This site also de-bunked the supposed PA cougar kill in Butler Co./Westmoreland Co./Allegheny Co./Eastern Ohio
http://easterncougar.org/CougarNews/?p=1436

Some points:

1. Any "wild" mountain lion seen in PA would be considered an eastern cougar (Puma concolor couguar) and would therefore be an endangered species and highly illegal to shoot. If this were indeed the case, doubt if the PGC would just show up, take a few pics, then leave after telling the parties to "be quiet about it." The shooter(s) would be facing hefty fines, and the discovery of a legit eastern cougar in the wild would generate much excitement in the scientific community, as well as headlines around the nation.

2. If there are indeed wild mountain lions in PA, then why no bona fide attacks on humans? In the west, particularly California, there are occasional attacks, even fatalities on humans by wild cougars. However, no recorded attacks on humans by wild cougars in PA, or any other eastern state for that matter, in modern times. Are these supposed wild cougars roaming all over PA just pacifists or something?

3. Why no photos on trail cameras? Cougars have now been confirmed in the states of Minnesota, Wisconsin, and the upper peninsula of Michigan by photos found on trail cameras. Are these mystic PA mountain lions just that much smarter than those now found in MN, WI, and MI that they can manage to avoid ALL of the trail cameras in PA?

4. Why no carcasses? Even the Florida Panther, which is numbered around 100 animals at MOST is hit along the highways quite frequently. In fact, 2009 saw a record 17 number of Florida Panthers hit along the highways of south Florida. There are also a few that are shot each year either deliberately or accidentally, but manage to be recovered. If there have been these sightings all over PA for the past several decades, then why have there been ZERO carcasses recovered? You'd think that over the past 40 years or so, at least ONE legit wild cougar carcass would've turned up somewhere, if they were indeed roaming Penn's Woods.

5. "Black helicopter" PA Game Commission theories abound. I've heard that the PGC, in cooperation with the insurance industry, has a "top-secret" program that has been releasing cougars, coyotes, wolves, etc. into the wilds of PA for some years now. Of course, this is to control the deer population and thus reduce deer-car collisions and save the insurance companies money. If this is true, then where is the paper trail? Who do the PGC/insurance companies buy these cougars from? Why is there no public record of the state legislature approving such a program? I'll admit that I'm not the biggest fan of the PGC right now (antler restrictions ring a bell?), but c'mon folks...even the CIA isn't THAT secretive! To increase profits, the insurance industry buys police radar guns...it doesn't buy the PGC cougars!!!

6. Black panther sightings. There has never been a confirmed black cougar in recorded history. Any large black cat would be a melanistic jaguar, which does not even live in North America. If a so-called black panther is sighted, then it is undoubtedly an escaped captive that is not of North American origin.

I agree, I think the text is BS as well. But i do believe we have them here in Pa. I talked to a PAGC warden while I was in the Poconos a few years ago and he said he has seen them personally. The GC won't admit that we have them officially, but why would a GC warden lie about it, of course it was off the record, but still why would he make it up ?

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr

Cougar Man

Several rebuttals,

1. The Eastern Cougar is extinct, that is generally agreed on, so an appearance here in PA would more than likely be a Western, which would not make it an endangered species. The ones in michigan are not considered eastern's so what would make one found here automatically an eastern, more likely a released pet, or migrated western.

 
I agree with you about eastern cougars probably being extinct and any found here being of the western variety.  However, the law still makes no distinction between the two, if a truly wild one (of either taxonomy) is ever indeed found in PA.  Here is what the Eastern Cougar Foundation has to say about this topic:
 
Eastern cougars (now known as Puma concolor couguar) and the Florida panther (now known as Puma concolor coryi) are fully protected under the Endangered Species Act. Because no one can visually distinguish these subspecies from other possible cougar subspecies in the woods, and because even DNA analysis cannot define a genetic profile for the eastern cougar subspecies, all cougars living wild in the east must be considered protected under the Act from all harm and harassment.

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr2. Human attacks in CA occur in areas where cougar populations are unchecked because of the ban on hunting. Populations have grown and now many home ranges overlap with areas of human activity.

Very true.  Many naturalists consider the increasing frequency of cougar attacks in California and other western states in recent years to be a result of humans encroaching on cougar territory.
 

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr3. My guess on the lack of trail camera sightings is that the habitat we are talking about for cougars is probably the wooded lightly populated areas of the state. most of the trail cams are not located in these remote locations.

The Eastern Cougar Foundation placed trail cameras for a study in several eastern states, with the hope that at least one would capture what would appear to be a wild cougar living in the east.  Unfortunately, none of them documented anything of the sort.  Even if these cougars were to somehow evade all of the trail cameras in PA, I'd be willing to bet that if there were indeed wild eastern cougars living at least somewhere in the east, these trail cameras would have picked up something.  After all, the cougars in Michigan and Wisconsin probably number less than 10 individuals total, but they managed to be photographed on trail cameras.  

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr4. Have you ever tried to purposely hit a house cat with your car? It is not easy probably the most difficult mammal to hit with a vehicle. This combined with the fact that if we are discussing a population it is probably less than 10 animals, maybe less than 5 in the entire state. With little competition for territory an animal would not be forced into as much human contact as it would in areas with higher populations.

Even if the figures you cite were accurate, I'd think that in the last say 50 years or so, we would have at least ONE carcass show up somewhere in the state of a bona fide wild eastern cougar. 
 
And no, I have never tried to hit a house cat with my car!
 

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr5. The PGC doesn't even have enough money to run registration for the youth field days this summer so I am not buying the introduction theory either.

 
If the PGC were to re-introduce cougars in the state, they would not only announce it publicly, they would undoubtedly try to profit off it as well!  Similar to the elk hunting raffle sham that they introduced several years back, I could see them doing something similar, only charging hundreds of dollars to even participate in a "drawing" for cougar hunting licenses, which of course would cost an arm and a leg too.  If there's a way to make money off of it, the PGC comes through better than a used car salesman!

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr6. When the PGC changed thier position last year from "They are not here" , to "There is not a breeding population", that means they have some evidence of them.

 
Is there evidence of cougars in PA?  Perhaps.  Evidence of truly wild cougars in PA? No.  The PGC has never denied the existence of cougars in this state, only the existence of wild ones.

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr

Unfortunatley the Eastern Cougar Foundation does not have the final say. It is what the US Fish & Wildlife service thinks that matters when it comes to weather you will be charged with shooting an Federally Endangered Species. USFWS lists two seperate subspecies Eastern & Western.

Easteren is endangerd western is not. That does not mean that a western cougar in PA is not protected, just not by the USFWS.

The only way that you would not be in some hot water if you shot a cougar in PA would be because of one of the following:

1. The USFWS eventually decides to de-list the eastern cougar from the endangered species list because either they a). consider it completely extinct, or b). merge the eastern cougar along with the western cougar and Florida panther into a single North American cougar species, which of course would not be endangered because of the thriving population out west.

2. The cougar is a known escapee from captivity, as with what happened in 1967 in Crawford County, where a special "cougar hunt" was conducted to kill two non-native cougars that escaped from an enclosure in nearby Ohio. 

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr
Second you should be trying to hit house cats, they are putting a big part of the hit on our small game populations.

The fact that you apparently try to kill people's pet cats is completely absurd.  I have been a farmer for years, and have kept cats in my barn for both pets and to control the rat population.  Besides the companionship they have provided for my wife and I, they have undoubtedly saved us thousands of dollars over the years in grain being eaten by rats.  If I ever found someone deliberately trying to kill my cats, this person would become an endangered species all to himself.

Besides...by your logic, don't dogs wreak more harm on wildlife than house cats ever have?  Do you spend your time driving around trying to kill people's pet dogs as well?

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr
And actually if you search the Pgc website, they spent several years saying that there were none, before they came to thier senses and reworded thier responses.

As I said, if the PGC did indeed change their official stance on cougars in PA, it had nothing to do with the sudden appearance of wild cougars in the state.  It would be because they now recognize that there are escaped pet cougars out there.

you can find all kinds of nittany lions in state college, pa... i dont know why they're endangered

My grandfather who was a WCO used to say there is nothing a cat can do that .50c worth of decon can't do better without the loss of songbirds and small game. That was nearly 60 years ago so the .50c is a bit low today.

Great post,****bush, and I'm glad that you recognize that not all sportsmen need to have the hide hanging on their wall as proof that they truly enjoy the sport!!

Best first post ever.

I said it before and I will say it again I SHOOT ALL CATS AND DOGS THAT COME ON MY PROPERTY!! All they do is damage.

CougarMan,
I have a right to protect my property. I agree with you Muskymastr on the cats, and you on the dogs. Shoot them!

Don't worry...I don't really think those guys kill cats.  After all, how else would they get any p*ssy???

TheDrake,
Perfectly legal. The get into trash, kill and disturb my animal, tear apart things on my property. I had them get into my barn and tear apart insulation and other things I had in storage there.

MuskyMastr,
Thank you! Very informative!

Feral cats are a problem....
You shoot my dog cause he crapped on your back 40 and you would have a huge problem..

Sounds like you need to find yourself a hobby or a new hobby.

And what about dogs that do serious damage to MY property and MY animals? Not big game animals, im talkig about live stock.