Just like RSB you believe what you want to believe while ignoring the facts. In 2003 ,52K antlerless tags in 2G produced a harvest of 20.3K. Just one year later the same number of tags produced a harvest of only 13.1K Those harvest reduced the herd in 2G to just 12 preseason DPSM in 2005 and that explains why hunters have been harvesting less than 2 Buck PSM since 2003.

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

that means that more hunters wouldn't increase the harvest

we'll see what happen in 2011 ... with the increased allocations and split seasons in more WMUs .. I can see 2F going up right now... both buck and doe as long as the other factors remain about the same === more doe tags equals more guys hunting them equals more killed...

 
I think you missed my point.  Or you are trying to decive using my quote.  I was talking about private posted property having a affect on the deer population and outlined two specific instances where it was.  You took my quote and attempt to apply it state wide.  That is just dirty pool and you know it.
 
If there were million more hunters in PA, that would not increase the harvest on the two parcels I outlined because the same 20 guys would be the only ones on them, just as now.   Not one single hunter more owuld be on there.
 
 And the deer would still head for there at shot number 1 because of the size of the parcels and the lack of hunters.  These two properties already have split seasons.  Allocations won't matter there because the landowners self imposded rules are one and done. 
 
Now do you understand the impact of posted ground?
 
And the more ground that is posted in such a manner, the less control the PGC has over the herd -- except on public ground.  And even then, if the public ground is in close proximity to these sanctuary type areas, the degree of control is lessend there as well.  It will become like the PGC trying to control the urban deer, except without the swimming pools and swingsets.

I was simple showing deerfly that tags allocated does NOT mean ""the number of antlerless hunters"" as he implied... so it was not me trying to deceive as you call it....

there was not even a million regular licenses sold and you need one of those to get an antlerless tag ....so IF NOTHING else == there could not have been over a million antlerless hunters as he claimed...

do you understand now ?????

my point is many guys have more than one tag ... and many do not fill them all by chance or choice ... and others fill every one they have...

My year was not , as you said, based on choice... I had three tags and wanted to fill two of them... just like I have done for almost 13 years now when ever I can get 2 or 3 tags...so yes it was not my choice... and as for going to another area I HAVE TO ... I have one tag for 2F and the others for DMAP areas... so I try to get TWO... one in each area... but as we have gone over a hundred times.. I know there will be time the plans do not work out...

but I am still only one hunter === not three just because I have three tags as deerfly was counting me ...

when I mentioned folks get tags and have no intention of filling them I was not referring to antlerless hunters... guys that actually WANT to kill a doe... .. I was referring to those that buy tags so some one else does not get to fill one... or they claim to buy them to burn trying to prove a point by saving a deer....

Hopefully that makes it easier for you to understand what I posted....

I have NEVER read anything that the PGC states the number of hunters needed to harvest a doe or even a buck as a matter of fact..


you have to give a link to that "number of hunters needed" info...


All I ever see is number of licenses needed to harvest a deer....... or licenses per square mile
never number of hunters ... or hunter success rates...

They would have to be pretty stupid to say they need a million hunters to kill X number of deer when they know they only sold 800K licenses

I truly feel sorry for you if you really believe you have not seen the data on the number of tags needed to harvest a doe or that you can't figure out for yourself the number of buck hunters that harvest a buck

playing your silly games again... you mentioned the number of hunter.. NOT ME.... Sure I have seen how many TAGS it takes.. I even posted that... you're the one saying there ARE PGC FIGURES SHOWING HOW MANY HUNTERS IT TAKES TO HARVEST A DOE...

For example, in 2002 1.006M antlerless hunters harvested 352K antlerless , while in 2004, 1.017M hunters only killed 285K antlerless.

you posted hunters not tags until I call you on it.. now you're playing your games rather than admit you posted the wrong thing...

The same year the PGC issued 821K doe tags and hunters harvested 213K antlerless deer so the success ratio was approx. 1 doe/4

That states 1` doe for every 4 tags....it does NOT say one doe for every 4 hunters......


ghezz...

I'm done on this surely most reading this can see the differecne that you can't ... there's tags.. and there's hunters === two different things...

Thanks Dars ...

the success ratio is based on tags sold, not the number of physical hunters.

hopefully deerfly will understand your explaination better than mine... he's the one that posted it took a million plus ""hunters"" to kill XX number of deer...

whatever ??????

If you think it is just fine to say 1 million hunters killed XX number of deer who am I to say that's silly.....

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

whatever ??????

If you think it is just fine to say 1 million hunters killed XX number of deer who am I to say that's silly.....

 
Someone that now understands that tags = hunters and hunters = tags that did not before.
 
Oh, was that a rhetorical question on your part?

"I'll continue to keep them seperate..."

Can a hunter legally harvest a deer without a tag?
 
Can a tag physcially harvest a deer without a hunter?
 
Be able to nswer either of those yes and you can keep them separate.
 
If you can't and you still think they are spearate, then God bless you for having lived as long as you have with being that...
 
Never mind.

In any case, the antlerless allocations are still the major factor controlling the harvest and the high antlerless allocations over the past 10 years are the major factor that caused the 40% decrease in the herd.

But the question still remains as to why the PGC issued 902K tags for 2010 when they only issued 780K tags in 2001 when we still had 1M PS deer?

How many hunters quit between the time the PGC issued 815K tags for 2010 and when they allocated 902K tags for 2011? I thought license sales increased last year.

Did the PGC have any problem selling the antlerless tags for 2f or 2G? The answer is no, so everything you posted is meaningless!!!

Without even realizing it , you just admitted that even with the loss of 200K hunters ,there are still more than enough hunters available to buy every antlerless tags in 2F and 2G!!!

Doc,
 
Please don't ever use the word logic.  It is a concept that you have not grasped.  Here is the most simple logic statement ever presented -- If A, then B.
 
Here is that logic statement applied to your misunderstanding of tags = hunters. 
 
If A, a hunter, can not legally harvest a deer without a tag, then B, a tag = a hunter.
 
Further,
 
If A, a tag, cannot harvest a deer without a physicall hunter, then B, a hunter = a tag.
 
Therefore a tag = a hunter.
 
You seem so bent on wanting to lable people as anti-PGC that you let any view of actual logic go out the window.  Logic has no loyalties.  You have no logic.
 
Can hunters have more than one tag?  Yes.  Can those tags harvest a deer without a hunter?  Obviously not.  In the days before bonus tags one tag = one hunter because that was all that were permitted. Actually one tag meant less than one hunter because some did not get a doe tag and were relegated to one and done.  Plus some that had doe tags didn't use them because they harvested a buck and could not leagally use the tag.  Same situation as today.  Tags and hunters, for the purposes of setting allocations are the same thing.  It does not matter if there is a one tag, one hunter situation or one hunter 100 tags.  One does not work without the other.
 
Its only logical.
 
Sorry.

BTW, they didn't increase the allocation in 2G because there weren't enough hunters. They increased it to keep the herd at the current goal of 8 DPSM,which will in turn keep the buck harvest under 2 buck PSM.

Yep== plenty of hunters and tags just not enough HARVEST === not enough deer killed by the hunters or the allocated tags.... .....

can't increase the number of hunters with tags in the woods currently , so you need give more hunters their own tags... so you increase the number of tags even more... allowing more hunters into the woods...

and I agree the buck harvest will not decrease, it will increase also ....

If you guys are going to make me to choose a #1 influence..

I'm picking weather then .....