Retired Guy
DarDys
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Retired Guy
"Hey Dar, Just a FYI- dont even know the answer here in my state. Is a planted field that goes unharvested a baited area ? Or is it just a specific planted food plot thats illegal in and of itself ? No matter what the size 15 x 15 or a few acres. I know they sell 'food plot' seed in all the magazines and feed stores as well as the big outdoor places. They must be making a buck cause they all sell it. Lots of the Hero shot TV shows have guys in little raised up houses shooting over those big fields of deer feed too-heck there is even one TV show that bears the name of the product. Many clubs and 'for profit' places also plant seed crop to hold the birds. Perhaps it is seen differently if ya have the bucks and land to plant a number of acres as compared to 'average Joe' who goes out and plants a 10 x 10. We all hunt deer where they travel and eat and it can be pretty subjective sometimes considering whats 'over the edge'. Dont do it myself but know guys who do. Used to get a nice deer or two over a harvested corn field that had been underplanted with alfalfa. It may be that the Alfalfa had reseeded in the course of crop rotation too but there was always some left standing and the Deer came to it. That was the course of 'normal' farming practices and I saw absolutley no reason not to hunt there." I didn't get to answer this before the other thread was locked. I really don't know. Except for two hunts last season (the first season I had permission to hunt this property) lasting a total of about 3-5 hours at the property with the beet plot that I described and one hunt the year before, lasting about 45 minutes, and one hunt this season, lasting about an hour, at my neighbor's farm, all my almost 40 years of PA deer hunting has been for mountain deer with no chance of agrarian planting influence, so I never really paid any attention to the regualtions -- they simply did not pertain to me at all. And, realistically, I still don't think that they do. At the property with the beets, the owner plants them and at some point after they freeze, he harvests them. Do they attract deer? Yep. Are they planted soley to attract deer? Nope. Neither is the Milo that is planted to feed the phesants, but I imagine that it does as well. Maybe he should stop farming altogether or having deer killed off the property altogether. As for my neighbor, he is done farming by the time deer season comes around. Last year, he did plant about 1/4 acre of commercially sold deer grasses. Why? So that he could keep deer in the fartherest reaches of his property and away from his crops -- he makes his living as a truck farmer and every pepper plant, tomato plant, ear of corn, stawberry, onion, beet, radish, watermellon, cantelope, pumkin, etc. that a deer destroys is money right out of his pocket. He decided to do the planting instead of what his father wanted him to do which is "sit out every evening and shoot every one of those bast***s that you can."
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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retired guy
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RE: Retired Guy
2011/06/20 12:20:20
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Dar- Thanks for the reply-much appreciated. I am pretty much in the same boat as you with the manner I now hunt deer- I hunt a wooded ridge 2 with no agriculture save an old hay field that sometimes is harvested and sometimes not nearby. Unfortunately it is a VERY small place. The poachers on the other acres keep the deer moving my way on regular occasion though and they dont dare come over to my side. Mine is a great day bedding area if ya keep quiet and move easy. In order to get larger I must go to State property or to an Uncles small farm across the State. Used to have properties all over and some quite large - Urban sprawl killed all that. A Cousins large farm ( now all houses) had an acre of beets each year along a hedgerow in an old pasture that I NEVER knew about for years hunting that place- just by chance I never took a deer near that spot. Went nuts thinking bout the legalities when I found out bout it though. He never harvested it and said it was there just so he could see the deer now and again from the house. He was a closed mouth old Yankee and didnt want his SPOT known to anyone. What a difference in my place upstate NY -can walk all day- no issues. (cept for the OLD GUY drag) , but then they let ya cut up in the woods too. Hunted a farm near my home for a long time and the owner put in MILO as a cash crop one year. The Deer wouldnt even leave that field when it was being cut- it was only a 5 acre field and it brought in a ton of deer.. Even after the harvest enough grew back to have Deer in it most anytime you looked-It was comical cause it had houses on 3 sides and a road passing by but those Deer LOVED that stuff. They never planted it again cause it didnt pay off but it was neat to see. Took 2 bow Deer there and never even considered it baiting- normal agriculture. Thanks again for the considerate response.
post edited by retired guy - 2011/06/20 12:30:10
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Esox_Hunter
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RE: Retired Guy
2011/06/20 13:07:47
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Here is what the 2011 PA Hunting and Trapping Digest has to say regarding 'baiting': Taking Advantage of Food or Bait: It is unlawful to hunt in or around any area where artificial or natural bait, food, hay, grain, fruit, nuts, salt, chemicals or minerals, including their residues, are used, or have been used within the past 30 days, as an enticement to lure game or wildlife regardless of the type or quantity. Hunters are responsible for ensuring that the hunting area has not been baited before they begin hunting. They should physically inspect the area and question landowners, guides and caretakers. This section does not pertain to hunting near areas where accepted farming or habitat management practices are taking place (example: hunting near food plots on game lands is legal). Any natural or manmade nonliving bait can be used to attract coyotes for hunting or trapping.
post edited by Esox_Hunter - 2011/06/20 13:09:53
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retired guy
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RE: Retired Guy
2011/06/20 13:21:08
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ESOX_ That is a reasonable common sense law that in all probability could or should be in place wherever we hunt. Also a great way to approach the condition if the laws where ya go aren't specific enough. The only exceptions of course are where baiting IS permitted and often encouraged due to local conditions- I haven't done it but can uderstand it in some cases.
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RE: Retired Guy
2011/06/20 13:41:55
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"Hunters are responsible for ensuring that the hunting area has not been baited before they begin hunting. They should physically inspect the area and question landowners" This is what bothers me. A hunter enters the game lands, NF or other public property and sets up on a trail.Later he finds out after getting a citation that the adjoining private property owner who has his place posted is putting out bait and attracting deer from the public property. The deer are traveling from public to private and vise versa and the hunter has no idea of this. Is this right ?
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retired guy
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RE: Retired Guy
2011/06/20 14:14:48
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Agree in concept- ya will NEVER find a cleverly placed bait-heck they even got that corn holder that looks like a tree stump. As past L/E can understand the why of the law- everyone caught would say IIIIII didnt Knooooow and then hide the corn bags in their pickup. There is still the need for somebody to say ya were negligent or somehow had knowledge- Simply NOT a reaonable thing for a guy to have had to peek behind each bush, swamp and deadfall on a square mile of forest. Or to have walked each and every spot in a series of fields to Search his area. Any reasonable common sense L/E would know that stuff and in all likelihood use common sense. ( have worked with an exception or two but even the courts get to know those guys very quickly)
post edited by retired guy - 2011/06/20 14:46:24
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Retired Guy
2011/06/20 16:02:12
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Any reasonable common sense L/E would know that stuff and in all likelihood use common sense. GREAT POINT retired guy... MOST Pa WCOs are just that ... most of the "tales" about guys getting busted for hunting over bait have been embellished by the law breaker,. The stories about baiting that I have heard from the WCOs are just about 90% of the time a story of a guy sitting in a tree stand or sitting within 100 yards of a baited area or especially a bait pile.... Many times the WCO is already there waiting for the hunter even before the guy gets there...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/06/20 16:06:03
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deerfly
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RE: Retired Guy
2011/06/20 17:54:21
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The stories about baiting that I have heard from the WCOs are just about 90% of the time a story of a guy sitting in a tree stand or sitting within 100 yards of a baited area or especially a bait pile.... The reason for that is you only hear about the cases that are successfully prosecuted. The PGC doesn't advertise the cases they lose or the cases where they don't have enough evidence to file charges. One potential problem with the baiting regs is that an anti-hunter can use them to shut down hunting on adjoining properties. For example, if an anti-hunter owned 10 acres and placed piles of corn on all for sides of his property, he would in effect make 300 or more yds of the adjoining properties off limits to all hunting. The solution to this problem would be for the legislature to make all feeding of wildlife,except elevated bird feeders, illegal during hunting season.
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RE: Retired Guy
2011/06/20 18:04:41
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You are exactly right deerfly ! Of course some will never get this through their head.
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retired guy
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RE: Retired Guy
2011/06/20 22:00:51
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If you read my Anti post you will know how I feel bout them. They do some seriously bothersome stuff. Around here they used to bid on State Land Trapping areas regularly-and they bid high enough to buy the annual rights to trap- which they of course never did. State finally said it was only legal for real trappers to bid and anyone NOT trapping would immediatley loose their standing. Recall that TV ( the hard way) bow hunter who shot a great Griz up in Alaska and later reported the Antis had purchased the Hunting rights to the place. They and their kind are NOT to be trusted. They are trying to STOP our way of life.
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