust the flock, then the hunter calls them back together at/near his steup. The hunter is LEGALLY "hunting by calling".
In the case of the Pheasant hunter. He was not hunting Turkey by any method, circumstances alone afforded him the opportunity to harvest the bird.
Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference. Step Up, or Step Aside The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody. GL
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 17:16:31
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: spoonchucker
As RSB stated, it is LEGAL to use dogs in the fall. Since the dogs are used to bust the flock, then the hunter calls them back together at/near his steup. The hunter is LEGALLY "hunting by calling".
In the case of the Pheasant hunter. He was not hunting Turkey by any method, circumstances alone afforded him the opportunity to harvest the bird.
Wouldn't the dog have to first "stalk" the flock of birds before flushing them ? Hummmmmmmm ? Another vague law with a loop hole you supose?
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spoonchucker
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 17:38:11
(permalink)
"Wouldn't the dog have to first "stalk" the flock of birds before flushing them ?"
Not at all. Many times a hunter can't call them all the way in. Maybe they will come within a hundred yards, but no closer. Send the dogs in to bust them, set up over the ridge and start calling.
"Another vague law with a loop hole you supose?"
Not at all. But I suppose if I was desperate to find some fault with eveything, or dream up some scenario with a thousand what ifs. I might convince myself, but few others.
Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference. Step Up, or Step Aside The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody. GL
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deerfly
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 17:47:41
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As RSB stated, it is LEGAL to use dogs in the fall. Since the dogs are used to bust the flock, then the hunter calls them back together at/near his steup. The hunter is LEGALLY "hunting by calling".
That is simply RSB's interpretation of the law and he is flat out wrong. On page 33 of the 2010 Digest it states that" Dogs can be used to hunt turkeys in the fall but not in the spring." It does not say dogs can only be used for flushing turkeys to break up a flock, it doe snot say it is illegal to shoot the birds when they are flushed and it does not state that the birds can only be harvested by calling!!! In the case of the Pheasant hunter. He was not hunting Turkey by any method, circumstances alone afforded him the opportunity to harvest the bird. Wrong again. There is no exemption in the law for harvest opportunities that may occur while small game hunting. Just because the hunter had the opportunity doesn't mean he had to shoot that bird. If what you claimed was true, then all hunters in the fall could hunt turkeys anyway they chose simply by claiming they were hunting small game instead of turkeys.
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 17:54:45
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ORIGINAL: spoonchucker
"Wouldn't the dog have to first "stalk" the flock of birds before flushing them ?"
Not at all. Many times a hunter can't call them all the way in. Maybe they will come within a hundred yards, but no closer. Send the dogs in to bust them, set up over the ridge and start calling.
"Another vague law with a loop hole you supose?"
Not at all. But I suppose if I was desperate to find some fault with eveything, or dream up some scenario with a thousand what ifs. I might convince myself, but few others.
My quote waS a JOKE ! GET IT, OR DON'T YOU EVER JOKE ??
post edited by Outdoor Adventures - 2011/07/18 17:56:42
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spoonchucker
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 18:00:36
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Very difficult to read it as "a joke". Especiall with the snippy remark that followed.
"Hummmmmmmm ? Another vague law with a loop hole you supose?"
Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference. Step Up, or Step Aside The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody. GL
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spoonchucker
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 18:05:55
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Deer,
You made this statement to infer the PGC was condoning illegal tactics "The code states that the only legal method for hunting turkeys both in the spring and fall, yet they condone the use of dogs in the fall season.".
Then cite where the use of dogs is LEGAL in the fall. So, which is it?
And as I stated. Those using dogs ARE hunting by calling.
Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference. Step Up, or Step Aside The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody. GL
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deerfly
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 18:28:00
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And as I stated. Those using dogs ARE hunting by calling. That is only your opinion!! There is nothing in the Digest that states that the dogs can only be used to break up a flock or that it is illegal to shoot a turkey that is flushed by the dogs without calling. Allowing the use of dogs in the fall with no restrictions on how and when a turkey can be harvested is a direct violation of the code that states that the only legal method of hunting and harvesting turkeys is by calling.
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 18:29:11
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[image]  [/image] Iv'e been thinking of getting on of dem dare turkey dawgs. Would it be considered a live decoy ? Easy now Spooner its only a joke. Slowing lay the gun down.
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retired guy
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 20:14:04
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Now THATS funny Does it come when ya call it? Can it fly?
post edited by retired guy - 2011/07/18 20:17:09
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Ironhed
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RE: Trail cams on SGL.
2011/07/18 20:18:16
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My quote waS a JOKE ! GET IT, OR DON'T YOU EVER JOKE ?? Boy, you sure do joke around quite a bit on these forums... Ironhed
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