ORIGINAL: deerfly

There is no set distance in the example you are using though once a person sights the game and attempts to take it after having been on an ATV it sure does open it up for an investigation and the potential for charges depending on the evidence of that investigation.
 

In the case where you got a conviction,would you have filed charges for using a motorized vehicle if the area wasn't off limits for ATVs? If so, what would have been the basis for that citation?

Even though in some cases it would be perfectly legal to stop, go the 25 yards off the roadway and hunt it I simply don’t need a piece of game that bad.

Except for posted ground and safety zones,what else would make it illegal to stop and attempt to harvest legal game based on the regulation?

 
In the case where I have been following an ATV for a long distance and they never got off the machine until it was obvious they had seen or perhaps even already shot a deer before they got off the machine they are certainly suspect of using a motor vehicle to hunt. Especially when they managed to shoot two deer on the trip, as my guy did, and never got off the ATV while making two trips out and back except to gut and drag the deer to the ATV.
 
If they had once had the ATV parked, came back to it and then been on their way back to camp or their house when they saw a deer, walked a respectable distance from it before shooting I might not cite them. Other factors that will enter my decision would be how they haul their gun. Is it loaded, is it on their lap, is it in a case, how easy it is to access and put into operation are all among the many factors I will evaluate before making a decision on whether there is sufficient evidence they are using a motor vehicle to hunt.
 
Anytime a person is using a motor vehicle to locate and attempt to take game they are in violation. It becomes the Officer’s obligation to prove those elements in court but we will look at all the available evidence to see it that amount of evidence is present.  
 
R.S. Bodenhorn    

I guess by deerfly's examples if I drive to the SGL I have used my vehicle to aid or abet in the taking of game

I guess you would have to walk or ride a horse or bicycle to the property and then hunt ...

let's see what crazy question/situation I can come up with 0h okay.. here we go ===


Can I hunt from horseback on private property and carry a loaded gun and still be legal????

ORIGINAL: deerfly
The PGC just choses to apply different standards in different situations which leads to the confusion and uncertainty expressed in this thread.

Maybe it is just you.   A relative of mine just got pulled over for doing 67 in a 55 zone.  Did she get a ticket or not?   That darn uncertainty is horrible ain't it. 

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

There is nothing in the regs that would indicate that using a motor vehicle to drive to a SGL,would be a violation.

that was my point and there is also NOTHING that states this is a violation either..

Any hunter that sights game from a motorized vehicle,whether it is from a car, truck or ATV has in fact used a motor vehicle to aid or abet in the taking of game.

Driving and seeing game along the road is no violation of anything either... it's called "spotting/seeing" deer around here ... it's not hunting in any way .... if you do not stop you are not pursuing or hunting.. just driving..

quote:

Any hunter that sights game from a motorized vehicle,whether it is from a car, truck or ATV has in fact used a motor vehicle to aid or abet in the taking of game.


Driving and seeing game along the road is no violation of anything either... it's called "spotting/seeing" deer around here ... it's not hunting in any way .... if you do not stop you are not pursuing or hunting.. just driving..

Of course ,if the hunter does not stop and attempt to harvest the game,he is not using a motor vehicle to aid or abet in harvesting game. However, if he sights the game while driving a motor vehicle , and attempts to harvest it, he did in fact use a motor vehicle to aid or abet in harvesting game, even if that was that his initial intent.

If it ain't too hard to figure out, can you tell us whether either hunter or both hunters are in violation of the PA code regarding the use of a motor vehicle?

I see no difference if one rides a ATV, mini bike, Jeep,horse,bicycle,golf cart,or skate board. It's all about fair chase and Is solely up to the hunter to decide if he prefers the aid of such to harvest wild game. Very tough to cite and prove unless one has hard evidence and is actual caught shooting at wild game from a motorized vehicle. No law says you can't ride a ATV with a loaded weapon in Pa. No law says you can ride your ATV during the hunting season either in Pa. I ride an ATV all year round and patrol properties during the hunting season. If I push deer into the next property and some one shoots it, is this illegal? NO!

The court obviously don't consider these laws too vague, or confusing. Otherwise they would have struck them down.

Now we are talking public saftey at stake. How does that compare to hunting wild game ?

    Some guys wanna hunt and apparently there are  some who just wanna shoot somethin.
  Always been that way and unfortunately always probably will.
  Personally like to hang with the 'wanna hunt' crowd.
  Those always trying to make 'fine lines' may be someplace in the middle or just trying to act like they are real  hunters.
    Whatever they are they are around no matter where ya go and they always try and make it sound like the fine lines they are pushing are OK.
   Wellll maybe they can fine line the laws but HUNTERS know the difference. Ya dont hafta explain it to em or write it down- they KNOW. Some stuff just dont pass the smell test-period.
  If somebody wants to do it that way thats OK by me they bought a tag too- just dont do it  near me or get in my way.  Fortunately, ya get to choose who ya hunt with.

This is the answer he provided you. You simply chose to ignore it, so as to continue your endless arguement(s).

The answer to your question depends on some other factors.

It is always illegal to use a motor vehicle for the intended purpose of locating and attempting to harvest game. An example of that would be the person the Officer has been following or observed on several roads driving slowly watching out the window. Perhaps pulling over to the wrong side of the road and driving along where they look down over an embankment or stopping to stick a gun out the window to scope game. Then when they finally see legal game even if they get out and walk 25 yards off the road they might still be cited if the WCO feels comfortable with the amount of evidence and/or testimony they can present to the court.

If a person is just traveling from one spot to another though, perhaps on their way home or to another hunting spot and they sight game they can legally park, walk 25 yards off of the roadway and legally take or attempt to take the game.

There are a couple of good court opinions that pretty well set down what the courts will view as road hunting and the WCOs will pretty much be guided by those court opinions on when to cite a person for using a motor vehicle to hunt. Of course anytime a person shoots from the vehicle or the roadway after alighting from a motor vehicle it is a clear violation.

R.S. Bodenhorn

"That simply is not true. A court only strikes down a law if the validity of the law is challenged. They do not strike down a law based on individual cases."

Incorrect. Challenges to law are often the result of a court ruling on an individual case. If a person is cited for "road hunting" they can take their case to court. The valdity of the law, might very well be the defense they ( or their attorney ) offers. The court can find them guilty, or not. It could ALSO dismiss the case on the grounds that the law is too vague. At which time it could order the state to re-write (clarify) the law. It can also injoin the state from enforcing the law as written. At which point it would be up to the state to either comply ( re-write the law ), or appeal. They could also appeal to stay the judge's injunction on enforcement, until their appeal on the law itself is heard.

   I would suppose we could go on forever picking out different types of motorized vehicles here but the POINT is exactly the same.
Are you a 'road hunter' or a HUNTER. No different than wether the boat or space capsul is' under way' by power other than muscular.
  Frankly I suspect that Deerfly is a HUNTER who enjoys testing the waters that are presented here. Have read too much of his stuff to believe otherwise.
  Dont know what State Spoon is from but after a lifetime of L/E he is right on target here in Ct and I would suppose most everywhere else too.

Frankly I suspect that Deerfly is a HUNTER who enjoys testing the waters that are presented here. Have read too much of his stuff to believe otherwise.
Dont know what State Spoon is from but after a lifetime of L/E he is right on target here in Ct and I would suppose most everywhere else too.

From 1980 to the present I have owned an ATV and property with numerous ATV trails. During that period I have never harvested or attempted to harvest any game animal observed while riding my ATV. Just last year during the late season I had a doe and two fawns that would let me ride my ATV within 20 yds. of where they were bedded while I was cutting firewood and even though I hadn't harvested a deer, I made no attempt to harvest those deer. As a result we have one doe with triplets and another doe with fawns.

ORIGINAL: deerfly

Why are you here?

 
Actually here a lot less as of late.  Not what it used to be for many reasons.

ORIGINAL: retired guy

   I would suppose we could go on forever picking out different types of motorized vehicles here but the POINT is exactly the same.
Are you a 'road hunter' or a HUNTER. No different than wether the boat or space capsul is' under way' by power other than muscular.
  Frankly I suspect that Deerfly is a HUNTER who enjoys testing the waters that are presented here. Have read too much of his stuff to believe otherwise.
Dont know what State Spoon is from but after a lifetime of L/E he is right on target here in Ct and I would suppose most everywhere else too.

 
Actually, near Lake Raystown, because much of the Terrace Mountain side is only accessible by boat, turkey fishing is quite popular in the spring.  Hunters/fishermen fish for bass while using a mouth call to try to locate a spring gobbler.  Once one is located, they leave the boat and set up in order to attempt to call in the gobbler or they just use the boat as a blind (turkeys are quite accustomed to boats there) and call right from the boat.
 
Is this really any different than walking ridges to try to locate a bird?  Is it really any different than using a ground blind?
 
Because of the inaccessibility by the PGC WCO, they don't get involved.  The PFBC WCO sees no issue with it and it is "policy" to permit this activity, even though while bass fishing/location calling, the hunter/angler is using a trolling motor.
 
Since I don't turkey hunt, I don't have a position on this.

We were fishing Eaton Res. about ten years ago and heard a gobbler up in the woods. The fella with me had a mouth call in his pocket and started to call to the bird. He came a runnin and gobblin the whole way down to the shore.
Tough harvest though with a baitcaster..