LockedGetting Youth involved == 
SonofZ3
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 16:06:42
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People hunt feral pigs in Hawaii, though I doubt the number of people who engage in that sport is very high.
Support your local Fly Shop! OHWM
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 16:08:11
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This from the 2010 QDMA Report on license sales... In our 2009 Whitetail Report discussed “Hunter Numbers, Demographics and Trends†on pages 23 to 25. In the article we stated that while hunter numbers are in a steady decline, the number of big game hunters was only slightly declining and was even increasing in some states. As Families Afield and other hunter recruitment initiatives continue to attract and retain new hunters, we were interested in the most recent license sales data available from state agencies, so we surveyed wildlife agencies in the continental U.S. and asked for the total number of hunting licenses (number of unique hunters) sold in 2007 and 2008. We received data from 38 states (see map), and 26 (68 percent) reported selling more licenses in 2008 than in 2007! One state sold approximately equal numbers, and only 11 states (29 percent) sold fewer licenses in 2008. For states selling more licenses, the average increase was 3.5 percent and ranged from 0.3 percent in Pennsylvania and Tennessee to 22.6 percent in Idaho. Numerically, Missouri tallied the largest increase by selling an additional 28,521 licenses (+4 percent) in 2008. For states selling fewer licenses, the average decrease was 1.7 percent and ranged from 0.3 percent in Alabama and South Carolina to 6.8 percent in Mississippi. Numerically, Mississippi tallied the largest decrease by selling 14,446 fewer licenses in 2008. However, according to a Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries and Parks deer biologist, this decline is misleading as Hurricane Katrina had a major negative impact on license sales in Mississippi in 2005.
License sales rebounded slightlyin 2006, and then jumped in 2007. So, while 2008 license sales are less than in 2007, the number is
likely a return to normalcy for the state. New England states also took it on the chin as Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Vermont all sold fewer licenses in 2008. Fortunately only 29 percent of the survey respondents sold fewer licenses in 2008. Of these 11 states, 9 (82 percent) had 2008 license sales within 3 percent of their 2007 values. In total, 32 of the 38 respondents (84 percent) had 2008 license sales within +/- 5 percent of their 2007 numbers. Regionally, 9 of 11 (82 percent) Midwestern states had increased sales in 2008, 3 of 4 (75 percent) Western states had increased sales, and 7 of 11 (64 percent) Northeastern and Southeastern states had increased sales in 2008. In the Midwest, Missouri had the largest increase adding 28,521 licenses (+4 percent), while Kentucky had the largest decline selling 6,549 fewer licenses (-1.9 percent). In the Northeast, New York added 26,330 licenses (+4.5 percent) while Massachusetts sold 2,306 fewer (-3.3 percent). In the Southeast, Texas sold 19,691 additional licenses (+1.8 percent) and Mississippi sold 14,446 fewer licenses (-6.8 percent). Finally, in the West, Idaho sold 12,692 more licenses (+22.6 percent) while Wyoming sold 2,323 fewer licenses (-2.5 percent). With a declining trend for hunter numbers and reduced wildlife agency budgets, it is encouraging for the majority of states to report license sales increases in 2008. Let’s hope when the 2009 license sales become available they will show a similar increase. We may have turned the corner with declining hunter numbers, and to do so in a tough economy is even more encouraging.
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/12/30 16:12:40
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 16:13:36
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NOW ===== can we get back to discussing getting and keeping youth invovled not deer.... 
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deerfly 
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 16:28:23
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
This from the 2010 QDMA Report on license sales...
In our 2009 Whitetail Report discussed “Hunter Numbers, Demographics and Trends†on pages 23 to 25. In the article we stated that while hunter numbers are in a steady decline, the number of big game hunters was only slightly declining and was even increasing in some states. As Families Afield and other hunter recruitment initiatives continue to attract and retain new hunters, we were interested in the most recent license sales data available from state agencies, so we surveyed wildlife agencies in the continental U.S. and asked for the total number of hunting licenses (number of unique hunters) sold in 2007 and 2008. We received data from 38 states (see map), and 26 (68 percent) reported selling more licenses in 2008 than in 2007! One state sold approximately equal numbers, and only 11 states (29 percent) sold fewer licenses in 2008. For states selling more licenses, the average increase was 3.5 percent and ranged from 0.3 percent in Pennsylvania and Tennessee to 22.6 percent in Idaho. Numerically, Missouri tallied the largest increase by selling an additional 28,521 licenses (+4 percent) in 2008. For states selling fewer licenses, the average decrease was 1.7 percent and ranged from 0.3 percent in Alabama and South Carolina to 6.8 percent in Mississippi. Numerically, Mississippi tallied the largest decrease by selling 14,446 fewer licenses in 2008. However, according to a Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries and Parks deer biologist, this decline is misleading as Hurricane Katrina had a major negative impact on license sales in Mississippi in 2005.
License sales rebounded slightlyin 2006, and then jumped in 2007. So, while 2008 license sales are less than in 2007, the number is
likely a return to normalcy for the state. New England states also took it on the chin as Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Vermont all sold fewer licenses in 2008. Fortunately only 29 percent of the survey respondents sold fewer licenses in 2008. Of these 11 states, 9 (82 percent) had 2008 license sales within 3 percent of their 2007 values. In total, 32 of the 38 respondents (84 percent) had 2008 license sales within +/- 5 percent of their 2007 numbers. Regionally, 9 of 11 (82 percent) Midwestern states had increased sales in 2008, 3 of 4 (75 percent) Western states had increased sales, and 7 of 11 (64 percent) Northeastern and Southeastern states had increased sales in 2008. In the Midwest, Missouri had the largest increase adding 28,521 licenses (+4 percent), while Kentucky had the largest decline selling 6,549 fewer licenses (-1.9 percent). In the Northeast, New York added 26,330 licenses (+4.5 percent) while Massachusetts sold 2,306 fewer (-3.3 percent). In the Southeast, Texas sold 19,691 additional licenses (+1.8 percent) and Mississippi sold 14,446 fewer licenses (-6.8 percent). Finally, in the West, Idaho sold 12,692 more licenses (+22.6 percent) while Wyoming sold 2,323 fewer licenses (-2.5 percent). With a declining trend for hunter numbers and reduced wildlife agency budgets, it is encouraging for the majority of states to report license sales increases in 2008. Let’s hope when the 2009 license sales become available they will show a similar increase. We may have turned the corner with declining hunter numbers, and to do so in a tough economy is even more encouraging.
Why do you insist on using general license sales when the estimated number of buck hunters is available from the PGC? Those are the numbers that clearly express the disgust hunters have for the new DMP and the loss of 200K deer hunters is one of the reasons for lower junior hunter recruitment.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 17:01:51
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I am not getting into another deer debate in this topic...
S-10 posted what he said the QDMA report said and I posted what it really said.. has nothing to do with the PGC....
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deerfly
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 17:29:15
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You tried to cherry pick the data in your original post and then tried to cherry pick the QDMA data and S-10 simply set the record straight. Despite your attempts to defend the PGC DMP,there is no denying it is responsible for the loss of around 200K deer hunters since 2000.
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spoonchucker
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 17:37:34
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" PGC DMP,there is no denying it is responsible for the loss of around 200K deer hunters since 2000."
There IS denying that. While it no doubt IS responsible for a portion of the loss. The amount directly attributable to the DMP, is difficult to quantify, without a significant survey of those who left.
Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference. Step Up, or Step Aside The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody. GL
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deerfly
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 18:04:04
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From 2000 to 2008 junior license sales averaged around 100K/yr., so for every older hunter that quit due to health problems, old age or any other reason, they should have been more than enough junior hunters to take his place. Can you explain why the average age of hunters is increasing with the large number of junior license holders?
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S-10
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 18:10:30
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I'am getting damm tired of you calling me a liar Doc. Read the thing and then Yes, an apology is required. The stats for Pa are in the audit as I said before. QDMA's 2009 whitetail deer reportEmail Print Comments By Don Mulligan ESPNOutdoors.com Archive This year's whitetail roundup is filled with lots of good news for deer hunters and was presented at QDMA's convention by their CEO, who took sides on one of the most controversial topics in deer hunting today. Brian Murphy - QDMA Chief Executive OfficerLOUISVILLE, Ky. — Speaking before a packed house at this year's QDMA convention in Louisville, Ky., Brian Murphy, QDMA Chief Executive Officer, didn't mince his words when describing his biggest concerns for the future of deer hunting. "Television hunting shows and even QDMA misinform hunters at times regarding the true nature of deer hunting," he said. " We all have to do a better job portraying the sport as something more than just the pursuit and harvest of record book bucks." Even more controversial, however, was his statement about high-fence hunting operations. "Though different operations offer very different experiences, I am concerned about the role high-fenced hunting will have on the future of deer hunting and the health of our deer herd in the United States," Murphy said. He cited concerns over the spread of diseases within the deer herd and the role captive farms might play. He also discussed the negative impact privatization of otherwise wild animals would have on hunting. After that, Murphy offered endless research and evidence that we are currently in the midst of "the good old days of deer hunting right now." From 1985 to 2005, the number of whitetail deer in the United States more than doubled, growing from 14 to 30 million animals. In that time hunter numbers have declined, according to the USFWS, but not as drastically across all species. From 1996 to 2006, for example, overall hunter numbers fell 10 percent, but big game hunter numbers only dropped 5 percent. From 2001 to 2006 the decline was only 2 percent. That's manageable, Murphy said, as long as we all continue to portray our sport positively and strive to keep it in the public eye. And by all indications, hunters are doing a good job. According to Murphy, a recent study by a non-hunting group found that 71 percent of all youth believe "hunting is cool." Forty-four percent of the children polled also expressed interest in trying hunting someday. Add to that the fact that the National Archery in the Schools Program grows exponentially every year, and the future looks bright for the sport. None of the good news was meant to imply there won't be changes and challenges coming to deer hunting. "More than any time in history, the American deer hunter is more knowledgeable about the sport, practices QDM, owns land, manages land and conserves it, and is likely to pass the legacy on to his heirs," Murphy said. Even the way we hunt deer will change according to Murphy, who believes hunting co-ops are the future of deer hunting. Currently, 34 percent of today's hunters are part of a co-op, he said. Here are some additional highlights from QDMA's 2009 Whitetail Report. • As a significant indication of the spread of the QDM philosophy, the percentage of yearlings (1 ½-year-olds) in the nationwide buck harvest declined from an average of 51 percent in 1999 to 45 percent in 2005. During this same period the percentage of 2 ½-year-olds increased from 28 to 32 percent and 3 ½-year-olds or older increased from 19 to 23 percent. • Following a nationally published report that dangerous levels of lead was found in donated game meat, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that in fact, the average lead level of the hunters they tested was lower than among average Americans. The original study was eventually questioned after it was shown to originate from a group with a mission of conserving birds of prey. • Incidences of hemorrhagic disease, including both epizootic hemorrhagic disease and bluetongue virus, were few and far between in 2008. That's good news, as 2007 went in the books as the worst year for the disease in at least 50 years. • In 2006, deer hunters spent $12.4 billion on their favorite pastime. This sum is more than half (52 percent) of the total expenditures for every species pursued. Additionally, all hunters combined spend more on their activity ($23 billion) than the total revenues of McDonald's. • It is impossible to control or even predict which bucks breed which does in the wild. Thus, it is difficult to control the genetic traits you select for (or against) by selectively harvesting bucks based on antler characteristics.
post edited by S-10 - 2010/12/30 18:12:37
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 18:54:13
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so now instead of what was in the "QDMA report" you switched to posted === what Don Mulligan (an ESPN reporter) WROTE.... that sure is different than "little facts from the QDMA report" ....  Here's all I see from what you just posted from the ESPN article ... Brian Murphy from QDMA stated... From 1996 to 2006, for example, overall hunter numbers fell 10 percent, but big game hunter numbers only dropped 5 percent. From 2001 to 2006 the decline was only 2 percent.
so that is ALL you posted.... nothing about Pennsylvania or 22% which is and NEVER was in any QDMA report... I did not call you a liar ... what I said and Have said many times is what you post is not always what a person or article or report actually states..it's what you think it said.. you add and make stuff up... as proven above... what you just posted had nothing to do with the actual QDMA report... but here is the NON-truth you posted.... Little fact from the QDMA 2009 report = from 1985 to 2006 overall hunter numbers fell 10% but big game hunters only fell 5%. From 2001-2006 big game hunters only fell 2% nationwide. EXCEPT IN PENNSYLVANIA WHERE THEY FELL 22% FROM 2000 TO 2008.
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/12/30 19:05:27
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deerfly
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 18:58:13
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S-10 did not say the 22% decrease came from the QDMA report. Unlike you,some of us are capable about discussing multiple sources of information in the same thread.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 19:03:57
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I just posted EXACTLY what he wrote.. NICE try to defend you buddy... sort of makes you look less reliable too ... if you're saying he did not say what he said... He did what he always does... and many of you anti guys do.. if someone reads it they think it was from the article.. he NEVER made it clear it was not.. and if guys like me just avoided the conflict some poor soul would believe that the QDMA said that...
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S-10
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 19:16:02
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Don't try it Doc--- What part of "Speaking before a packed house at the QDMA convention Chief Exc Officer" don't you understand-----I posted the 22% several times lately with the source and you know it. You called me a liar again, I proved you wrong again, and this time I want an apology.
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deerfly
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 19:17:55
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No, I am saying that what S-10 said made perfect sense when he cited both the QDMA data and the PGC data. If you find that to be confusing or disturbing that is your problem and not mine or S 10's problem. The PGC data has been posted on numerous occasions so it was not as if S -10 pulled something out of his hat. Just because you start a thread with false and misleading data doesn't mean you get to limit the source of additional information that refutes your mistake.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 19:20:55
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Refering to the PGC he wrote == there is no denying it is responsible for the loss of around 200K deer hunters since 2000. so it's the PGC fault === ..FOLKS THAT WERE DEER HUNTERSIN 2000 (OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS) AND NO LONGER WERE --- .. some hunters died in accidents .. some experienced poor health and had to quit .. some graduated from high school and went out of state to college .. some graduated and when to college and do not have time to hunt .. some graduated and got a job and their new job prevents them from hunting .. some graduated and move out of state for a good/better job .. some died and their obituray plainly states there were avid hunters .. some got a different job and are now on the bottom of the seniorty pole .. some got a new job and can't get time to hunt anymore .. some are unemployed and can't afford the cost of hunting .. some quite hunting that were never deer hunters (about 5% of our hunters do not hunt deer) .. some for various reasons joined the service and are not in Pa anymore .. some juniors got into high school sports and do not have the time .. sdme discovered girls and feel that is more important than hunting .. some just can't afford the sport anymore .. some now have more "family obligations" .. some adult hunters also moved out of state for a better job I could go on and on.. but no way in hell am I going to believe the majority of that 200K quit because of lack of deer or deer sightings...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/12/30 19:21:20
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fishin coyote
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 19:22:50
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So here we go again!!!!
The same 3 posters have to turn a good thread into a pizzing match over deer.
Mike
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fishin coyote
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 19:28:00
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ORIGINAL: ready2fish
Mike, I think alot of people go through that phase. I did. But once life kinda settles down, one begins to realize that time away from work, time in the outdoors, was and still is a big part of them.
Don't totally write your boys off yet.
Thanks R2F. I'll never write them off just hope they find their way home one day Mike
Nothing is Free!! Reward equals Effort
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S-10
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 19:28:51
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Actually it was a good thread BUT it was started by Doc with Bogus information about junior hunters. The QDMA report states the the outlook looks good for junior hunters nationwide.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 19:30:02
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GET REAL.... Speaking before a packed house at the QDMA convention Chief Exc Officer and what you wrote.. Little fact from the QDMA 2009 report = from 1985 to 2006 overall hunter numbers fell 10% but big game hunters only fell 5%. From 2001-2006 big game hunters only fell 2% nationwide. EXCEPT IN PENNSYLVANIA WHERE THEY FELL 22% FROM 2000 TO 2008 are apples and oranges... and sorry deerfly .. I see NOTHING In his post stating any of the info was from the PGC.. he said QDMA.... NO APOLOGY TO S-10 IS COMING FOR THAT..... I belong to QDMA and will NOT see someone post something that is not in their reports or what the director stated at the convention... GO BACK AND EDIT (correct) the post to say that 22% was not from QDMA and it was from the PGC and I have no problem.... or just state it now in a reply .. that you included it in a remark about the QDMA by mistake... that's not asking much IMHO...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/12/30 19:35:58
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deerfly
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 19:32:37
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What happened to the 20K junior hunters that are recruited each year? did they have the same problems as the older hunter? BTW,watch your step, you are skating on thin ice!!
post edited by deerfly - 2010/12/30 19:34:33
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 19:34:59
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Actually it was a good thread BUT it was started by Doc with Bogus information about junior hunters and I quickly posted a correction and an apology... you guys just want to muck a good topic and know I will not stand by and let bullcrap be posted that is not correct about any person or organization I belong to or have faith in... and I apologize (as usual) to others for allowing you guys to get me going with your bullshet
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S-10
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 19:39:16
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You had your chance to be a man and apologise for calling me a liar again and chose to try to squirm out of it. That's your choice. The info is there, it is correct, we both know it. The article states "Here are some additional highlights from the QDMA's 2009 whitetail Report" It is what I said it is. If you decide to be a man, let me know.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 19:40:53
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BTW,watch your step, you are skating on thin ice!!
If that threat means I'll get banned.. so be it.. if it's a personal one from you ...  I think everyone knows how I feel and that I will defend what and who I believe in and express my opinions in a way that is NOT against the rules of thie site... I've been a member here long before you or S-10....
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/12/30 19:42:55
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bingsbaits
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psu_fish
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 19:47:13
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The best analogy I can come up with is this. If you go to your favorite resturant for years and years good food and good service, but suddenly the quaility of food and service is no longer up to par. The first time it happens, you shake it off, but once the bad service repeats itself again and again you quit going to the resturant. This is what I think happen with PA. Take the science and management aspect out of it Doc. People make decisions on emotions and history. 200,000 hunters lost their appetite for PGC cooking having said that : 
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bingsbaits
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 19:54:32
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If the parents aren't outdoors folks it is more than likely the kids will not be either.
It's a different world than when I grew up, way to many other things for them to do..
I think we will continue to see a steady decline in the number of hunters..
Be it beacuse of less deer or all of Doc's excuses, they all play a role...
On the reverse side of Docs arguement we have also added over 1.6 million elligible hunters in the last ten years as the kids turn 12 and can buy a liscence. They should have filled the void of the lost hunters but are not. If you add in the Mentored youth it will reach almost 2.5 million.
I love the sweet smell of Victory and the Salty taste of Liberal Tears in my coffee. BB
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deerfly
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 20:05:02
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
BTW,watch your step, you are skating on thin ice!!
If that threat means I'll get banned.. so be it.. if it's a personal one from you ...
I think everyone knows how I feel
and that I will defend what and who I believe in and express my opinions in a way that is NOT against the rules of thie site...
I've been a member here long before you or S-10....
My reference to skating on thin ice had absolutely nothing to do with you being banned since I have no control over that. My reference was to your claims about senior hunters quitting for the reasons you cited.. Have you even bothered to look at how much the decline in senior hunters would have added to the decrease in the number of deer hunters. if you haven't you should, before you are in ice cold waters up to your eyeballs.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 20:06:45
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Good point Bings...
and with the new "on-line" license stuff the PGC will be able to get a very good idea how those young mentored youths progress in the hunting sport... and even the juniors I am sure they have a count of how many turn that number (license) into an adult one...
The CID should be able to supply quite a bit of the retention info, etc
I have the good fortune of working in a store in the center of an area that has 3 times more "camps" than full time residents... and most of the kids I see from those camps are still very EXCITED about hunting in general and deer hunting as well.. so I continue to hope youth will get and stay involved, I know I do all I can at the club level... and have the help from the PGC folks I know in doing that...
and it is not to often a kid can't come into the store and ask for some type info about animals hunting etc that I do not have something for them... I've probably handed out several hundred PGC pamphlets by now on the various animals , birds, etc and yes deer info too....
I think we all know that the youth are the future of the sport of hunting as a whole...
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deerfly
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 20:13:04
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If you think Bings made some good points, can you explain what happened to all the junior hunters recruited since 2000?
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Getting Youth involved ==
2010/12/30 20:33:47
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Didn't I just post what happened to some of them in my list of "excuses" ??? We have only been able to "track" mentored for a couple years now, so we can see how many of them turn into junior hunters... but will have to wait for that info...as I said that's where the future is... just keep in mind I have NEVER said some folks old and young and in the middle have not quit because of deer or the PGC in general ... I just don't buy what you're trying to sell as the #1 reason for all those 200K leaving the sport....
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/12/30 20:35:05
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