Deer Still A Problem ??

Page: < 12345.. > >> Showing page 5 of 8
Author
Post
Essentials Only Full Version
S-10
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 5185
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2005/01/21 21:22:55
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/27 11:49:21 (permalink)
And the reason why is because ehd hit many areas, but not all areas and was hit and miss, and most made very big efforts to NOT hunt those areas and restrict doe harvests in those areas due to the extreme situation


I know that's what happened in Ohio where I hunt. They got hit the same time Pa did and the area I hunted the most got hit the hardest. We moved about 20 miles in the opposite direction for 3 years to where it missed. In fact the motel where we stayed catered to deer hunters and it was almost a ghost town for a couple years.
That stuff really sucks where it hits, we found seven bucks in less than a mile of creek bottom in two days before deciding to give it up and find another area.
#121
dpms
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3552
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2006/08/28 12:47:54
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/27 12:39:42 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: wayne c

And our ridiculously continuing to drop buck harvest tells a different tale of the unit overall. You yourself said you were concerned about the high allocation and declining buck harvest. Guess that doesnt apply when youre trying to "help" out RSB with another of his failing debates? lol.


 
I was specifically referring to one area, Wayne.  I continue to remain concerned about the unit as a whole, especially with the proposed split season ans reduced AR.  Wasn't trying to help anybody, just pointing out the truth in what he said for those that look at issues with both eyes open.
 
There were several hard hit areas as you know.  All of the ones I am familiar with have completely recovered in a short period of time. 

My rifle is a black rifle
#122
wayne c
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3473
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/27 16:12:44 (permalink)
"I was specifically referring to one area, Wayne. I continue to remain concerned about the unit as a whole, especially with the proposed split season ans reduced AR. Wasn't trying to help anybody, just pointing out the truth in what he said for those that look at issues with both eyes open."


Rsb wasnt speaking of small isolated area. He spoke of deer numbers not being reduced in the face of even heavy hunting. And in the context of which he spoke, t'was utter nonsense.

There were several hard hit areas as you know. All of the ones I am familiar with have completely recovered in a short period of time.


Oh. I guess the double talk isnt limited to just the sunday hunting issue for you. lmao. Perhaps you need to actually read what you post and remember it from one sentence to the next.

I was specifically referring to one area, Wayne


post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/27 16:25:05
#123
wayne c
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3473
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/27 16:18:51 (permalink)
All chops busting aside, dpms, I dont think youre too far off in your assessment overall, but it has absolutely nothing to do with what rsb was attempting to say.

The herd in those areas didnt increase despite high hunting pressure, where it recovered, it only did so because there wasnt.


And unless you think that our antlerless allocations since 2000 have had no role in our decreasing harvest and reduced herd size on a unitwide overall basis, then i guess you dont agree with rsb either.
post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/27 16:26:40
#124
deerfly
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1271
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2010/05/03 16:06:32
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/27 16:45:14 (permalink)
But, that is only part of what it shows. It also shows that there was a good solid ten years of greatly reduced doe harvests from 1992 through 2001 and that even with way lower doe harvest the buck harvests didn’t increase. That is totally opposite of what you, deerfly and the others advocating lower doe harvests say will happen. You tell everyone that harvesting fewer does will mean more bucks, but that obviously didn’t happen over that ten years of VERY LOW doe harvests in the counties that make up unit 2G, did it.


Whether you realize it or not you just stepped in it up to your eyeballs and blew your theory ,about the habitat controlling the herd, to bits. While the buck harvest didn't increase from 1992 to 2001, it didn't decrease either. That means the herd remained stable for those ten years and it proved that the habitat could support at least 15 DPSM for 10 years with a buck harvest of 3 buck PSM. ARs reduced the buck harvest to 2.42 in 2002, but by 2009 , HR had reduced the buck harvest to 1.26 buck PSM. That proves beyond a doubt that the habitat was not responsible for the decrease in the herd in 2G from 2000 to 2009.

Here is what you had to say about the need for reproductive data.
The data used from highway killed deer had been used for decades in determining what the breeding and reproductive rates were for each management unit. That data was then plugged into the deer management model to help in the determination of how many antlerless licenses were needed for the year. The number of hunter-harvested deer for each unit was also used in that determination. Therefore, the amount of data from each was and always will be crucial to the best possible management objectives.


But ,now you say the reproductive data from roadkills isn't needed to manage the herd. Can you imagine how much time you wasted gutting stinky roadkills when they could have gotten the same data from the harvest stats. The funny thing is that herd health hasn't been a problem for at least the last 30 years and the PGC just used it as a smoke screen for reducing the herd.
post edited by deerfly - 2011/03/27 18:21:14
#125
dpms
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3552
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2006/08/28 12:47:54
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/27 16:47:55 (permalink)
In the orginal post, I was referring to one area.  I am also familiar with others that have recovered very nicely.  No double talk. 
 

My rifle is a black rifle
#126
wayne c
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3473
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/27 17:10:32 (permalink)
You are starting to sound like rsb. lol. BOTH statements were in reply to the same post and the exact same topic.

Same as with the sunday hunting....On one board, youre like; oh my concern is that pgc has the say so...for me this aint about sunday hunting becoming legalized..all about the agency that should have the say so and not legislators....This is NOT a sunday hunting legalization issue...

Then on the another board saying this is the "1st step" towards us legalizing sunday hunting. lol.



post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/27 17:12:48
#127
dpms
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3552
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2006/08/28 12:47:54
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/27 18:22:11 (permalink)
Whatever.  Posting here less and less, lately. As are many others.  Seems that all this board has turned into is a couple of folks trying to discredit everything that is said from both sides,  instead of having positive discussions on hunting. 

For the record.  I support the PGC having regulatory control of Sunday hunting.  First step.  Then the discussion begins on where, when and how to implement it, if ever.  As I stated many times, I would rather have game agencies making those decisions instead of politicians.  

Carry on. 
post edited by dpms - 2011/03/27 19:33:54

My rifle is a black rifle
#128
deerfly
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1271
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2010/05/03 16:06:32
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/27 18:42:18 (permalink)
instead of having positive discussions on hunting. 


Can you provide an example of the type of positive discussions you would like to see ? Currently this is the most active MB regarding the issue of deer management and that is because it treats those on both sides of the issue of deer management fairly.
#129
wayne c
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3473
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/27 19:18:32 (permalink)
"Whatever. Posting here less and less, lately. Seems that all this board has turned into is a couple of folks trying to discredit everything that is said from both sides, instead of having positive discussions on hunting."


Where are the positive hunting discussions? Noones stopping anyone from having them. And you are more then welcome to lead by example. But please start another thread, this is titled "DEER STILL A PROBLEM". Heck if it interests me, i wouldnt be against giving my 2 cents on said topic.

If i want to talk about muskie fishin' or catfishin' or other topics i am interested in... i make it a point to post on the topic. If the posts i want to see arent made, and i wont initiate it myself, and noone else is at the time, then i only have myself to blame.

I do think though, that if this wasnt more of a "fishing" oriented board....let alone off season for hunting, youd see a wider range of topics discussed within these "hunting" threads.

post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/27 19:29:07
#130
eyesandgillz
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 4050
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2003/06/18 11:30:03
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/28 09:03:24 (permalink)
Indiana and Cambria County deer report:
 
Drove up to Carrolltown this past weekend for a b-day party on Sat.  B/w Bolivar and Dilltown exits on Rte, 22, saw 15 live deer in 3 different fields at 3pm ish in the afternoon.  Also saw a bunch of turks out doing their thing.  On the entire drive from toll 66 to Ebensburg, we saw over 10 decently fresh roadkills. 
 
While fishing the inlaws pond on Sunday afternoon, had at least 10 deer run below the pond after I accidentally bonked the float off the metal duck house in the middle of the pond.  This was 2pm in the afternoon.  They must have been below the pond munching on the buds from the recently downed tree tops from the logging.  Our voices didn't bother them at all or the dogs running around the pond chasing the ducks but they didn't like that metal clank.....
 
The herd is definitely growing again in this particular area and one of the major factors is less hunting pressure.
#131
wayne c
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3473
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/28 14:04:46 (permalink)
Yep. Lessened pressure. Thats what it takes no doubt. The degree needed varies by area, but it doesnt take a wizard to figure out that harvests control the herd. But unfortunately, there are some that dont agree with that very common sense conclusion. Ive seen it stated that you can have limitless tags across large areas of the state, and if the habitat is there, we cannot decrease the herd there even with maximum pressure.

Thats just completely asnine imho.
#132
RSB
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 932
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2010/08/11 22:55:57
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/28 18:41:09 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: wayne c

Yep. Lessened pressure. Thats what it takes no doubt. The degree needed varies by area, but it doesnt take a wizard to figure out that harvests control the herd. But unfortunately, there are some that dont agree with that very common sense conclusion. Ive seen it stated that you can have limitless tags across large areas of the state, and if the habitat is there, we cannot decrease the herd there even with maximum pressure.

Thats just completely asnine imho.

 
Really!
 
Let’s go ahead and take a look at the affects of where they have had unlimited antlerless allocations and harvests verses where they have continuously reduced the allocations and antlerless harvests.
 
Three units have had unlimited antlerless allocations and antlerless harvests for over twenty years now so let’s take at how the harvests have gone in the counties that make up those three units and see how that compares to the two units where they have had pretty much continuously declining allocations over the past twenty years.
 
Average antlerless harvests per square mile:
 
Counties/units with unlimited antlerless licenses and harvests:
 
Unit………83-87……..88-92……..93-97………98-02………03-07……….08-10
2B………..2.97……….5.00……….6.45………..8.25………..10.70………..11.81
5C………..2.12……….3.69……….5.08……….5.84…………7.94………...10.35
5D………..1.52……….2.86……….5.33……….5.66…………5.27………….4.83
 
Counties/units where antlerless allocations and harvests remained stagnant or were reduced. 
 
Unit………83-87……..88-92……..93-97………98-02………03-07……….08-10
2F………..5.34……….6.76……….7.06……….7.43…………4.50………….2.96
2G……….3.98………..5.48………4.36……….4.66………….2.35………….1.37
 
The facts simply don’t support what you claim be just common sense or what you refer to as asinine. The facts clearly show that where they have had continuously increasing allocations and doe harvests the deer populations have not only remained healthy and stable but have actually continued to increase. The facts also show that in the old big woods traditional deer areas where hunters demanded lower allocations and doe harvests the deer population crashed with the declining doe harvests.
 
Now let’s go ahead and take a look at the buck harvests for the same units over the same time periods.
 
Average buck harvests per square mile:
 
Counties/units with unlimited antlerless licenses and harvests:
 
Unit………83-87……..88-92……..93-97………98-02………03-07……….08-10
2B………..2.25……….3.44……….4.28………..5.26…………3.52…………3.01
5C………..1.87……….2.46……….2.64………..3.48…………3.31…………3.95
5D………..1.32……….1.82……….1.98………..2.65…………1.66…………1.40
 
Counties/units where antlerless allocations and harvests remained stagnant or were reduced. 
 
Unit………83-87……..88-92……..93-97………98-02………03-07……….08-10
2F………..4.20……….4.56……….4.70..………5.13…………2.64…………2.57
2G……….3.82………..4.02………3.59………..3.88………….1.65…………1.37
 
If you look at the facts instead of just believing the myths and rumors you can also see that the buck harvests have remained stable or even increased in the units where the hunters had unlimited antlerless licenses and harvests for over twenty years. Heck unit 5C has been harvesting record numbers of bucks with both unlimited antlerless harvests and antler restrictions that protect many of their bucks.
 
If you look at the units where there have been reduced antlerless allocations and harvests you can see how not only the doe harvests are declining but see that the buck harvests are also declining. That is just the opposite of what many hunters stay will happen with lower doe harvests.
 
Don’t be fooled into the false information and idea that you will have more deer if you harvest fewer does. It simply doesn’t work that way when the habitat is compromised to the point it will not support and sustain more deer. In fact it works just the opposite of what many of the posters on this site would try to convince you.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn      
#133
S-10
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 5185
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2005/01/21 21:22:55
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/28 19:22:01 (permalink)
What a crock---2G and 2F are almost entirely open for hunting where 2B, 5C, and 5D are suburbs of large cities where large areas are off limits to hunting and become defacto deer refuges. It's like having your own breeding factory where each year the excess gets pushed out into what little open area there is to hunt and they get shot. It's why there are unlimited licenses and why the PGC never has and never will get the herd down to where they want.
I used to hunt a similiar area in Illinois next to a refuge. Every year the available deer got hammered but not to worry because by next season enough would get pushed out of the refuge to start all over again.
That is really trying to mislead the public RSB and you know better. Were not those grade school kids you can feed this chit to and get away with it.
The sad part is guys like you do try to con the school kids with this kind of crap.
post edited by S-10 - 2011/03/28 19:30:09
#134
wayne c
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3473
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/28 19:27:05 (permalink)
Really!


Why yes rsb. Since you asked...R-E-A-L-L-Y!

"Three units have had unlimited antlerless allocations and antlerless harvests for over twenty years"


No- no. Youre circumventing the issue using deception. The issue being hunting pressure harvest effects on the deer herd, yet you choose to use the worst examples possible. Its well know the access issues of those few urban type units and that makes them "special" (literally, thats why theyre special regs areas! lol) the issue is hunting PRESSURE, and you spoke of unlimited tags in the northern pa more than once in the past....Not the heart of inner city Pittsburgh. lol Cant believe you actually posted that and expect to be taken seriously. lol. The access issues are the only reason the herd hasnt been utterly destroyed by those unlimited tags in those few extreme units. Have those allocation in any other unit, and youre herd WILL plummet. Its been proven pretty much everywhere else with even far far fewer tags.


I only have two questions id like an answer to if you will. Just for clarification.

1. Do you believe that the allocations were successful in reducing the herd in most if not all of our non-sra units or was it due to something else?

2. Do you believe any units that are nonsra units could withstand unlimited allocations without reducing the herd within those units?

post edited by wayne c - 2011/03/28 19:38:02
#135
deerfly
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1271
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2010/05/03 16:06:32
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/28 20:26:08 (permalink)
Counties/units where antlerless allocations and harvests remained stagnant or were reduced.

Unit………83-87……..88-92……..93-97………98-02………03-07……….08-10
2F………..4.20……….4.56……….4.70..………5.13…………2.64…………2.57
2G……….3.82………..4.02………3.59………..3.88………….1.65…………1.37

Thank you or providing the data that shows the over browsed habitat in 2F supported an average antlerless harvest harvest of over 4.5 DPSM for 20 years between 1983 and 2002 ,while at the same time 2G supported a harvest of over 3.7 doe PSM during the same period. But ,after over 50 years of over browsing,according to your ridiculous theory the habitat reduced the antlerles s harvest in both WMUs after 2002 for no good reason.

Try again!!!


#136
RSB
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 932
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2010/08/11 22:55:57
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/28 22:32:00 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: S-10

What a crock---2G and 2F are almost entirely open for hunting where 2B, 5C, and 5D are suburbs of large cities where large areas are off limits to hunting and become defacto deer refuges. It's like having your own breeding factory where each year the excess gets pushed out into what little open area there is to hunt and they get shot. It's why there are unlimited licenses and why the PGC never has and never will get the herd down to where they want.
I used to hunt a similiar area in Illinois next to a refuge. Every year the available deer got hammered but not to worry because by next season enough would get pushed out of the refuge to start all over again.
That is really trying to mislead the public RSB and you know better. Were not those grade school kids you can feed this chit to and get away with it.
The sad part is guys like you do try to con the school kids with this kind of crap.

 
Anyone who is capable of logical thinking would very quickly realize that since they are harvesting from 4 to 8 rimes as many deer per square mile, city streets and all, in those special regulations units as they are in the big woods unit they obviously are not protecting the deer and instead are killing them. If they were protecting that many deer in the unhunted areas there would have to be hundreds if not thousands of deer per square mile on those unhunted lands for them to harvest that many deer where they are hunting them.
 
Anyone who doesn’t think there are even larger areas of land in the big woods that don’t get hunted as any place in those special regulation units is very badly mistaken.
 
The FACT is that they have been and still are hammering the deer populations in the special regulations areas and as a result the habitat has stayed healthy enough to maintain the high fawn recruitment rates needed to have sustainable high deer populations. Meanwhile in the big woods units the hunters have demanded that fewer and fewer deer be harvested so the deer population could recover. But, it isn’t recovering because they keep too many deer through the winter on poor habitat and that results in low fawn recruitment and a deer herd that actively reduces its own numbers to fit the declining habitat. That is just how nature works and the harvest data I provided proves that point to anyone smart enough to look at it objectively.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn      
#137
RSB
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 932
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2010/08/11 22:55:57
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/28 23:01:05 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: wayne c

Really!


Why yes rsb. Since you asked...R-E-A-L-L-Y!

"Three units have had unlimited antlerless allocations and antlerless harvests for over twenty years"


No- no. Youre circumventing the issue using deception. The issue being hunting pressure harvest effects on the deer herd, yet you choose to use the worst examples possible. Its well know the access issues of those few urban type units and that makes them "special" (literally, thats why theyre special regs areas! lol) the issue is hunting PRESSURE, and you spoke of unlimited tags in the northern pa more than once in the past....Not the heart of inner city Pittsburgh. lol Cant believe you actually posted that and expect to be taken seriously. lol. The access issues are the only reason the herd hasnt been utterly destroyed by those unlimited tags in those few extreme units. Have those allocation in any other unit, and youre herd WILL plummet. Its been proven pretty much everywhere else with even far far fewer tags.


I only have two questions id like an answer to if you will. Just for clarification.

1. Do you believe that the allocations were successful in reducing the herd in most if not all of our non-sra units or was it due to something else?

2. Do you believe any units that are nonsra units could withstand unlimited allocations without reducing the herd within those units?



 
Yes I do believe the allocations can and have reduced the deer populations in some units. The units with small woodlots and mixed farmlands can probably be over hunted provided hunters have enough access to over harvest them. But if there is a lack of hunter access though it might actually make it so that hunters can’t over harvest the deer even if they had unlimited antler permits to the land they do have access to, just as occurs in the special regulations areas. I don’t believe most of the mixed farmland units are too that point yet but I believe they will be at some time in the future and it will require unlimited antlerless permits to save those units from adverse habitat damage that leads to natural deer population declines.
 
As for your second question, yes I believe we should have unlimited antlerless licenses in 2F and 2G and possibly even a few other northern tier and/or mountainous units.
 
Even though those units don’t have a lot of deer they still have as many deer as the habitat will sustain and the populations are not going to grow more that what the annual environmental conditions will allow until the habitat reaches a higher level of recovery. There are huge areas where hunters don’t go to harvest deer so the deer swarm to those remote areas during the deer and thus escape harvest. Then when you get a harsh winter those deer all get forced into habitat depleted wintering grounds and nearly starve to death. As a result they end up with few surviving fawns the next spring and we have a deer population that fluctuates from one year to the next based on the environmental conditions instead of hunter harvests.
 
That isn’t going to change in some cases no mater what harvest action is taken but the fact still remains that hunters could be and should be harvesting a lot more deer without causing any adverse affects to the future deer numbers. In fact in most areas harvesting a lot more deer would be the fastest way to get the habitat recovery needed to allow for better fawn survival rates. Until we get better fawn survival rates is the deer populations in many of the big woods areas simply isn’t going to recover more that slightly and then only following mild winters and for only short term periods of time.
 
Currently many hunters can’t get a license for unit 2F or 2G so they get one or two for other units where tags are available then kill deer in 2f or 2G and use the tags for the other units on the 2F and 2G deer. We arrest them when we catch up with them doing it but I am sure for everyone we catch there are dozens more that we don’t catch. Those deer then show up as a harvest in some other unit instead of where they were really killed. That means we have incorrect harvest data results of every management unit. That then is counter productive to proper deer management in every unit since all units have a degree of bias in the harvest data. Maybe not a lot of bias in most units but it certainly results in a bias for the 2F and 2G unit harvest results depending on how many actually get away with it.
 
Having unlimited license in those units would also lead to knowing how many hunters you actually had hunting and attempting to harvest deer since there would no longer be any sense in hunters buys tags they had no intentions of using so they could save a deer.
 
Unlimited tags in those units would result in much better management of the resources in those units and eventually lead to having more deer in the units than we have now.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn     
#138
MuskyMastr
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3032
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2005/06/30 17:39:29
  • Location: Valley of the Crazy Woman
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/28 23:04:38 (permalink)
I can't take it any more, I once again invite anyone to take a walk near westline in 2F and tell me that the habitat is overbrowsed and that populations are being suppressed by poor habitat and subsequent poor recruitment.

I met a predator hunter up there 2 weeks ago, since the first of november, with his dogs, he has killed 40 coyotes off of the same mountain, (along with a huge pile of grey fox). I saw the photos of the hides before he sold them, and he had two in the truck the day I met him. What do you suppose those yotes have been eating? Poor fawn crops of undernourished deer?

Better too far back, than too far forward.
#139
RSB
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 932
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2010/08/11 22:55:57
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/28 23:10:48 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: deerfly

Counties/units where antlerless allocations and harvests remained stagnant or were reduced.

Unit………83-87……..88-92……..93-97………98-02………03-07……….08-10
2F………..4.20……….4.56……….4.70..………5.13…………2.64…………2.57
2G……….3.82………..4.02………3.59………..3.88………….1.65…………1.37

Thank you or providing the data that shows the over browsed habitat in 2F supported an average antlerless harvest harvest of over 4.5 DPSM for 20 years between 1983 and 2002 ,while at the same time 2G supported a harvest of over 3.7 doe PSM during the same period. But ,after over 50 years of over browsing,according to your ridiculous theory the habitat reduced the antlerles s harvest in both WMUs after 2002 for no good reason.

Try again!!!




 
Sure it did until they cut the harvest and allowed the extra over winter deer destroy their food supply. That is the entire point.
 
If we hadn’t reduced the antlerless allocations, and harvests, we wouldn’t have experienced as much habitat damage; the remaining deer would have had more over winter food and thus produced more healthy fawns that could survive the next spring. If that had happened we probably wouldn’t have experienced as much of a natural population decline and have more deer today.
 
If they had started the herd reduction in this area back in the forties when the forest conditions first grew out of the reach of the deer we could probably support way more deer today than we presently are.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn
#140
Outdoor Adventures
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1849
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/29 00:12:41 (permalink)
"Those deer then show up as a harvest in some other unit instead of where they were really killed." RSB this shouldn't make a difference as you stated that hunters lie and only report 50% of their kills. I'm listening but your talking nonsense.
#141
S-10
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 5185
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2005/01/21 21:22:55
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/29 08:02:43 (permalink)
Anyone who is capable of logical thinking would very quickly realize that since they are harvesting from 4 to 8 rimes as many deer per square mile, city streets and all, in those special regulations units as they are in the big woods unit they obviously are not protecting the deer and instead are killing them. If they were protecting that many deer in the unhunted areas there would have to be hundreds if not thousands of deer per square mile on those unhunted lands for them to harvest that many deer where they are hunting them.


You really do need to take a few math classes.
#142
Dr. Trout
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 4417
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/03/03 03:12:33
  • Location: Jefferson County (2F)
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/29 09:42:04 (permalink)
met a predator hunter up there 2 weeks ago, since the first of november, with his dogs, he has killed 40 coyotes off of the same mountain,


Not trying to be a smarty but I find that very interesting,,, wonder if or why he did not enter the coyote hunt at Mosquito Creek, if there's that many coyotes on that mountain ?????

They had only 7 yotes from all of McKean County turned in and they were by just 3 guys....
Lonnie Hart =3 (call) --- Bob Jimerson = 3 (dogs) and Brien Gage= 2 (dogs)....

Jefferson had 4, Elk had 3, and Forest had 0 ... does not sound like a coyote problem to me in 2F...

BUT if there are that many (40) that says nothing about 2F as a whole....

and I am not familar enough with the mountain he is talking about to know everything in that 15 mile coyote range as to what they are feeding on ????

I can't image it would be deer since the harvest numbers for that area are not that great and have not been for some time......

FYI == Erie and Bradford each had over 20 yotes...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2011/03/29 09:53:59

DR. TROUT'S OUTDOORWORLD MESSAGE BOARD


#143
psu_fish
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3217
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/08/28 22:37:11
  • Location: PA
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/29 11:47:20 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

met a predator hunter up there 2 weeks ago, since the first of november, with his dogs, he has killed 40 coyotes off of the same mountain,


Not trying to be a smarty but I find that very interesting,,, wonder if or why he did not enter the coyote hunt at Mosquito Creek, if there's that many coyotes on that mountain ?????

They had only 7 yotes from all of McKean County turned in and they were by just 3 guys....
Lonnie Hart =3 (call) --- Bob Jimerson = 3 (dogs) and Brien Gage= 2 (dogs)....

Jefferson had 4, Elk had 3, and Forest had 0 ... does not sound like a coyote problem to me in 2F...

BUT if there are that many (40) that says nothing about 2F as a whole....

and I am not familar enough with the mountain he is talking about to know everything in that 15 mile coyote range as to what they are feeding on ????

I can't image it would be deer since the harvest numbers for that area are not that great and have not been for some time......

FYI == Erie and Bradford each had over 20 yotes...

 
 
 
 
 
Really Doc? One hunt determines the entire WMU coyote population?
 

 
#144
outasync
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 730
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/05/21 12:46:09
  • Location: Burghill Ohio
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/29 12:07:15 (permalink)
how long was the coyote hunt also? 'since the first of november, with his dogs, he has killed 40 coyotes off of the same mountain'
#145
DarDys
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 4949
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2009/11/13 08:46:21
  • Location: Duncansville, PA
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/29 12:14:08 (permalink)
"Not trying to be a smarty but I find that very interesting,,, wonder if or why he did not enter the coyote hunt at Mosquito Creek, if there's that many coyotes on that mountain ?????"

 
You, yourself, said you would not enter any type of fishing contest when the One Fly was being discussed with regard to expectations.
 
Perhaps he was of the same mindset.
 
Competition isn't for everyone.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
#146
Dr. Trout
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 4417
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/03/03 03:12:33
  • Location: Jefferson County (2F)
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/29 12:44:22 (permalink)
Could be...

I just find "40" in one area in a few months a little hard to believe.. sorry but that may just be me and what little I know about coyotes or coyote hunting..

my point was just because someone shoots "40" coyotes in one area does not prove anything about the deer population or habitat there...

DR. TROUT'S OUTDOORWORLD MESSAGE BOARD


#147
psu_fish
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3217
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/08/28 22:37:11
  • Location: PA
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/29 14:06:24 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: outasync

how long was the coyote hunt also? 'since the first of november, with his dogs, he has killed 40 coyotes off of the same mountain'

 
 
 
 
Feb 25-27 2011
 
http://www.mosquitocreeksportsmen.com/Coyote%20Hunt.htm
#148
DarDys
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 4949
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2009/11/13 08:46:21
  • Location: Duncansville, PA
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/29 15:01:31 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

Could be...

I just find "40" in one area in a few months a little hard to believe.. sorry but that may just be me and what little I know about coyotes or coyote hunting..

my point was just because someone shoots "40" coyotes in one area does not prove anything about the deer population or habitat there...

 
I know little about yotes either.
 
 

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
#149
Fishtamer
Avid Angler
  • Total Posts : 235
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2007/01/21 14:25:36
  • Status: offline
RE: Deer Still A Problem ?? 2011/03/29 15:11:08 (permalink)
Don't know about exact numbers, but in 2F, I see less deer than I used to and far more coyotes than I used to.
#150
Page: < 12345.. > >> Showing page 5 of 8
Jump to: