fishinpreacher
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Neck Grades
I started tying about 3 yrs ago, and started out by buying the most inexpensive materials I could, but I know that the quality of the material has a huge impact on the quality of the fly. So I would like to begin to replace some of my cheap necks with some higher quality necks. My questions are in your opinions which produces better necks, Whiting or Metz? And is the diffrence in quality in a grade 1 neck suffecient to justify the diffrence in cost over a grade 2 neck? Thanks for your input. Tight lines, and God bless.
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KJH807
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/01 13:50:52
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i like whiting... but have a hard time supporting them after the recent saddle hackle stuff
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Cold
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/01 14:07:09
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IIRC, the 'Grade' doesn't refer to feather quality, but rather feather count. That is...all of the feathers on your grade 1 and grade 2 will be of the same quality...you'll just get more of them on the grade 1. KJH, are you talking about just basically selling off all their stuff, or is there some specific incident you're referring to?
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KJH807
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/01 14:31:14
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they are re-doing products at MUCH higher prices to make money off the fad and their own mistakes the birds were already harvested.. so threre was a limited supply when things blew up in dec/jan but no we will have to pay these high prices in future years... long after the fad passes they also F-ed some harvests last year on specialty birds... so the retailers bumped prices due to low supply now the msrp got bumpped up for the next year for no reason... other than they saw retailers selling at higher prices and they (whiting) wanted a cut of the margin
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SilverKype
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/01 14:59:20
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The difference between grades is how they are cut and if they contain any blemishes. If you are tying size 24-32 fly, you need grade #1 to get those sizes, otherwise get grade #2. Grade #3 will work too but I've seen some goofy looking feathers on them. It's been a long time since I've had to buy hackle for drys. I used to use whiting. I will need a light dun and cream for next year. We'll worry about that come winter..
My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
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fishinpreacher
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/01 15:08:26
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Thanks alot fellas. I always thought the grade had to do with the quality of the hackle. So if I understand correctly, the grade refers to the number of feathers and the range of sizes on the neck?
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steely34
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/01 17:01:01
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Agreed KJ. Long after people stop wearing the saddle feathers in their hair and the shops no longer sell to beauty shops that are using them to do this.... the prices most likely will not come down. Amazing - and I agree with you that Whiting jumped on the wagon as a way to see a profit. Luckily, I have enough to last a while. I was on e-bay the other day and the prices of some of the saddles were outrageous. I still cannot believe that people are lacing the saddle feathers in their hair. Wonder how they would look on my bald spot........ As far as the original question.... the quality of necks has increased over the years. What was listed as a grade 1 years ago would probably be thrown in the trash bin now. Either way fishinpreacher - unless you tie alot of dries, I would save the $ and go with a grade two. I have some 2's and am quite happy with them. Just my opinion though.
post edited by steely34 - 2011/06/01 17:05:25
"They say you forget your troubles on a trout stream, but that's not quite it..... you begin to see where your troubles fit into the grand scheme of things, and suddenly they're just not such a big deal anymore." John Gierach
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fishenfool46
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/01 19:55:05
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fish metz has a book i think it is called all about hackle i got it out of the library.A very interesting read. also go to flyanglers.com on the left side click on fly tying than on the left of nexted page go to hen hackle and cree hackle dennis conrad gives his phone no.for you to call him you can check his hackle.hope this helps
I didn't say these are the ten suggestions signed God
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doubletaper
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/02 09:58:42
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most flies most people tie, IMO, are in the 12 to 20 range. even 20 being rare with new tiers. therefore when you look at a cape you want the most quantity of feathers near the bottom of the cape. next look at the # of barbs on those feathers, the more dense the better quality. i can't afford the gold whiting and now, with the high prices will only buy a silver if i get a deal. i like metz capes, mostly #2 cause i know what i'm looking for than whiting. i have found some great master grade keough capes for the cost. they have come a long way. i like whiting saddle hackles the best as their saddle hackle tie down to smaller sizes than most others.
post edited by doubletaper - 2011/06/02 10:09:49
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PeteM
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/02 14:01:40
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For me, grade doesn't mean as much as what I'm tying. I have a couple of sample/promo capes and necks that probably wouldn't make the cut for any retail distributor, but you can find some very nice feathers for virtually any type of tie off of them. On the other hand, some of the nicer capes will have very long quills with high barbule count, which yield 3 or 4 flies from each quill, if that is important to you.
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KJH807
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/02 14:31:54
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whiting 100 packs are also a good option
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SilverKype
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/04 16:54:48
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My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
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KJH807
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/04 23:21:26
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troutslammer
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/06 21:34:57
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less waste with the 100's too
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PeteM
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/06 22:32:31
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Hmm... I have one of those eurohackle capes in ginger. Wonder what it would fetch on the interwebz?
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SilverKype
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/06 22:33:08
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thanks fellas. I used to, but don't anymore do much tying beyond 12-16 for drys other than the occasional slate/green drake and maybe an 18 BWO.. so these make more sense. I saw flyfishers still had a bunch. Maybe the college girls missed them or they maybe don't work for their thang.
My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
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D-nymph
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/07 09:56:47
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I also use the 100 packs. They have been quality for me, I tie in the same ranges as you, silverkype.
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KJH807
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/07 10:28:59
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not to say you should empty your bank accounts... but the 100 packs will soon be hard to find since full saddles have disappeared or jumped to $500+ on ebay... the 100packs at msrp of $18 are soon to be in short supply i didn't see it, but was told a sz12 natural grizz 100 pack went for $100 on ebay last week it looks like the dyed and natural grizz are the ones being bought up... i saw40+ 100packs at the shop yesterday sz 16-22 but with the short demand and high cost... the fad will only last longer... adnd with it being about a year till new feathers hit the market who knows
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Speyfish
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/07 11:37:48
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I stopped using hackle on my dry flies a long time ago. I use only CDC feathers now and much prefer that. You do have to wash off the fish slime after catching a fish and treat them with a desiccant, but I prefer how they look and how they catch fish. The only time I use hackles now are on my steelhead flies and then I am using "spey" type hackles, not dry fly ones.
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KJH807
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/07 13:56:49
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while i use them for hackle on dries (100packs)... I am mainly using them for movement and profile on large streamers and steelhead flies
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DryflyTU
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/07 17:32:45
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I have a older Bronze/#2 Hoffman Cree saddle I have been tying caddis with for 15+ years. Just counted over 150 hackles left on it. At 3-5 EHC per hackle, I have plenty for some time, along with the other hoffman, metz and CQH necks/saddles in my stash. I mostly tie and fish compara and sparkle duns nowdays for mayfly patterns. Quick and cheap...and they work. My daughter told me about this trend early last fall. She goes to college in NYC..Parson School of Fashon Design is one of the colleges that is part of The New School, were she studies. She said the hair/feather thing is big, although she doesn't really understand the big deal. I guess having tied a few flies when she was younger jaded her perspective, thank dog.
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dano
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/08 00:34:28
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Wow, I have a #1 grade Hoffman/Whiting super saddle in grizzly that i got for $35 when the old fly shop in Erie closed. It's mostly size 10, 12 and 14 feathers. Hardly used. Maybe it's time to send it to ebay. Also have a brown #1 super saddle I purchased for the same price on the same day. DryflyTU, I'm still tying with quite a few old Hoffman #2 necks purchased in the mid 90's. Last year i finally plucked out the last of the #14 and #16 feathers off a barred ginger variant. So, I went and purchased a new whiting bronze grade neck in barred ginger. I was blown away at the length and number of 14 and smaller feathers. I should be set for....forever. Their midge saddles are also amazing. Feathers down to 24's on my dark dun.
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DarDys
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/08 11:25:49
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Back in the Stone Age when I was an under grad at Penn State, Bucky Metz used to donate his seconds, in the form of half necks, to the fly fishing class. At the end of the trimester, each student got to keep a half neck of their choice. Since a good number of them would not go on to tie beyond the class, I would infiltrate them before the last class and tell them what colors I needed. I would buy them from them after class for $5 each. Since i did this for four year sof under grad and a year of grad, i obtained a lot of necks in that manner. I bet I still have 20 or so.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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SilverKype
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/09 15:40:04
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My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
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PeteM
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/09 23:32:40
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WoW! 60 feathers for 200 bucks! I just don't get it.
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dimebrite
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RE: Neck Grades
2011/06/11 07:54:39
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Wow these prices im hearing are ridiculous. It has been many years since I've purchased any necks or even tied any dry flies. I don't know if they're still around; but we had loaded up on collins hackle farm rooster necks hen necks and saddles back in the early 90s in all different grades. They were great and still are. We often tied down to 18s with them when it came to bwo and sulphurs. And the hen necks tied excellent hairwings for salmon; saddles were great for streamers.In those days I think a grade 1 rooster neck went for no more than 50 bucks? I can't believe they are paying 100s of dollars for them now. Although I haven't been to the somerset show in years; collins was always there back in the 90s. I highly recomend collins. I don't see them selling out the way these other bigger names obviously are. Dudes; I actually just checked out collinshacklefarm.com and grade 1 necks are only 59.95... you can't beat that with a 10 weight ugly stick...
post edited by dimebrite - 2011/06/11 09:24:35
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