Getting Youth involved ==

Since we lost so many after AR/HR more deer would help. Parents arent hunting and in turn they wont pass it down to son/daughter.

Kids want to see and shoot deer, since they have lower attention spans and lack patience to sit in the woods sun-up to sun-down for several days. I believe there is a talk of an adult hunter passing down a doe tag to mentored youth? Good idea, imo

To compete with Xbox and computers you have to put deer in front of kids. The Jr combo license is what $9.75? thats a steal, no need to lower it

It all falls back to the parents.

Baby Jesus has descended upon the boards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I AGREE!!!!!!!!!!

Ironhed

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

Thought I would try one last post before bed time...


we all hear about youth not hunting because of lack of deer.. is this really true.. let's look at some interesting facts..


I'll use deerfly's favorite quote (actually something Dr Alt said) we had about 1.6 million deer before AR/HR running around the state


WE also had 98,233 junior res. hunter is 1998... lots of hunters lots of deer...

still 1.6 million according to Alt in 1999 but for some reason we lost about 36,000 youth license sales (down to 62,586)... 36,000 that's AMAZING....

2000.. and now we heard about the 1.6 and we still lose another 5,000 youths ( now it's only 57,661)....

that's over 40,000 IN TWO YEARS... before AR/HR even started... now we keep losing youths ..

folks want us to beleive it is because of lack of deer... bull I say... we lost 40,000 when we had 1.6 million deer running around...

OKAY == so here's what I am interested in.. what IF ANYTHING can we do as a fraternity of hunters to get and keep youth invloved..???

since we lost so many before AR/HR I do not truly think more deer is the answer....

maybe it's just something we will have to learn to live with === younger kids (the next generation) are not interested in hunting ... plain and simple...


what's your thoughts ????

more seasons ??
no limits ??
free licenses ??
either sex deer ??


?????????????????

Look who is cherry picking data and misrepresenting the facts. In 1998 the PGC sold 98,985 jr. licenses. But 2001 sales increased to 102,827 and by 2004 they increased to 106,162. Once the effects of HR became obvious to many, junior sales then decreased to 89,571 in 2008.

ORIGINAL: tippecanoe

it comes down to their folks not making time to take them hunting, nothing more, nothing less. 

Sums it up.  When my uncle called and offered to take me squirrel hunting when I was a kid, couldn't sleep.  Deer were not even on the radar. 

Little passion exists among adults any more for hunting.  Those of us that care can only try to make a difference.
 
I am taking my 8 y/o nephew out with me flintlock hunting this Friday.  He is up from Florida and has never been to a hunting camp.   He cannot wait and neither can I.

I think a big mistake is if and when the youth make their first trip afield, the expectations are set too high for them by the mentor, whoever that may be.
 
I have gotten my kids started already by just taking hikes in the woods and looking at buck rubs, deer and other animal tracks, bird nests, squirrel nests, etc..  Heck, in the summer time, finding a small stream that has salamanders and crawdads in it can be a 3-4 hr excursion when you have a few clean, empty clear plastic mayo jars in hand...  You'd be amazed at what a 2.5  and 4.5 yr old will find amazing out in the woods.  Took 10 mins. to just find the perfect walking stick on one walk....but they had fun.  They need to get started with the small stuff first, IMO. 
 
Squirrel hunting will be my kids first experience in the woods with gun in hand. 

ORIGINAL: deerfly

That is simply not true. I have started several junior hunters deer hunting in the past and all of them quit despite my efforts.

 
I applaud your attempts.
 
IMO, deer are the worst species to start kids out on, even when humbers are high.  Season is short, weather iffy and success low.
 
My best success with kids has been squirrels, scouting trips, target shooting and outdoor time in general. 

ORIGINAL: deerfly

My best success with kids has been squirrels, scouting trips, target shooting and outdoor time in general. 

There aren't many kids that I know that want to skin and eat squirrels.

 
 
those kids don't belong in the outdoors then. 
 
i couldnt wait to hunt when i was 12.  i remember riding the bus and seeing all the bushy tails hanging from my older friends clothslines.  i was very excited to start hunting squirells.

Those kids are un-likely to develope any sustainable interest in deer hunting either. Regardless of the numbers. By age 12 kids either have an interest in outdoor activities, or they don't. You might be able to develope it in a few, but very few.

From the time I was old enough to leave the yard alone ( pretty young in that time, and in our community ). I, and my friends spent far more time in the neighboring woodlots, than in our houses. Building "forts", chasing Squirrels & Chippies with our pea shooters, and just poking around to see what we could find. By the time we reach "legal" hunting age, hunting was just a natural extension of our activities.

I, apparently like many got started fishing, trapping, and hunting squirrels, rabbits, and deer. What kept me interested and what has kept my children interested is the ACTION. There were lots of squirrels and rabbits to see and chase and you could depend on seeing a fair number of deer. Even then it wasn't so much the kill as it was the excitment of seeing and trying to kill them. I could be freezing on deer stand but as soon as I saw a deer I was in a sweat.
Even now for the grandkids it is seeing deer or whatever it is they are after that keeps them coming back. If you can show them Action you will keep their interest. Nothing will cause them to lose interest faster than long hours without seeing the quarry they are after. More or longer seasons is not going to help if it means more hours of fruitless search for game.
Creating a false impression of hunting by allowing them to shoot any buck will keep some interest until they reach 18 but from experience many will quit after that. My grandkids have killed 13 bucks as mentored or juniors. One was AR legal. They know what that means for their future without me telling them.

ORIGINAL: mohawksyd

All plausible points.

We had some young blood join us for bear season this year. He remembered his Nintendo and his cell phone, but forgot his boots, knife, and compass.

 
That's is classic!! 

well I had to jump back in to clear up something..

As I sometimes do I wrote asking for info and received an answer but was not exactly what I wanted....

my figures were not 100% correct.. I ask for junior resident licenses sales and that's what I got.. I was not aware they added a combination license and the 36,000 went from just a junior license to a combo.. so deerfly is correct we have not lost that many as a whole...  SORRY !!!!

now == I am enjoying the input on this topic... and have a question...

one thing I think helped my interest in animals , hunting, and the outdoors in general was cub scouts and boy scouts... is that something that has also become a thing of the past ?????

another was when I was in high school everyone had to take Biology.... is that another thing gone because of being politically correct ????

All of the above posts provide some very good reasons why youths are not becoming involved in hunting.  Here is another one -- they simply don't want to.  Even where members of the household hunt (which is decreasing as evidenced by declining license sales), many youths just are not into going hunting.  The reason really doesn't matter.  It could be the lack of seeing deer.  It could be the lack of harvesting something when they do go.  It could be the weather.  It could be the physical nature of hunting.  It could be needing to pay attention.  It could be they have other things that they are currently doing that they like and won't give up the time doing that to even try hunting.  It could be the lack of a role model.  It could be societal pressures not to hunt.
 
What it isn't, is the lack of opportunity.  There are vastly more opportunities for youths to hunt than there were back in the Stone Age when I started.  There are youth seasons, mentored seasons, preserves where a license isn't needed, clubs, etc.  Yet, none of them seem to be working.
 
I used to work at a plant in rural PA that had over 800 employees.  Many of them hunted.  When the youth pheasant hunt came about, I posted on the bulletin board that I would take the first 10 (5 in the morning and 5 in the afternoon) youths (and their parents as chaperones if they wanted) pheasant hunting on the nearby gamelands over my brace of pointers.  I expected to need to turn away dozens of youth hunters and even devised a plan by which those that couldn't go this year because I reached the maximum would be afforded the first opportunity for the next season.  I got 3 responses.
 
Those three hunted half a day and the dogs pointed over 30 birds.  There was some shooting done, but no birds were killed.
 
The next season, I did the same thing.  I had two signups -- a brother and sister.  None of the previous year's youth hunter wanted to go.  When asked why not, their parents responded that they didn't see the point in going when they didn't kill a bird.
 
The next season I three sign ups and they all cancelled the day before.  One decided to go ride ATV's with their neighbor instead.  One was invited to a video game party.  Once decided that they didn't have enough time between band practice in the morning and soccor practice in the afternoon to squeeze in a hunting trip.
 
My nephew was wanted to go along on a pheasant hunt, so we took him to our club.  His mother didn't want him to touch a gun (he was 12 and his father worked in a prison, so they had guns in the house), but he was okay with just going along.  In the first hour the dogs had pointed several birds and we had shot most of them.  At this point he was kicking dirt on the ground with his toe and announced that he was bored and wanted to go home.  I let him shoot the shotgun and he though that was great.  Now can we go home?
 
I came across a youth hunter and his two grandfathers, whom I recognized as pheasant club members that had good dogs, before the start of a youth season.  I asked where they were going to hunt so that we didn't get our groups into the same area.  The youth said that he wanted to hunt X area.  I was pleased that his grandfathers let him decided where to go -- he was 15.  I asked why he wanted to hunt that area, expecting an answer like "I have had success there before, etc."  His answer -- its flatter.
 
I became involved with a youth hunt at a local preserve this year.  Again, this is a fairly rural area and many of the parents hunt.  While there was a cost to participate, $50 per kid, namely to make sure that there was a committment to show up, that cost was very low compared to the 8 pheasants that were stocked per youth, the lunch that was provided, the two door prizes per youth that were provided, the clay target shooting, the .22 rifle shooting, the archery shooting, and the dog demonstrations that were being held or given away.  This was the 5th year for the event that was advertised via a 40K circulation newspaper, through email campaigns from the preserve, vendors, sportsman's clubs, etc., and other promotions.  There were 30 spots allocated.  We ended up with 18 hunters -- 12 of which were repeats.
 
A good friend of mine brought his son (who was 10 at the time) along on a trip to the pheasant club.  The weather was nice.  The dogs pointed 20+ birds in four hours.  We shot most of them.  When asked his thoughts on the hunt the youth said that it was neat, but he though we would see many more birds.  What chance does this kid have of sticking with it under normal field conditions?  How long is this kid going to deer hunt in lousy weather?
 
Typically at the end of the preserve season another member (who has bred, raised, and trained world class bird dogs) and I convert our leftover bird units to quail and have a big quail hunt (normally over 100 quail are stocked) on Good Friday.  I bring one friend and he brings his grandson.  We hunt the morning, have lunch in the clubhouse while the birds covey back up, and then hunt the afternoon.  The first year, when his grandson was 15, we had a grand day with his grandson shooting more than three boxes of ammunition.  The second year, the grandson hunted in the morning, had lunch, but told his grandfather that he could not hunt the afternoon because he had to go to a voluntary workout for football (yes, in the spring).  The thrid year, the grandson decided not to go because he had weight training with his personal trainer that day (he was trying to get into one of the military acadamies on a football scholarship) and didn't want to go to training when he was tired from hunting.  His grandfather ended up not going either and has since given up hunting birds and training bird dogs.
 
I guess the questions I would like to put forth in this post are:
 
How many youths participated in the opportunities that were presented via mentored hunts, youth hunts, etc. would have hunted anyway because their role model hunted?  The extra opportunites did not bring these kids to the sport.
 
How many youths particiapted in these increased opportunities that did not have a role model that hunted and are basically completely new to hunting but they wanted to give it a try?  These are those that the youth hunts are targeting to grow the sport.
 
How many of the above stuck with hunting beyond the youth opportunities?  If they didn't, the sport didn't grow.
 
I guess my point to all of this is there are a whole lot more reasons for a kid to not start hunting or even if they start, not stick with it, than there are for them to start and stay hunting.  An no number of programs is going to change that.  And that is too bad.

ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout

one thing I think helped my interest in animals , hunting, and the outdoors in general was cub scouts and boy scouts... is that something that has also become a thing of the past ?????

another was when I was in high school everyone had to take Biology.... is that another thing gone because of being politically correct ????

Good questions Doc. Here's what I've observed.

My kids (who are 9 & 7)have several friends/classmates involved in scouting. Most that I can think of off the top of my head have parents that don't hunt, or may hunt 2 or 3 times a year for deer. While it may increase appreciation for the outdoors in general, I would think it has little to do with getting kids hunting. Seems to be more emphasis these days on character building and community service, rather than outdoor adventure and skills, but I'm not involved in scouting so I can't say for certain.

Biology is still required for high school students in a college prep curriculum in most school districts that I know of. In fact, in our school district biology education is starting even younger. Kids in late elementary/early middle school are working with animals and doing dissections in our district. My 4th grade daughter has a cage full of crabs in her bedroom that her class used in a science experiment. One of her 6th grade friends has done some dissection in science class this year.

I was a bio major in college (graduated in '97). Thought I would find a lot of outdoor/hunting types in my classes, but most were on track for medical or research related careers and not wildlife biology or ecology. In fact, most of my classmates and professors in bio classes were more of the anti-hunting type.

In high school and college biology, we had some units of instruction that focused on ecology, but most of it focused on the hard core science of it - genetics, physiology, morphology/embryology and microbiology.

I was a bio major in college (graduated in '97). Thought I would find a lot of outdoor/hunting types in my classes, but most were on track for medical or research related careers and not wildlife biology or ecology. In fact, most of my classmates and professors in bio classes were more of the anti-hunting type.

r2, i was a bio major (unfulfilled) in the early to mid 70s and it was the same thing. most were destined for the medical fields and none were hunters. had a course in natural resources/conservation at ohio state and there were more of our type there.

"All of the above posts provide some very good reasons why youths are not becoming involved in hunting. Here is another one -- they simply don't want to. Even where members of the household hunt (which is decreasing as evidenced by declining license sales), many youths just are not into going hunting. The reason really doesn't matter. It could be the lack of seeing deer. It could be the lack of harvesting something when they do go. It could be the weather. It could be the physical nature of hunting. It could be needing to pay attention. It could be they have other things that they are currently doing that they like and won't give up the time doing that to even try hunting. It could be the lack of a role model. It could be societal pressures not to hunt.

What it isn't, is the lack of opportunity. There are vastly more opportunities for youths to hunt than there were back in the Stone Age when I started. There are youth seasons, mentored seasons, preserves where a license isn't needed, clubs, etc. Yet, none of them seem to be working."


excellent, dardys. a lot of the guys whom i hunted with over the years had kids who just were not interested in hunting or who lost interest to other hobbies or sports. being an antique, i remember when there were few, if any turkeys, much smaller populations of deer, and geese were a prize, if you were lucky enough to get one or two a year. now we have all three, in addition to fox and soon-to-be coyotes living in the suburbs where i live.