Dr. Trout
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food plot critter ==
While checking a clear creek food plot this evening I encounter this little fella.... I then went for a two mile ride on Bond Road which is about a mile away directly south from my home if I could fly... and goes thru SGL#54... for the first time I ever remember on a trip I saw deer, I saw no antlerless deer but I did see 6 different bucks .. a 4 point and a spike , 2 spikes, a six point and an 8 pointer... saw them in 4 different places.. none had very big racks... the 8 was the niciest.. no good pics they took off as soon as I stopped the truck.. did get a picture of these though
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DanesDad
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/14 01:33:49
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Yeah, theres porkys all over up your way. I cannot recall the last time I went to my camp in Forest and didn't see a dead one along the road.
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270wbmag
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/14 10:59:36
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vet charged me $390. freaking bucks to pull a handfull of quills out of my lab in may..what a ripp off..been ****ed at him since..outrageus for 20 minutes of work...Herring in Clearfield..beware of him...
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wayne c
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/14 11:11:51
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MuskyMastr
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/14 11:15:25
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270 we take our own out. Cut in half then yank with pliers, apply antibiotic ointment, very few dogs get them twice.
Better too far back, than too far forward.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/14 11:38:49
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Getting that photo of the porkie was funny...
You had to be there ==
I was only about 4 feet away but everytime I squatted down to get the pic he turned and stuck up his little spiny tail.... as I moved he moved .. It was really fun trying to get ahead of him as he turned to get the pic.. finally I got the one above and as he turned I decided to let him "wobble" back into the woods...
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S-10
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/14 18:55:08
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Six bucks and three were spikes. I see HR/AR is working in your area Doc. 
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Dr. Trout
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/14 19:58:37
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Just by chance did you happen to read in that post this is the same area I hunt near my home.. and for 8 years I have been saying this area has NEVER been known for big bucks... or did you just skip over that part so you had something to to post ???
Anyone who has read my posts or knows the area would not be surprised I did not see big bucks in that area..
I believe it's partly bad genes for decades and lack of good food sources once the farmers crops are taken in until the spring.. no Oak Trees at all for example...
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bingsbaits
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/14 20:26:03
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If there are Does there are Buck..Ratio is about 1-3... You just have to know how to HUNT for them.... 
post edited by bingsbaits - 2010/09/14 20:27:00
"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
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S-10
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/14 20:34:42
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Doc, that"s what HR/AR was supposed to correct,remember, thats what you have been telling us right along.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/14 22:58:18
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If there are Does there are Buck..Ratio is about 1-3...
You just have to know how to HUNT for them.... I never said they were not there/here, you guys just keep making things up... after all I saw 6 ... but only two were AR legal... and bing is right you have to know how to hunt them and where they are to be successful, I know where they are and how to get there ... I just do not venture into the areas they are in.... much easier to shoot a doe several hundred yards away from the front door to meet our venison requirements each year... and if by chance a legal buck come along he's down.. it's that simple for me... Doc, that"s what HR/AR was supposed to correct,remember, that's what you have been telling us right along HR was to reduce the number of deer .. that has been done in most of the state and even here there are still too many does (IMHO) but less than 10 years ago, so HR is working as planned... local habitat is starting to improve which was also part of the reasoning for HR... AR... allow bucks to get another year older.. that too is working here... more bucks living to be 2.5.. more bucks .. well I saw 6 at one time within 2 miles of each other along a road....and that's a first so that too must be working.. There are 5 bucks (none of the 6 I saw) ...in a group of 13 deer in one adjoining field each night.. One is only a 4 point but has about a 25 inch spread .... must be those poor genes and lack of food again. One is a spike that has tines about 22 inches long... my guess is he is at least 2.5 and the 4 point with the giant spread .. the neighbor and I figures he is 3 or 4... The other three are trophy bucks in most hunter's books.. one being a giant 10 point...The deer situation around here is good except it has never been known for big bucks....this year will be a good harvest year if the weather co-operates... we have some junior hunters and there are at least two legal ones running around back there and not going to the posted property like the ones in the field at night... so YES in my opinion HR/AR is working just fine here.... and hopefully will get better as the habitat grows and maybe some mature timber cutting on the SGL happens..
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270wbmag
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/15 05:38:01
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musky, i usually pull them myself, but he got a baby porky and had very small quills inside his mouth, and he would not let me yank them..have no idea why this vet charged me so much, been going to him for years and many of my dogs over the years have had quills pulled out and not at that price..must be getting ready for retirement..
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270wbmag
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/15 05:44:39
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whoa....25 inch wide 4pt..like to see a picture of that one..and a 22 in. spike..like to see that pic also...trail cam...would be nice....S 10..you stirring it up again..he's back..and the pro pgc is hitting the board again..yuk...
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DarDys
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/15 07:11:09
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ORIGINAL: Dr. Trout
If there are Does there are Buck..Ratio is about 1-3...
You just have to know how to HUNT for them....
I never said they were not there/here, you guys just keep making things up...
after all I saw 6 ... but only two were AR legal...
and bing is right you have to know how to hunt them and where they are to be successful,
I know where they are and how to get there ... I just do not venture into the areas they are in.... much easier to shoot a doe several hundred yards away from the front door to meet our venison requirements each year... and if by chance a legal buck come along he's down.. it's that simple for me...
Doc, that"s what HR/AR was supposed to correct,remember, that's what you have been telling us right along
HR was to reduce the number of deer .. that has been done in most of the state and even here there are still too many does (IMHO) but less than 10 years ago, so HR is working as planned... local habitat is starting to improve which was also part of the reasoning for HR...
AR... allow bucks to get another year older.. that too is working here... more bucks living to be 2.5..
more bucks .. well I saw 6 at one time within 2 miles of each other along a road....and that's a first so that too must be working..
There are 5 bucks (none of the 6 I saw) ...in a group of 13 deer in one adjoining field each night.. One is only a 4 point but has about a 25 inch spread .... must be those poor genes and lack of food again. One is a spike that has tines about 22 inches long... my guess is he is at least 2.5 and the 4 point with the giant spread .. the neighbor and I figures he is 3 or 4...
The other three are trophy bucks in most hunter's books.. one being a giant 10 point...The deer situation around here is good except it has never been known for big bucks....this year will be a good harvest year if the weather co-operates... we have some junior hunters and there are at least two legal ones running around back there and not going to the posted property like the ones in the field at night... so YES in my opinion HR/AR is working just fine here.... and hopefully will get better as the habitat grows and maybe some mature timber cutting on the SGL happens..
You do realize that as AR continues in your area, some of those "trophy" bucks will be killed thereby reducing their numbers in relation to the "ones that never will be legal no matter how old they get" and at some point a high percentage of "non-legal" bucks will be your breeding stock. And please don't put up the arguement that the "trophy" bucks will get to breed over the others because they will win fights with them. While those fihts are going on, with superior numbers, the doe will get bred by a by-stander non-legal. Its called the folly of rewarding A, while hoping for B.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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S-10
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/15 08:52:17
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Yeah 270, I'd like to see them myself. It would prove the folly of AR leaving non legal bucks to breed more non legal bucks.  Doc always talks about the big bucks he see's but posts photos of nothing but scrubs while talking about how great AR/HR is. Last year he had a photo of 3 or 4 bucks together on his site. All were scrubs. And this is the 9th year of Doc's MORE and BETTER BUCKS. 
post edited by S-10 - 2010/09/15 08:57:30
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Dr. Trout
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/15 08:55:18
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You do realize that as AR continues in your area, some of those "trophy" bucks will be killed thereby reducing their numbers in relation to the "ones that never will be legal no matter how old they get" and at some point a high percentage of "non-legal" bucks will be your breeding stock. That's exactly what I think has happen here since day one, the bigger better bucks go to the areas that are posted and have less pressure and mate with the does there... occasionally running a few in this area... If the PGC would cut these huge mature cherry trees and open-up the canopy it may help get some better food growing in the late fall.. winter.. and early spring... age and food are still the biggest part of antler development in my opinion.. but genes can also play a big part, especially if they are poor ones.. I also wish we had some oak trees around but they were all taken by an old time saw mill a mile away back when this whole area was clear cut by that mill... big bucks and this area have never gone hand in hand.. thus my lack of concern about shooting bucks I guess... And please don't put up the argument that the "trophy" bucks will get to breed over the others because they will win fights with them. While those fights are going on, with superior numbers, the doe will get bred by a by-stander non-legal. That's one argument no one has every heard me make.. I did not buy that one when I heard Dr. Alt say it... in this area there will never be any serious "fights"... too many does.... I wish they would allow seniors to harvest the non-ARs too, at least in some areas like this one that have an abundance of non-AR bucks... plus allowing seniors non-AR bucks some may stay hunting longer ... If they want youth to get involved by allowing Non-AR why not retain the old timers by allowing the same thing ?????? I'm still holding out hope for a couple good bucks from this area this year, there have to be a few in the hollow... last year we only got one 8 point from that hollow....
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DarDys
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/15 09:05:23
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ORIGINAL: 270wbmag
musky, i usually pull them myself, but he got a baby porky and had very small quills inside his mouth, and he would not let me yank them..have no idea why this vet charged me so much, been going to him for years and many of my dogs over the years have had quills pulled out and not at that price..must be getting ready for retirement..
On larger dogs, most of the cost would be for anestheisia, which is dosed by the weight of the dog. I would think that almost half of the cost would be anesthic and the balance the actual work plus antibotics to treat possible infection. I lost my first pointer to a porky. I was grouse hunting after Chirstmas one year and it was unusually warm -- enough to still have the porkies out. The pointer was hunting along and just dove under a downed tree top. In the ensuing battle he managed to kill the porky, but after I tore the treetop apart I found that he had quills through his eyes and down his throat that were coming completely from the inside to the outside. We were about 4 miles from the vehicle and more than 30 from a vets office on a Saturday. Knowing that he would be in horrible pain until I got him to the vet, and if I could find one, the best results would be that he would be totally blind and the worst that he would be put down anyway, I had to dispatch him right there in the woods. I have killed many things in my life, but that was one of the hardest things I ever had to do. I visit the spot in the woods where he is buried every year.
The poster formally known as Duncsdad Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/15 09:10:10
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The trouble with pictures is easy.. my camera is not top of the line... once dawn/dusk sets in the photos get blurry and not very good, I some times still post them though... plus I get most of my pics from along the road... minus the does and fawns here at home... around here you get about 15 seconds to stop, get camera, get a pic and then the deer are gone.... thus no pics of the 6 bucks from the other evening... spotting the field at dark does not allow for pictures either.. trail camera.. I have one and I do not put it up anywhere but on my property... stealing trail cameras and tree stands left in the woods is big business around here because of all the public land... so if folks want to believe that's fine.. if other do not that's fine.. I know what the truth is and so do many that are from this area... Here's two bucks not from here but near-by... I don't consider them "scrubs" especially for this area.. so there are some nice bucks just like I say.. but I do not get many chances at good pictures of them..and most of the time they are standing on posted grounds..  
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/09/15 09:20:16
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Dr. Trout
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/15 09:26:53
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As for if AR is or is not working state wide... just look at the trail camera photos on this site... those are some nice bucks for the most part... even 270 who has always complained is finding nice bucks this year and was bragging about them
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/09/15 09:27:19
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S-10
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/15 09:34:53
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Have you ever stopped to think about how many times over the years you have beat me up when I said in many areas we do not have the genetics to ever produce quality deer? And now here you are complaining about the poor genes on the deer in your area. Remember (The doe provides half the genetics)
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MuskyMastr
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/15 21:11:32
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Doc, there has been no significant increase in the size of the deer on our cameras since AR, only increase is in the number of cameras and thier quality.
DarDys, that's a heartbreaker, there is nothing worse in the world than having to put down a good dog and friend.
Better too far back, than too far forward.
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270wbmag
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/16 07:23:53
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doc, me and my buddies have 9 camera's out at one time all over state land since july and none have been stolen, i have never seen another person even scouting for deer up here, no one, even on saturdays,no vehicles on road.., you have to put them more than 2 ft from a walking trail, field, food plot,..mark them with a gps and get your butt in the woods, if it wasn't for our trail cam's...i have only seen a couple good bucks watching food plots, fields, am and pm...they are definetly nocturnal....never did i complain this year about no bucks, last year the deer moved out of some area's and now they are back because of feed last winter..year before..no feed in big woods...last year ton's of acorns, and this year the same...this is a great hobby and keeps you in shape..i walk miles every week just putting and taking cameras out..bought a viewer from sportsmans guide for 35 bucks, 7 in screen, sd card ..little slow..but great for seeing what you have on camera..Saw an animal the other day, which still has my buddie and i confused, we did not get a great look at it, but first thought was a bobcat, but had long bushy tail, over 50 lbs, and very wild, did not stick around when i went after it with a camcorder..brown in color..would have said bobcat, but tail not right, mountain lion face and body, but tail no good..no face like coyote or fox..don't know what it was..still wondering...any help out there..seen my first 3 coyotes this week..not hearing pack's like i did last few years, in elk country..no coyotes at all yipping or howling at evenings or ams..maybe thats good news..elk have been quiet, no bugling in the wild area's that i have heard this week..spend 3 days out there am/pm..nothing..If you guys have a chance go to elk center in bennezete..its really nice..go to movie..very good..3 bucks to get in movie..state of the art..vet charged me 310.oo dollars for removal of quills, other costs were in and out of anestetic..
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Dr. Trout
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RE: food plot critter ==
2010/09/16 10:39:53
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I'll second the recommendation about the new elk center..
several folks stopped in the store that had visted it and said it was GREAT !!!
May take a trip up myself next month..
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