Possible ban on Deer Lure

I rarely use it ... so I could care less one way or the other...

but it is unsettling that it will just be another tool in dividing the sportsmen in this state..

The ban is designed to help stop the possible transmission of CWD and other wildlife diseases.

Sounds like the same ole argument against winter feeding...

gathering too many deer in one area helps spread disease... ???????

these guys need to get out into the woods in the winter and see the wintering yards the deer flock to... talk about a bunch of deer eating, peeing, pooping etc in one area !!!!!

or are they going to figure out a way to stop that "gathering" of a large number of deer...


putting out some Tinks 49 is going to draw in how many deer at one time.... ???


how many deer gather at that buck scrape -- peeing in it --- smelling it --etc at one time..

they going to outlaw that too...


RIDICULOUS....

wow, doc, you actually went against pgc...you might be coming around to be like one of us...did you find that website..?..I couldn't find it anywhere..got another picture of collared deer..

I think the banning of any urine based lures and scents would be a very good step toward preventing or at least reducing the likelihood of seeing CWD in our state.
 
They now know for certain that CWD can be found and spread in deer urine. If the urine is collected bottled and sold from a deer that had CWD the CWD can be spread with that urine. Since urine used to make lures and scents comes from captive deer herds where CWD is most likely to be found the possibility of ending up with CWD in a bottle of urine based lure is really pretty high.
 
When hunters use a urine-based lure they generally spread it on the ground to attract other deer, usually a buck. Once the CWD preon is placed in the soil it greatly increases the power of the CWD preons (if I remember correctly it is like seven times as potent). Therefore once the CWD preons become mixed with the soil, as they do when lure or urine, is spread on the ground the probability of deer in the area getting CWD is much higher then even nose to nose contact.
 
Once CWD is in the soil it might be that it can never be de-structured, and that is what would have to happen since CWD is not a living organism or virus that can be killed. They have found that even after removing cervids from a CWD contaminated pen, burning it over, treating it with lime and letting it set fallow for up to like seven years that once they put deer or elk back in the fenced pen they too came down with CWD. That is a clear indication that the CWD stays viable in the soil for a long time, and perhaps forever.
 
Based on what is known and what is not known I think making it unlawful to use urine based lures and scents would be a step in the right direction. Until they do pass such a law or regulation I think hunters should voluntarily change the ways they use urine based lures. If hunters want to use any urine based lure or scent they should place it on some cotton balls in a bottle and then just set the bottle on the ground or hang it in a tree so it isn’t spilled onto the ground. Then when they end their hunt for the day they can put a lid on the bottle of urine covered cotton balls, put it in their pocket or pack and take it with them. As long as hunters don’t get it out of the enclosed bottle on to the soil or plant life and only unscrew the cap to release the scent there is less likely to be a problem in the future. But, the safest thing to do would be to make the urine based lures illegal.
 R.S. Bodenhorn  

I agree with your logic RSB, however CWD is no different than any other invasive our state has faced. It is coming and we can not stop it. We have had very limited success in stopping an invasives and disease in the past and I see no measures in place that make me think we will be any more successful now. Deer scent bans are not going to stop the spread of CWD.

ORIGINAL: World Famous

So,if 1 deer ,has CWD, everywhere it pees the disease will always be in the soil?? If I read that right, the states where CWD has been found will never be able to support deer again. I must be missing something somewhere in what was explained...WF

 
When CWD arrives in this state it will be very devastating to the deer herd in the affected areas, though mostly from efforts to contain it and prevent it from spreading. First of all CWD is always fatal, there is no known cure and so far it seems to be impossible to de-structure of destroy the preons resulting from CWD infected cervids once they are found in the soil.
 
When it is discovered an attempt will be made to kill, test and dispose of all cervids within a five-mile radius. If CWD is found in any of those tested that expands the radius of the depopulation attempt until no more CWD cases are found. When CWD is found it is also hard to get hunters willing to hunt deer in the affected areas thus creating additional deer management problems.
 
The higher the deer population is in the infected area the harder it is to contain and more deer and elk typically involved in the depopulation efforts.
 
The reason you still have cervids in the infected areas after CWD is discovered is that CWD is not fast acting. It might take several years of exposure before an animal develops the abnormal spongaforms in the brain that turn into a case of CWD and cause it to become fatal to the deer. It is most likely to be found in the adult deer or elk so they are still reproducing the replenishing the population even while many of the species are dying. It would usually not wipe out entire populations though it certain can result in significant reductions.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn      

cannot test for cwd until the animal is dead.I don't think there is any way to test an animal when it is still alive.

ORIGINAL: Ironhed

So why not require all commercial deer farmers to have their animals tested on an annual basis?

Very similar to the VHS virus and bait dealers when it comes to fish.

Ironhed

 
To test for CWD you have to remove the brain stem from the cervid, so testing before the animal is dead is not possible. Cervid propagators in Pennsylvania are under the regulations of the Department of Agriculture and are required to have any animals that die tested for a number of things. Of course not everyone abides by the laws and regulations, as they are required, so it is hard to tell how many of them actually get tested when they die.
 
The Game Commission tests all elk killed by either accident of by hunters and about 4000 or so deer harvested by hunters each year for CWD. So far it has not been found in the state and we would like it to stay that way.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

I am currently looking at a bottle of lure from wildlife research center company, and it has a statement on the package saying: "Urine source is in a continuous cwd monitoring program. All tests have been cwd free when this bottle was filled"

That is exactly why I asked the question.

What do they do, lop the deer's head off, do a CWD test then take the urine? lol

Ironhed

ORIGINAL: wayne c

As for the label, dont know. Maybe they do when the deer die, through generations. If grandparents got old..died and tested negative, as did parents of the current urine givers, theres no reason to believe it possible for the current crop to be cwd positive .

Ive also heard of studies trying to get a viable method for live testing. Dont know how thats going.

Aside from actual testing, if they have record of the health history of the deer in their farm and that of the parentage etc. more than one generation. And know there is no chance they currently are being exposed to the prions... I think it safe to say that the odds of obtaining affected urine is far far lower than dealing with operations where no safeguards are in place.

In case anyones not following, heres an example; If i had raised 2 or 3 generations of deer with no cwd, and yu have raised 2 or more generations without cwd, (which we know because its pretty evident when they die of cwd symptoms etc) and we sell each other breeding stock to add to our herds...and our herds are in no danger of direct contact with prions from infected animals, such as wild infected deer or having you herd where there had previously been infected deer housed.. We can say with confidence our herds are cwd free, and there is zero chance the urine would be carrying the prions.

Im sure many operations arent operating under such procedures. I think some strict regulation should be put in place. Documentation of breeding should be thourough, and permits for the sale of urine should be based on strict conditions. Not given to just anyone and everyone who wants to raise some deer and extract the pizz to sell.

 
You are correct that those are all good safeguards. It is also good when you and others use urine from local and certified deer herds if you insist on using urine based lures. But, just knowing the past of the herd might not be enough in some cases to assure the herd doesn’t get infected with CWD.
 
CWD can also be transmitted to cervids from the bone meal that some places have in the past and perhaps still do use when feeding their deer. So it is entirely possible for a place to have a perfectly healthy herd and end up with CWD even though they have had no contact with any deer besides the ones they have spent their entire lives with. Hopefully the problems with the feed have been satisfactorily addressed and that all cervid operations take the required precautions, but I wouldn’t bet on all of them staying within legal or safe standards when money is at stake.
 
Since the CWD prions are a protein, instead of a bacteria or virus and can’t be killed, if even a tiny piece of bone meal from an infected animal finds its way into the food supply CWD becomes a possibility.
 
There simply is no way to say any deer herd is completely safe from CWD in today’s world. I feel it is only a matter of time before we have a positive case in Pennsylvania.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn

ORIGINAL: S-10

If CWD comes from large groups of animals, feed for those animals, etc, then why would you consider outlawing the deer scents from those places and not outlaw the actual places and causes, Ex.- deer farms, deer perserves, high fenced hunting operations, and the like. It seems like the proposal is to treat a sympton of the problam rather than the root of the problem.

 
The people who raise cervids, be it deer or elk, are generally doing it as a means of agricultural income. Some do it for meat farming, others for genetic structuring and yet others for the urine and some do all of those with there deer herds.
 
The Game Commission can’t prohibit them from raising deer in fact the Department of Agriculture, not the Game Commission, is in charge of the regulations that control most functions of the deer propagation business. It would be pretty near impossible to stop deer farming or for that matter the collection and commercialization of deer urine. About the only thing the Game Commission could regulate, under current laws, would be the use of lures for hunting.
 
It isn’t even just a matter of making sure the Pennsylvania propagators have disease free deer. Most hunters go down to the local sporting good store or Wal-mart, buy a bottle of lure and take it out and use it not knowing where the lure actually came from. That lure could have come from a deer herd in the heart of a CWD infected area for all anyone knows.
 
If hunters want to use urine based lures they should at the very least make sure it comes from a local deer herd where CWD has not yet been found. But, most hunters don’t keep up on such things so about the only way to control it would be to do it through regulations that limit or prohibit the use or urine based lures.
 
R.S. Bodenhorn