If the PGC didn't waste so much money doing useless studies on deer, they might have enough money to determine why rabbits thrive in some areas and are virtually non-existent in other areas. We have lots of great rabbit habitat but no rabbits.

ORIGINAL: rsquared

DarDys, maybe you can help me out here with what I'm trying to remember related to pheasants.

I read somewhere within the past couple of years, that for a small wild pheasant population to take hold and sustain over the long run, you need something on the order of +/- 300 acres of good, unbroken pheasant habitat that includes nesting cover, wintering cover and food. And the nesting habitat needs to be undisturbed from about April through July.

Try finding land that fits that description in PA today.

I'm sure it was abundant a couple decades ago. But with urban sprawl, suburbia, modern farming practices, etc, I can't think of any place that fits that description.

You are probably right.  But let me ask this rhetorically, since certain conditions are needed to sustain a breeding population of steelhead, and Erie doesn't have those conditions, should people stop fishing for them or should they enjoy the put and take fishery the same way that small game hunters should enjoy the put and take phesant hunting?  I don't see a difference.
 
There is actaully a fairly stable breeding population of pheasants within 2 miles of my house.  Back when the PGC used phesant farms to help support their million bird stocking, the area was heavily stocked and many birds survived.  It hasn't been stocked in almost 20 years, but the habitat is conducive to a wild bird population.  At times, the population gets high enough that I have wild birds across from my house.  I hunted this area for about 8 years, being careful how many birds we actually harvested until it was leased by a group of 10 archery hunters (nothing against archery hunters) that didn't want anyone but them on the property because, as they put it, "you might chase a deer off."  I even offered to buy into the lease, and not hunt deer at all, but they were adament about not disturbing the area, especially during the archery/small game season overlap.

You are probably right. But let me ask this rhetorically, since certain conditions are needed to sustain a breeding population of steelhead, and Erie doesn't have those conditions, should people stop fishing for them or should they enjoy the put and take fishery the same way that small game hunters should enjoy the put and take phesant hunting? I don't see a difference.

I wasn't really trying to say that we should stop hunting them. Just was pointing out to a few on here who wondered why there were so few pheasants around, that there is not much habitat left in most of PA to sustain huntable populations of wild pheasants, or at least stocked populations that are self-sustaining from year to year. I totally agree with you.

Your story about the farms in SD was interesting. I know a guy who goes out there every fall, and raves about all the "wild birds." Guess they're not so wild after all.

I just got into pheasant hunting on the SGL's a few years ago. I've walked up on a few that wouldn't fly and just sit there and look at you. When they see my lab though, they usually take off. For the most part though, the stocked birds are at least a little cagey, and fly well.

I'm glad that there are at least a few opportunities to hunt for them. I don't care if they're wild or pen raised. Same with trout. I have no illusions about the mystical pellethead or a wild pheasant. I just like to hunt and fish, and will take whatever opportunities are provided to me.

Regarding the archery hunters by you, I have an acquaintance (not really to the level of a friend) with a couple hundred acres that gets pounded with geese after he cuts the corn. He's a hard core deer hunter - bow and gun - and won't let me hunt there even in late January/February so I don't disturb his precious deer.

ORIGINAL: deerfly

If the PGC didn't waste so much money doing useless studies on deer, they might have enough money to determine why rabbits thrive in some areas and are virtually non-existent in other areas. We have lots of great rabbit habitat but no rabbits.

 
LMAO....You certainly have a knack for figuring out ways to whine about everything!

ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter

ORIGINAL: deerfly

If the PGC didn't waste so much money doing useless studies on deer, they might have enough money to determine why rabbits thrive in some areas and are virtually non-existent in other areas. We have lots of great rabbit habitat but no rabbits.

LMAO....You certainly have a knack for figuring out ways to whine about everything!

Yep. So far he's whined 527 times. I'm guessing 528 will be any minute now.... wait for it....

I think everyone can agree on what good rabbit habitat is.  The question still remains.  Where did they go? I am going to stick with my first answer, too many predetors.  Yes, I know, rabbits **** like rabbits.  That is why you see quite a few of them in the early summer.  Late season rolls around though, and the pickin' gets slim.
 

Unless there is some reason why some areas of the state have a lot more or a lot less predators than others, it doesn't seem logical that predation is the main reason for the large difference in rabbit populations across the state.

Too many rabbit tags, deerfly.  Too many!

Ironhed

I cut my teeth rabbit hunting,I've had beagles since I've been 8 years old,and rabbits need food,water,cover,and low predation.Plus a lot die of parasites,I used to brake up salt blocks into hand size piece and throw them into briar thickets in the summer.When there's long periods of snow cover great horned owls take the most.It's always been take way with rabbits some spots looked great and the dogs could hardly get a chase and other where over run with them.I got one old dog 13 yrs old that had a stroke this fall and I did not go bunny hunting at all this year,last year a couple times and let the 3 bunnies to run another day. It's been about 10 years since I really killed a bunch of bunnies,but I did have a 3 dog pack of young hounds. I think you can still find decent bunny hunting but not like the old days.

They need to close rabbit hunting for a couple years to let the population re-bound..

REMEMBER == By killing a female rabbit (also called a doe) you have taken away 20-30 rabbits for the following year..

DEAR PGC :

Please close or go to a three day season for rabbits... we are losing too many hunters in this state because they are not seeing or harvesting enough rabbits to keep them happy...

til later,
doc

the next step: rabbit leases

Don't laugh too hard, there is a fellow not too far from me that bought 20 acres adjacent to the ANF, clearcut it, fenced it with a tight woven fence, developed it strictly for rabbits and traps them in the nearby town and stocks them in there. About all he does is hunt rabbits and run his dogs, mostly just run the dogs.

As for the ones around here, whenever a hawk or fox decides to nest or den on my property the rabbits soon disappear. The years they don't I seem to have plenty late in the year. The cats also take a big toll but I discourage them whenever I can. I've lost track of the times I've laid in bed on a summer night and heard the last squeal of a bunny.

Its not just you guys,
Here at home rabbits are getting real scarce and have been for a long time now. I wouldnt bother owning a beagle ever again.
I think there are several reasons that probably apply most evreywhere. Yotes and fishers are huge rabbit eaters and with all the protections the raptors are most certainly a big factor . Probably one of the biggest however appears to me to be the HUGE decline in farming which produced great hedge rows and food sources not just for bunnies but lots of the game we now find diminished.
Not many rabbits in mature woods- they need that edge, like everything else, to proliferate. Pretty much the same story throughout the Northeast part of the country.

I'm sure you would be fined. Yes you can buy them.

ORIGINAL: tippecanoe

Don't laugh too hard, there is a fellow not too far from me that bought 20 acres adjacent to the ANF, clearcut it, fenced it with a tight woven fence, developed it strictly for rabbits and traps them in the nearby town and stocks them in there. About all he does is hunt rabbits and run his dogs, mostly just run the dogs.

ok I couldn't quit.  That is a great idea, I would really love to develop some ground and cover someday that would hold plenty of rabbits, even if I had to stock them.  I don't think you can buy them, I figure you would have to trap them and move them.

The very first critter I killed was a bunny and that was in Penn Hills outside of Pittsburgh .... My dad and I went to a nearby farm that our family doctor owned and told us and most everyone they could hunt there... that farm is now a shopping center... when I was old enough to hunt by myself my buddy and I would hunt the wooded areas near our homes after school for bunnies and occasionally shoot one or two.. that wooded area is now part of the same housing development we lived in and there is no wooded area within 5-8 miles now.. even the woods we kids played in and went thru walking to school is gone to yet another small shopping center...

less and less habitat for small game without a "trip" to some place being involved.. no more after school hunts for many.. thus less small game thus less interest in starting to hunt.

We hear about starting kids on squirrels, that's not a bad idea but for many that too now requires driving someplace miles away , especially in the city areas.. It has been my experience that squirrel hunting can be boring too... weather seems to play a huge part in a squirrel's daily activity.. It's MY OPINION from my experiences they do not like windy days, rainy days, real hot days, very cold days.... I spent my share of hours sitting and not seeing a squirrel the entire time I was there.. in fact I see more deer than squirrels when hunting.

It might be the areas I am hunting though.. I do not do much scouting for squirrels any more...
Most of my squirrel hunting is based on being bored at home and needing to go into the woods and sit in the quiet and RELAX... and JUST MAYBE try to harvest something for dinner. I always hope to harvest something but would never place a bet on any of my hunting trips that I would harvest anyting..it's called hunting not killing

If I had kids to try to get interested in hunting I think I would start with the basics..

looking for tracks and other sign.. identifying what we discovered.. FOR SURE I would teach how to ID various plants and trees.. and explain what value they have to various critters in the woods.. (something I never had until about 10 years ago)

I'd start by asking for permission to hunt some of the few farms left for small game... even ask if we could help with any groundhog problems they may have.. I'd not worry about deer .. start small and work up ... if the child is looking for and hoping to see a squirrel can you image the excitement he/she would share if a deer-bear-grouse-raccoon-fisher-coyote-turkey-bobcat just happened by ??

I'd keep the "hunts" to a 2-3 hour adventure at BEST !!!

The main thing is to NOT set their expectations to high to start with...

talking about the "good old days" of hunting in Pa will do nothing except have them expect the same and that is not going to happen be it rabbits, squirrels, pheasants, or deer...

turkeys... now that may be the way to go today.. I have not done much turkey hunting or even got very interested in it.. but of course that was not a species many hunted when I started and I never associated with many that hunt or hunted turkeys.. I'm one of those loners...

but around here and much of Pa it is a popular species and there seems to be quite a few of them..

It seems the kids that come into the store that hunt them with their adults really get excited when talking "turkey" they are ALWAYS playing with the calls we have out for "demos" .. DRIVES ME NUTS sometimes .. but they would never know that.. I tell them what I think of their calling etc.. and they just run on and on about turkey hunting... may be food for thought for some of you with youngsters and looking for a starting point...

I started out on squirrels, but stopped small game hunting fairly quickly. The meat that I get from a squirrel isn't worth the hassel of cleaning one. I spend my outdoor time fishing right up to deer season, and I enjoy fly fishing more than small game hunting, so its an easy trade off. If I can't fish and I need to get outside I walk/sit/scout through the deer hunting spots out the back door. Hoping to try archery next year. Deer is what I want to hunt, maybe turkey some time, but small game just isn't my cup of tea.

That being said, if and when I have children, I'll be taking them squirrel hunting. High success rate (relatively), and a good introduction to the fact that once you shoot and animal, the real work starts.