Pa already hunts on Sundays. The issue here is adding more species to the list that are huntable. Now who should control the list ?????

ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures

Pa already hunts on Sundays. The issue here is adding more species to the list that are huntable. Now who should control the list ?????

Any one want to explain this ??

Sunday hunting is legal in Pa. Coyotes and crows are hunted so why are hunters who hunt other species being discriminated against? I think this is more than a state wide issue and it's time for national attention. Discrimination is not acceptable anywhere ! With the PGC making the news nationally now is a good time to address hunters being discriminated against nation wide. Its time to rally, protest get national media attention and voice our views on how we are being discriminated against.

so why are hunters who hunt other species being discriminated against?

Discrimination is not acceptable anywhere

sure it is...

... look at senior citizen discounts at stores and restuarants

... senior citizens in Pa have their own October deer season

... junior hunters have their own Ars for bucks

... rifle hunters can not hunt deer in October or even during the rut.. archery hunters get that advantage.. I'd say that is (according to your post) being discriminated against if you hunt with a rifle

...people under 16 do not need a fishing license.. older folks do.. age discrimination ???

... How about Ladies night at the bars.. cheaper drinks for females

... How about employee discounts.. customers do not get them

ETC, ETC

I see lots of discrimination in today's world.. if your definition is that some folks can do something while others can't...

dis·crim·i·na·to·ry: not fair: unfairly treating a person or group of people differently from other people or groups of people

Wish the legislaters had proposed and passed a bill on NO CROSSBOWS and I bet you would be talking out of the other side of your mouth. You've got a short memory, you were dead set against them getting involved in that issue.

Wish the legislaters had proposed and passed a bill on NO CROSSBOWS and I bet you would be talking out of the other side of your mouth. You've got a short memory, you were dead set against them getting involved in that issue.

Not the way I recall it..

The legislature wanted to change the definition of a "bow" that would have allow crossbows...

I was not in favor of that way of doing it .. but I want crossbows to be legal bad enough I said if the BOC did not do it I hoped the legislature would....

Pennsylvania House Bill 2653, which would redefine the legal definition of "bow" and permit the statewide use of crossbows during archery seasons?

I will continue to disagree with you that residents of a state should drive game management.

with all due respect..

you keep saying that and that IS NOT exactly what I am saying ... the PGC should decide game(wildlife) matters and not the legislature ..

BUT there is a law against hunting on Sunday .. PERIOD --- the PGC (to my knowledge) never asked for that law or asked the legislature to pass that law.. but it is what it is...

so let he who passed (created) the law change it .. then allow the PGC to do their job and set seasons and limits species, etc... like they should be able to do... and probably would except Sundays are off limits...

and as far as I know there is no legislation to change the Sunday law.. so thus nothing for the PGC to support... If house or senate bil #XXXX comes to be then let the pgc voice their support or oppositon... but there is no bill for them to support or not support at this time....

the "ball" is in the legislatures "court" they have to make the call.

I'm startin to feel like a broken record .. I'll go with folks here..

PLEASE write to those that you think are the ones to make these decisions and voice your opinions.. even though I think it will not matter..

for the last time from me = the PGC is NOT going to ask for a change. and as I have posted there are too many legislators against Sunday hunting at this time for various reasons to suggest changing the law.... or to get it to a vote...

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

for the last time from me = the PGC is NOT going to ask for a change.

 
Roe did ask for it as the ED of the PGC. The BOC probably won't as they are split on the issue. 

ORIGINAL: Outdoor Adventures

Pa is loosing more and more hunter's and revenue. Sunday hunting will bring in more money and thats what drives our government. The way the PGC is operating and hunters decline, legislation will be bending over back wards to draw more hunters and bring more money to state. Sunday hunting will be one of those.

 
I don’t see it that way.
 
Hunters are what bring money into the sporting industry but it is the volume of hunters that bring in the money just as much as the number of days they hunt.
 
I figure Sunday hunting is going to result in lost hunting land. One of the biggest reasons hunters list as the reason they no longer hunt is the lack of places to hunt. Therefore, I believe Sunday hunting might very well result in fewer hunters, fewer places to hunt and even less hunting revenue in the long term future.
 
I am about to retire and wouldn’t mind having some additional hunting time on Sundays, except for my concerns of what it would mean for the long term future of hunting in general.
 
There is no easy answer and most certainly no winners for the Legislature or the Game Commission when the final decision is made on the subject. If we have Sunday hunting it will appear that everyone is upset with that decision and if we don’t have Sunday hunting it will appear that everyone, at least in the hunting fraternity, is upset with that decision.
 
The point the Legislature needs to be concerned with though is that only about 8% of the State’s population hunt and even they are split on the Sunday hunting issue. There is not much of a benefit, and for most only detriment, to seeing any expansion of Sunday hunting. In the long run hunters will not benefit from anything that further alienates them from a larger segment of society and I suspect Sunday hunting would create some level of addional alienation and more posted land. That would not benefit the future of hunting.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn    

Really is hard to fathom a game agency and specifically and employee of such not believing that they should only manage game six days of the week.  The antis are clapping their hands at your beliefs, Mr. Bodenhorn, that the sport is better off with politicians and the non-hunting citizens of a state managing our game 52 days of the year.

You are a ardent believer that our deer management plan is the right thing to do for hunters and the sport of hunting in this state.  That plan has resulted in more posted land and disgruntled hunters than Sunday hunting will ever create if it were legal in all existing seasons.  If the PGC does get regulatory control, Sunday hunting would most likely be expanding very slowly over a long period of time.

Forty some odd states allow Sunday hunting in all seasons.  I have a hard time believing that if it were to become illegal there, hunters and the sport of hunting would be better off.

The PGC is the Pennsylvania Game Commission and you are a Wildlife Conservation Officer in charge of protecting our wildlife and enforcing game laws.  The PGC is unable to regulate hunting on Sundays in this state.  Shameful that they do not want to.

ORIGINAL: dpms

Really is hard to fathom a game agency and specifically and employee of such not believing that they should only manage game six days of the week.  The antis are clapping their hands at your beliefs, Mr. Bodenhorn, that the sport is better off with politicians and the non-hunting citizens of a state managing our game 52 days of the year.

You are a ardent believer that our deer management plan is the right thing to do for hunters and the sport of hunting in this state.  That plan has resulted in more posted land and disgruntled hunters than Sunday hunting will ever create if it were legal in all existing seasons.  If the PGC does get regulatory control, Sunday hunting would most likely be expanding very slowly over a long period of time.

Forty some odd states allow Sunday hunting in all seasons.  I have a hard time believing that if it were to become illegal there, hunters and the sport of hunting would be better off.

The PGC is the Pennsylvania Game Commission and you are a Wildlife Conservation Officer in charge of protecting our wildlife and enforcing game laws.  The PGC is unable to regulate hunting on Sundays in this state.  Shameful that they do not want to.

 
Part of my job is to promote what is best for the future of hunting as the best wildlife management tool available. I believe there are some very good reasons why Pennsylvania has the most hunters per square mile in the state and also whey we have a lot more private land open to public hunting than most other states have.
 
It is when a state loses the ability to use hunting to manage wildlife populations on the private lands that is when they have lost the ability to manage. I believe Sunday hunting will result in more posted land not available to public hunting or enough hunting pressure to adequately manage some wildlife species and populations. There is absolutely no problem establishing seasons suitable for managing wildlife populations without the addition of Sunday hunting. But, as we continue to lose more and more private lands to public hunting that makes it harder to manage wildlife on both the private land and even the public land. As more hunters can’t find private land open to hunting they have two options, either quit hunting or more to public land. That then puts more pressure on the public land and either results in higher harvests there or forces the wildlife to move onto the private land with little to no hunting pressure. Both of those scenarios result in declining wildlife management ability.
 
I don’t care how many other states have Sunday hunting. Maybe that is the reason they also have so little land open to hunters unless those hunters are willing to pay to hunt. Perhaps that is also the reason those states have so few hunters, compared to the number of Penna. hunters.
 
As for your deer management argument I will simply dismiss that as either a red herring argument or one based on a lack of knowledge. I have no doubt that some land has been posted because of a lack of support for the deer management plan but I also that that is just a red herring argument used by many land owners that don’t want other hunters harvesting bucks they see as their entitlement as the landowner. I believe Sunday hunting will result in much more posted private land, at least in the initial years of any additional Sunday hunting.
 
The Sunday hunting issue is one the Game Commission will get a major black eye over no matter which way they would elect to go with Sunday hunting. If they had the power and added more Sunday hunting, half the hunters and many landowners would be angry with them. If they didn’t increase the Sunday hunting many hunters would be bashing them just as they are and you are right now. It is a know win situation and I am betting hunters and wildlife management would be worse off in the end than they are now.
 
I still have a fair number of private lands enrolled in public access programs that keep them open to public hunting but I have already heard from a number of those landowners that if we go with Sunday hunting they will pull their lands out of the program and post it. They are not going to post it against just Sunday hunting, if they have to put signs up they will be signs that close it to all hunting.
 
Explain to me how Sunday hunting is going to result in better wildlife management and I will go to bat for it. At this point I don’t see ANY real benefits to wildlife management with Sunday hunting and see it as strictly another thing hunters want because they think it will benefit them directly. But, as I look at the big picture, and that big picture is what wildlife management professionals should be looking at, I don’t see anything but even more wildlife management hurdles in the future with the addition of more species being included to Sunday hunting if we stand to lose hunting land and thus hunters as a result.
 
As Ben Franklin would have said, “ I think we would be paying to much for the whistle.” That is the way I see Sunday hunting, It would cost hunters a lot more in the end than what they gained by having it.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: RSB

If they didn’t increase the Sunday hunting many hunters would be bashing them just as they are and you are right now. It is a know win situation and I am betting hunters and wildlife management would be worse off in the end than they are now. 
 
Explain to me how Sunday hunting is going to result in better wildlife management and I will go to bat for it. At this point I don’t see ANY real benefits to wildlife management with Sunday hunting and see it as strictly another thing hunters want because they think it will benefit them directly.

 

Disagreement on issues is not bashing. Executive Director Roe has stated that he(PGC) supports gaining regulatory control of Sunday hunting.  I applaud that.  The BOC had not taken a position on it as of yet.  What I am questioning is those within the PGC that feel that hunters and hunting are better off with politicians managing our wildlife resources.  If regulatory control transfers the PGC is free to add or not add any Sundays if concerns exist.

If you have followed my posts I have been careful to be clear on my position.  That is a position of who should regulate hunting seven days of the week and not six as exists now.  When and where to add Sundays is a discussion for another day and one I have been clear to avoid.  I have my own concerns with certain aspects of expansion, as do you, but truly believe that game agencies should decide that, not politicians.  That is the difference of opinion between you and I.  Not if I or you support expansion of Sunday hunting.

I never asked you or the PGC to go to bat for Sunday hunting.  What I am asking for is for you, the BOC and the PGC to ask the legislature for the ability to manage game seven days of the week.  Don't add any Sundays if it is worse for hunting.  The PGC should be the one making that decision.

 
Director Roe told the Legislature that if the Game Commission had regulatory control we would use that to look at the possibility of Sunday hunting.
 
But, the fact is the Game Commission loses on it no matter what they do once they have that control. It is just more ammunition for people to bash the Game Commission over. Way to much to pay for the whistle in my opinion but if we had the regulatory control we would use it to the best of our ability and take the unwarranted abuse like we always do.
 
But, I don’t believe there is anything to be gained and only more to lose. We already manage ALL wildlife all seven days and all twenty-four hours within those seven days and all 365.25 days a year, with or without Sunday hunting.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn
 

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

So doc ain't buying the "all this extra revenue Sunday hunting will bring"....

Guys want another day to kill game and that is ALL IT IS ABOUT.. nothing else...
what's in it for me.. screw the rest of the guys... and who cares about 10 years from now...

I mean just look and listen to those complaining about lack of deer but still go out and kill some every year..

so where's all this extra revenue Sunday hunting will bring.. ??

 
I don't see it bringing all that much revenue either.  As I said before, "when and where" is a discussion for another day, in my mind. I would argue though that we as hunters and or sport will be better off if game agencies have the keys.

That would be a good reason why game agencies should be making the call and not politicians??? Politicians decide which species in Pa.

Then the PGC can do as they see fit

Do you really believe that if the PGC asked for deer to be added to the list for Sunday hunting the legislature would say no just because it was the PGC asking..


and to my knowledge they have never decided things without the PGC input..

In fact you keep mentioning this "legislature regulating" stuff..

what and when did the legislature try to regulate anything without the PGC's input.. and when did they go against the PGC's input...

I can think of only two things..

#1 they will not process a license increase..

and #2 they were willing to change the definition of bow to add an opportunity for more Pa hunters to harvest game.. and you and I both have taken advantage of the results of that idea.. crossbow were made legal by the PGC.. not the legislature.. but they were in the "wings" waiting to do it..

so where's all this regulating the legislature is doing with out the PGC's input...

I really do not believe there is any.. this "regulate" is just a smoke screen to get Sunday hunting passed...and as RSB stated let the PGC take the fall because they can not win either way...

PLEASE post your list of all these bad or even good "regulations" the legislature has passed since the NO SUNDAY HUNTNG LAW on their own ... without the PGC approval or input .... please !!!

Doc,
 
We are fortunate here in Pa. as hunters and hunting have rather strong support.  Demographics and beliefs are changing across this country.  Pennsylvania will not be immune to this forever. There are new avenues of attack from the antis that are taking advantage of these shifts.  Much more successfully than in the past. 
 
I choose to not live in the present but to position myself and attempt to position hunters and our sport where we are stronger and better able to defend against threats.  Wildlife should be managed by wildlife professionals, not politicians.   Mountian lions are overpopulated and elk are scheduled for extermination in California.  Bear season on and off in Jersey.  These just a few examples of poor decisions being made by folks that have no abilities to make them.
 
Politicians controlling hunting one day of the year is one day too many, IMO, anywhere where game exists.