Ok New Topic > SR

The SR??? = BOTH----u just returned from a WC fishery where the fish in the pics fit in ur hand. The ONLY way the SR can b real world class is to give the DEC the support(ie local judges,ect) it needs to clean it up.This will b fought tooth and nail by the local Bizz(most anyway)----still it aint half bad.

There was a member here some time ago, when talking about the erie steelhead fishery and its issues, said if you build it, they will come.  How true.
 
The SR has something most streams don't; quality and quantity which makes it WC and a toilet.   Which one weighs more heavily for an individual is perhaps all in expectations and perception.  

Tuna--glad you started this thread (troublemaker)
    First - you CANNOT legislate common sense or civility-so we are stuck with the slobs. Yes more can be arrested but it will not stop the problem ( 28 yrs of LE tells me that )
    Second-this fishery was NEVER designed -from what I have seen with well over 30 years on the SR - to be a little used pristine place of peace and contentment. If thats what your after go someplace where ya gotta pack or canoe into. You may well be catching stocked fish there too.
  Third - this fishery is -as I see it- a means of creating a condition along the entire Great Lake system of put and take fishing of a high enough quality so as to create a much needed fiscal boon to local economies. In this regard it has been a great sucuss story on all of the Lakes. Remember BEFORE the put and take there was little anyone fished for anymore in the entire system.
   Fourth- if anybody comes up here thinking they are gonna be alone on the water during the PEAK season they are in for a big surprise when THEY show up and slash and burn the whole place for a few weeks. We all gotta deal with the reality of the condition and make the most of it- a tough job sometimes.
    Fifth- This place is GREAT- my uncle has fished Alaska many times and said the conditions are quite similar in the easy to reach areas. Again its different way off the beaten path but even in Alaska its put and take as most of the Guide leases have private hatcherys even on those far away rivers ya fly into. The most important observation he makes is that the quality of fish here is equal, at the least, to Alaska.
    Sixth -  With the QUALITY of fish here being outstanding and becoming year round we now enjoy opportunities to fish alone on the river well beyond Shark season.. This is much to the credit of those folks at the Hatchery who are working like crazy to supply new and increased availability of a great variety of wonderful fishes.
     Seventh-and last-One can grow weary of those who bemoan the 'out of staters' who more or less get in the way of nice fishing conditions. Also those who fight and argue over thier personal preferences of  fishing style demeaning all others as some kinda 'dont belong' people. Also the continued acces isues along the river by folks who have grown 'tired' of fishermen even though they have likely provided a portion of the fiscal enjoyment those same people now enjoy, leading to VERY congested fishing in many areas. This infighting can be dangerous and lead to further "issues' not in our ultimate favor. WHO do they think is paying the bills?
    Yea guys it aint grandpas Native stream out by the pasture but its the best thing we got as close as it is for most of us. This is an everymans Alaska and it is hard if not impossible to beat in the lower 48. Ya just gotta know what your in for at certain times of the year and bear it.
    Nooooo- I did not drink the Kool Aid that certainly being offered - these are observations from somebody who loves to fish and has done so in many places and just knows a good thing when he sees it. Enough to have bought a place up there and spend a great deal of time there too. Like the place , the fishing and the folks.
    My personal wish as a way to improve conditions without throwing any stones is to STOP selling this as a place to fill your trunk with big fish. Sell it as a quality system where -if lucky and/or skilled enough- you may catch the fish of a lifetime. Unfortunately its those making the most direct cash on the system who perpetuate this fill the trunk philosophy which I believe leads to many of the "issues' we face.

It is a sad sad commentary that a newcomer like myself has to reserve the largest pocket in my vest to carrying out other people's trash.

Enforce $1000 snagging fines and make a effort to educate people to the fact that Salmon will HIT a properly presented fly/lure/bait would go a long way to make the SR and all tribs world class.
Littering is a problem that is every where,look at the junk along our highways.A deposit on all cans,bottles (glass or plastic) would help,but you still have all those coffee cups that slobs drop when they are empty.

ORIGINAL: metalslayer

ORIGINAL: draketrutta

The DEC (via its overzealous Steelhead stocking program and thirst for more $$)has turned the SR into an Erie Cookie-Cutter fishery.. I VOTE TOILET BOWL.

Like the Pineville Bridge, the SR's best days are history.

Fairly certain the stocking levels have remained pretty much the same due to capacity at the Hatchery. Seems that more are surviving(for whatever reason) though.Late 80's, early 90's there was BOTH #'s AND size.

All I know is that a SR fisherperson has a better chance of winning the Powerball -vs-
catching a coveted 20lber.

A few short years ago, you stood a half-arsed chance.

Now it's 6-10lb cookies for the most part.

******
Yeah - you are probably right about the stocking,

the nitwits that lobbied for a 1 fish limit in the tribs

(thinking they are saving a pristine example of Nature in Virgin Mother Earth Country
-vs- a NYS Pellet-head Stocked in a Man-Made Cash Register Suburban Tailwater)

are more to blame....


p.s. - scratch the pellet-head reference...
.
.
.
.
make that bead-head...

so easy a caveman can do it

     I remember back when there were lots of Steel AND some were quite big. Then they seemed to crash and then start to come back only to seem to crash again. ( that over a period of several decades). They are certainly on the rebound now. Those comeback eras always held more small fish obviously as the stock was on the rebound.
   Makes me wonder if there is some kind of climate or water level 'tipping point' where as they reach a certain number the Natural spawn really kicks in and the return numbers increase dramatically a year or two later, as the 'natural' kind of makes up for normal predation and loss of stocked numbers.
  It would probably take another year or two after that for Steel of considerable size to reappear in any regular numbers.
  If thats correct ( anyones guess) those 6 to 8 pounders will be returning much larger and there will be new 6 to 8ts. Ontario is pretty big and there seems to be no reason whatsoever that would make the fish stop growing out there unless the bait resources prohibit normal feeding as I recall happened a number of years ago after the big drought.
   Back then some marinas couldnt even get boats out to the lake and a lot of baitfish spawn areas were high and dry.That led to some lean fish years.
If this is correct I would hope to be around long enough to experience the Atlantic numbers when they reach that "point' they are already increasing slowly.  
   BTW- just looked over the Whitakers photos and some of those Steel from 2011 were pretty respectable. Maybee not 20 yet, but pretty respectable.

I just joined, have lurked for awhile. I fished  mid-Nov. to April 1 and had a blast this year using deadstick nymphing. I've fished for decades  in many blue ribbon places and have caught wild steel. I had some mid-week days where the only thing that seemed to be missing were the bears. Even when there were people around, I made friends, had my lunch bought for me a couple of times, netted some big fish for guys NOT flyfishing, laughed til I nearly fell in  and my wife filled a backpack with garbage almost everytime we went without a fresh snow.  I guess because I have expensive equipment and flyfish I'm already considered an a-hole, but like I said we had a blast. I had some great conversations with people using every technique on the river. I fished salmon 25 years ago and decided it was a toilet. I guess maybe age does bring some wisdom, even to jerks with fly rods.    World Class for me.
 
Charlie
 

hey thanks to all for making this topic informational.. Like I said it don’t matter what one wears or uses that makes a person a better sportsman.. To me it's (yes I’ll use that word) Ethics !! Some have them some never will..
What puts it in the Toilet for me is that you can lead a Horse to Water but You cant make him drink..
so much good education has been put forth , be it good folks on the river sharing their knowledge, the dec , the tons seminars at the hatchery and yes even the internet.. But still The Garbage piles up, the illegal activity continues and the disrespect to other anglers..

Now Money was brought up.. Makes no difference and really I think it makes it worse.. Just think about someone who because they had to pay higher fees for licenses, guides included, or pay to fish an area.. Many times that is where they feel they are owed something in return , by any means.. It happens... Even in the DSR , even with the people working there turning a blind eye.. Been there for a long time so don't say it don't..

The Point made I like and lobbied for is higher fines .. Sudsy : you are a bit steep but pretty much in the ballpark..


Slayer:
Yes they have increased the steelhead numbers stocked over the years..

Pa:
like said above education has been done almost to exhaustion.. Dec even had a video one could obtain for free..

RT:
You definitely have the right attitude..

Sorry folks I'd like to contribute more but I'm deep into sheetrock and joint compound and the wife says dinner is done..

I'll Be Back !!

First I would like to welcome Charlie to the forum.
Tuna,I have never seen anything from the DEC about ethical Salmon fishing.They have all the rules,weight 4' from hook,etc. but nothing about how to or they will hit if you FISH for them.Most people are there and gone and don't hear or see any notices on education.
First a $1000 fine enforced and made known that it will be enforced will get the attention of many.The DEC should have literature that is handed out when a license is purchased,there are many that will at least look at it and consider changing their ways.
I have had first hand experience in bringing some people over from the dark side.I have approached and been approached by people that wanted to know what they are doing wrong and showed them some ideas that soon had them feeling the take and setting the hook.The smiles and thanks were very rewarding.I find that many want to catch these great game fish ethically,they just don't know the proper way to present their offering.

RT - as far as littering goes - flippin a cig butt is unacceptable behavior. I'm a smoker, not much effort involved to flip off the ash and put the butts in a pocket.

Garbage cans in parking lots...yeah,yeah I know all the excuses from the past - peoples toss fish carcusses in them, yada,yada.
People don't use them. (They will never use them if they are not there!!)

I think it is shameful that Pulaski/Altmar/DEC contingent cannot stage trash cans in every parking lot and have them emptied on a regular basis - whether it be a municipal service, a retired guy with a pickup truck, or god forbid - DEC themselves.
(The excuse of no-fundage is unacceptable - we are talking peanuts).

As far as your socially-acceptable level -vs- Komplete Kontrol by Big Brother/LE - the way I see it - I think I better brush up on my German language skills (as soon as I re-locate my stash buried in PVC pipes)..

later

ps - welcome aboard Charlie!!

   Unfortunately here in the US we always want to make all pay for the bad actions of the few.  Actually all that does is make the slobs feel more justified cause they have now PAID to litter. Make THEM pay the bills.
  L/E in this condition is not a great expensive proposition depending on how its done. YES we all would like to see big fines cause we would like great impact and immediate recognition of the issue however a local constable can issue tickets for local ordinance if nothing else.
  Here in Ct a local ordinance may only be for a minimal amount of dollars on the ticket however failure to pay leads to a criminal arrest warrant. Imagine a guy with a $25 to $50 ticket coming up the next year and having to be arrested and suffer loss of liscense as well as the "old fine'.
  Ya gotta remember the Local ordinance is a different animal than the State arrest. The State thing gives nothing back to the town and can be very large- but it goes to the state. If the Towns get immediate dollars here -even though smaller numbers- they are far more likely to get involved quicker.             Betcha they already have the ordinances made up and enforceable and simply arent doing big enforcement.
The local constable can be anybody qualified in the area ( jobs) and he is unlikely to have to go to other calls and responses while assigned to litterbug duty.
In a condition like we have now on S/R the town output for the constable would be quickly reimbursed with the rapid mail ins of many such fines. Lets face it the majority of 'the issue' is during shark season. Id bet a dedicated guy could easily make 8 to 10 tickets a day then- remember hes gotta catch them write them up and probably keep and tag some evidence along with some kind of quick report, then move on to the next-can take more time than you initially think.
   I like the idea of a mandatory notice of the action being handed out at each lisense station as well and would like to have ALL the local shops and eateries and hotels also have to post it right by the door
   Education comes  right to the forefront here.

  Still dont like the extra fee thing in an effort to get somebody to enforce existing laws. Just does NOT set right with me.
   Not being cheap here -spend a ton up there not to mention a 6oo mile round trip every other week.
  Cant figure extra for tribs either- Imajine that catching on all over the whole state. For deer too, hey how bout a deer and turkey fee for each SF. That still does not entice an effort to get the job done that we are talking bout here -just fattens accounts.
   Nope -experience over a whole life of l/e and politics says the squeaky wheel gets the grease- Letters to the State and calls to reps gets them to direct l/e efforts to where the complaints are. that goes for the barrels and collections at lots too. Constant complaints equal positive action.
   The laws-personel and equipment are already in place its just the direction of the effort that needs tweaking.

Hey Tuna--

Get right down to it its ALL political ( I'm a politician) Direction of fund expenditures goes to whatever or wherever is deemed to be both necessary and needed - in the best public interest. Funding equals manpower and manpower is given its marching orders even without 'extra money' -a simple redirection of effort.
Seatbelt enforcement on the Throughway is an example-I have had numerous Troopers in unmarked pull up next to me and look over a bit- looking at my belt-they advertise it and enforce it regularly. That never used to happen. Just what we are after.
It is commonplace for public groups to lobby politely and be quite surprised at the positive response their issue gets. Politics however has to be aware of the issue itself and the desire of many for that redirection. Remember whatever they do now beyond their manpower basics also has a following.
  Selective enforcement efforts are most always in direct response to a public outcry on any particular violation.
   BTW-nasty letters and calls get you nowhere-just ruffle feathers. Also the dollar amount of a fine along with the potential jail time is determined by the 'kind of crime it is - In Ct its misdomeaner or Felony. Those big thousand or two ideas may have merit but will probably not fit the classification of that act and just make a difficult thing more involved. Keep it simple and things will get done.

DRAKE DRAKE DRAKE
No teleprompter- I have a guy who tells me everything to say or do.
The Throughway I spoke of is in NY. Even had a Trooper hiding behind the Toll guy looking for belts once. His car was parked overy by the building out of sight.
Thats 'selective enforcement".
Even with all the money woes there will always be a way to do Selective stuff for exactly the reason you stated, constituant happiness at the voting booth has merit. It should too - who are politicos there to serve in the first place. Just gotta make the condition rise to the top in a nice way.
    Year and a half to go on this term - last -gotta make more fishin time.