And what trend may that be?

That the years leading up to AR/HR saw a increasing number of record book bucks as well as an increasing buck kill and in spite of AR allowing the majority of deer to gain another years antler growth, that extra year has not resulted in an increase of record book bucks.

ARs were implemented for most of the state in 2002, right? AR became mandatory statewide in 2003(SRAs). Seeing that 2003 was the first year that 1.5YO were somewhat "protected" statewide, logic says that a larger percentage of 2.5YO bucks would be present in 2004, and a larger percentage of 3.5YO would be present in 2005, ect. I don't recall seeing many(if any) 2.5YO bucks making B&C. Again, thinking logically, the first year it could be reasonably expected to see an increase in B&C bucks would be when the first statewide "protected" class of bucks made it to 3.5YO(at least). I would consider 2005 or even 2006(to realize the potential of 4.5YO bucks) to be the first year when the amount of B&C would potentially increase. With only 3(2) years of reasonable data presented, I don't think much of a conclusion can be drawn. 5+ more years of data will show a better trend and minimize localized and seasonal error.

Also, it makes more sense to compare the number of B&C bucks to the number of bucks harvested in that particular year. With such a varience in the buck harvest over the last 20 years looking at nothing more than the number of bucks entered makes little sense.

My mistake, I just assumed they were B&C. What constitutes a book buck as presented by RSB?

My mistake, I just assumed they were B&C. What constitutes a book buck as presented by RSB?

RSB will have to confirm it but I believe it is all bucks over 140 taken with the gun and all over 115 taken with the bow with a slightly higher standard for non-typ.

Here are the minimums.
 
The categories and minimum scores for inclusion in the “Pennsylvania Book” are: Typical White-tailed Deer — Firearm, 140-0/8; Typical White-tailed Deer — Archery, 115-0/8; Nontypical White-tailed Deer — Firearm, 160-0/8; Nontypical White-tailed Deer — Archery, 135-0/8
 
 
Nobody mentioned that 6 of the top 10 archery bucks for PA records have been taken since 2004.
 
I presented the P & Y entries months back and the "bucks are no bigger now" guys didn't like it too much.  It was stated that they are a count of "entries" not actual kills, which is exactly true.  I'm surprised I haven't heard that yet when they are defending their position. 
 
Anyway, post AR, despite alot less deer, blows preAR out of the water.
 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 

ORIGINAL: wayne c

Proof the promise of "more and bigger bucks" was completely false. The statement wasnt made back in the 80's either. It was made around the time of the highest deer herd, and highest record book entries.

 
Is it completely false ?  Based on what ?  "Entries"  ?
 

Based on the fact that we only harvested 108 K buck in 2009 and carried over around 52K 1.5 buck. m that to 2001 when we harvested 203K buck and carried over at least 60K buck for a total PS buck population of over 260K compared to a preseason buck population of around 165K in 2009

Just imagine the bucks that weren't turned in!(by PA's standards)  lol
Hell I know of many, many deer that would make P&Y and they were definately not submitted in the last 5 years!

Ironhed

"I would have no problem finding a dozen bucks or more killed in my little corner of the state that would certainly meet that criteria. With that in mind, his numbers seem very low to me."

Same couldve been said for 2000.

There is no reason why hunters wouldve "ALL" submitted their bucks in 2000, then all of the sudden, ever since they started deciding not to submit them all of a sudden with less each and every year since.


-More and bigger bucks with a fraction of the herd...

S-10, or anyone:
How does the PGC define "record book"?

By the minimum entry score that Silverkype posted for typical and non-typical.

ORIGINAL: Ironhed

Just imagine the bucks that weren't turned in!(by PA's standards)  lol
Hell I know of many, many deer that would make P&Y and they were definately not submitted in the last 5 years!

Ironhed

 
Until the rampant TV coverage of "inches", hardly any one turned them in, so that is a nonarguement.
 
The evolution (or demise from some people's point of view) went something like this from the 1940's toward today. -- 1) I got a deer.  2) I got a buck.  3) I got a buck that had a big set of horns (I know, they are antlers, but that was the venacular).  4) I got an X-point buck.  5) I got an X-point buck and it had a Y inch spread.  6) I got an X-point buck with a Y inch spread and it measured Z inches.  7) I got a z inch raw score buck, that measuered A after drying.  I scouted the deer with 20 camersa for 2 years by drawing him into the 9 different food plots that I planted, the 7 "magic" stumps that he liked to visit for some unknown reason (wink, wink) and I shot him with (enter the name of the product you hope to huckster).
 
While those that used to harvest a buck every other year or every third year with the amount of effort and time that they could fit into their lives and not turn deer hunting into a second job would be very content with either # 1 or # 2 above.

Here is the buck harvest data since 2001.


Buck Harvest Data


Year Total 1.5 buck 2.5+ buck % 2.5+

2001 203,247 159,346 44,700 21.6

2002 165,416 112,814 52,900 31.8

2003 142,270 80.240 62,600 43.6

2004 124,410 62.011 62,000 50.2

2005 120,500 62,700 57,800 48

2006 135,290 75.762 59,527 44

2007 109,200 61,152 48,048 44

2008 122,000 63,440 59,200 48

2009 108,300 53,082 55,200 51


Note that in 2009 we harvested 2000 more 2.5+ buck than 1.5 buck,but only because we harvested about 10K fewer 1.5 buck in 2009 than in 2008. It will be interesting to see how the reduced number of 1.5 buck last year effects this years 2.5+ buck harvest.

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

Here are the minimums.

The categories and minimum scores for inclusion in the “Pennsylvania Book” are: Typical White-tailed Deer — Firearm, 140-0/8; Typical White-tailed Deer — Archery, 115-0/8; Nontypical White-tailed Deer — Firearm, 160-0/8; Nontypical White-tailed Deer — Archery, 135-0/8


Nobody mentioned that 6 of the top 10 archery bucks for PA records have been taken since 2004.

I presented the P & Y entries months back and the "bucks are no bigger now" guys didn't like it too much.  It was stated that they are a count of "entries" not actual kills, which is exactly true.  I'm surprised I haven't heard that yet when they are defending their position. 

Anyway, post AR, despite alot less deer, blows preAR out of the water.

 
I see you don't mention anything about the ubiquitous "tail length" measurement.
 
What's up with that?

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

Hadn't seen that feller. Didn't look real hard but spent some time there preseason. Didn't hunt there once this year in season. A lot of 1.5 bucks disperse late summer/early fall so who knows where he's at. Probably in a freezer now.

 
Or on his way into the tail length record book.
 
Maybe Alt meant tail length and not antler size when he said bigger bucks.
 
How does 12-30 sound to you for the pheasant adventure?

ORIGINAL: DarDys

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

Hadn't seen that feller. Didn't look real hard but spent some time there preseason. Didn't hunt there once this year in season. A lot of 1.5 bucks disperse late summer/early fall so who knows where he's at. Probably in a freezer now.

Or on his way into the tail length record book.

Maybe Alt meant tail length and not antler size when he said bigger bucks.

How does 12-30 sound to you for the pheasant adventure?

12-30 is good.