dpms
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 09:57:41
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Dr. Trout
REALLY ????They can do that now ...... A law prevents it, Doc. Squirrel season runs for months. A hunter cannot walk out of his door and hunt squirrels on Sundays within our established season. Times have changed, the work week is no longer mon- fri. Here's a question I can not get an answer too .. some folks and groups are "pushing" for the PGC to make the decision about Sunday hunting... and using that as the main reason for allowing Sunday hunting .. which as I keep saying --- we are already allowed to do in some cases... who pushed to have crows, coyotes ,etc added to Sunday hunting .... does ANYONE not believe it was the PGC .... and does ANYONE not believe they could add some other animal/bird to the list IF they really wanted to ???????? It has been answered many times but I suspect you have turned your cheek to the answers. Why it is best for a game agency to have to have legislation passed by politicians when they want to change certain regulations? Do you feel it would have been better to get the political ok for Saturday bear opener? All day gobbler hunting? Early muzzleloader season? Fisher season? Expanding the bobcat trapping zones? If one believes that game agencies are best equipped to make those determinations, which I believe you do, why in gods name would you desire everything be run through political channels. Sunday Hunting === just too silly for me Is Monday or Wednesday hunting too silly you as well? That just sounds SOooooooooooo silly to me .. how about this one then ...there are exceptions to the Sunday Hunting law ...... so actually you are allowed to hunt on Sunday
Spin as you wish. A current law makes Sunday hunting illegal. It is on the books as such. Legislation has made exceptions to the standing law which outlaws SH in PA.
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dpms
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 10:01:41
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Dr. Trout adding deer hunters to the list of farmers, rural property owners, and others not wanting any change to the Sunday hunting policy would be just CRAZY .....
Then don't add deer. The current BOC would not add deer based on their past opinions during the SH debates and the current direction they are going with deer management. They could certainly add small game and bear as examples with little hoopla or impact which would allow those hunters some more time to enjoy their sport.
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S-10
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 11:44:23
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Smoke and mirrors DPMS, It's all about DEER and we all know it. Any other claims is just to get the foot in the door. Doc is correct on allocations also. Why would you allow Sunday hunting and then cut the limits or days of the week to hunt to compensate for reduced game populations.
As far as the work week no longer being Mon-Fri what planet did you come from. The work week has never been 40 hours for most of us. I used to keep good records when in the labor force and AVERAGED 47 hours a week for 36 years not counting the full weeks I took as vacation. Instead of whining about Sunday I worked my vacation and holidays so I got to hunt the days I could. It's simply a matter of priorities. You have to choose between the beach on a sunny day or the tree stand on a snowy one.
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wayne c
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 11:49:58
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Then don't add deer. Easy for you to say and quite convenient. Unfortunately that would be idiocy if one is against deer management direction and opposes sunday hunting for that reason. Once we support sunday hunting expansion in general, and it passes, its completely out of our hands. We have a better chance of preventing near future sunday hunting of deer by opposing sunday hunting expansion period than trying to impose our will when we have little say on the matter and pgc has "the say". They also have the say over everything else deer management. No reason to expect this to be any different in how we are "listened to". We have over a decade to look back upon as very clear evidence of how much our input has meant.  I have also heard the current board say none of the such about deer. Their stance is largely unknown. Not that it would matter to me anyway. No reason to put it into someone elses hands when the current hands are doing just fine, thanks.
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wayne c
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 11:58:35
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If our bear season was under attack in Pennsylvania like it is in other states, most hunters would welcome national orgs. And if pigs had wings theyd fly. There is no existing season under attack in Pa. When anti gun legislation comes from Harrisburg, most hunters and gun owners welcome outside help, even though it is a Pennsylvania issue. We saw it take center stage recently. Hunters and gun owners standing hand in hand with the national orgs. You are talking about infringing on our RIGHTS. FEDERAL rights protected by the 2nd. The Feds have an obvious interest for obvious reasons. Killing a DEER on sunday is not a "right" guaranteed by any constitution amendment that Im aware of. If you feel the national orgs should stay out of any Pennsylvania issue regarding hunting and/or gun rights, No. Youre simply lumping everything together in a self serving manner because your argument on the particular topic is lacking. You are intentionally clouding the issue, because like hush..... You have no case. It boils down to, you want sunday hunting. Many others do. Many others don't. What we have with the SH issue is now some hunters saying the national orgs should stay out, yet, these same folks welcome them or would welcome on other issues them when they think no one is watching or no one cares. Or maybe, the hypocrisy has never been realized by them or pointed out to them. I think lack of comprehension and intent to deceive are much bigger issues in this discussion than hypocracy. Very clear. why in gods name would you desire everything be run through political channels. Because like it or not, that's our reality. Others take advantage of those "channels" regularly. Hunters would be idiots not to do the same whenever possible.
post edited by wayne c - 2014/06/26 12:03:27
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dpms
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:01:49
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S-10
Smoke and mirrors DPMS, It's all about DEER and we all know it. Any other claims is just to get the foot in the door Maybe it is for some. It has never been for me from the beginning though I can empathize with those that wish to hunt our favorite game animal on a day of the week that works best for them. . Doc is correct on allocations also. Why would you allow Sunday hunting and then cut the limits or days of the week to hunt to compensate for reduced game populations. Allocations ebb and flow with sometimes little rhyme or reason these days. That probably will not change. Some years there will be more and some less with SH factoring into them much less than other points. As far as the work week no longer being Mon-Fri what planet did you come from. The work week has never been 40 hours for most of us. I used to keep good records when in the labor force and AVERAGED 47 hours a week for 36 years not counting the full weeks I took as vacation. Instead of whining about Sunday I worked my vacation and holidays so I got to hunt the days I could. It's simply a matter of priorities. You have to choose between the beach on a sunny day or the tree stand on a snowy one.
Same planet as you come from I think. The fact is things have changed with work, families, daily life struggles etc... It is easy to preach based on personal experience but until we walk in others shoes, it carries little weight.
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dpms
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:19:52
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wayne c
Once we support sunday hunting expansion in general, and it passes, its completely out of our hands. We have a better chance of preventing near future sunday hunting of deer by opposing sunday hunting expansion period than trying to impose our will when we have little say on the matter and pgc has "the say". They also have the say over everything else deer management. No reason to expect this to be any different in how we are "listened to". We have over a decade to look back upon as very clear evidence of how much our input has meant. I have also heard the current board say none of the such about deer.
Lol. "out of our hands". Really? Do politicians jump on and agree with everything their constituents want? We lobby them and we lobby the PGC. Neither are obligated to implement any of our wants and desires. You have just as much say now as you would with more political control of hunting. What is congress's approval rating these days? 15%. Yep, they listen, lol. Wanting more political control of game management most likely removes you from the process more than ever.
post edited by dpms - 2014/06/26 12:27:13
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dpms
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:23:46
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wayne c
] I think lack of comprehension and intent to deceive are much bigger issues in this discussion than hypocracy.
I think when hypocrisy is pointed out some scramble to cover it up any way possible while ignoring the points that were raised.
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wayne c
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:24:39
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Lol. "out of our hands". Really? Yep. Just like allocations. Crossbows. Season lengths. Deer herd size. PLant and tree/biodiversity based deer management. Not one of those things as they are now, had a majority of sportsmen supporting them. Not one. Each had very vocal opposition. Yet they were pushed through anyway, and are still in place today. Do politicians jump on and agree with everything their constituents want? IF they don't give real considerations to constituents within their districts, they don't stay legislators very long. That simple. Pgc doesn't listen to us, and they get awards from dcnr & Audubon.
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wayne c
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:26:20
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dpms
wayne c
] I think lack of comprehension and intent to deceive are much bigger issues in this discussion than hypocracy.
I think when hypocrisy is pointed out some scramble to cover it up any way possible
You mean like trying to lump gun rights issues in directly with your sunday hunting crusade to "cover" your debating ineptitude? lmao.
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dpms
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:29:42
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wayne c
] IF they don't give real considerations to constituents within their districts, they don't stay legislators very long. That simple.
Lowest approval rating ever and most are not even sportsmen. Yep, they are looking out for you. Good luck!
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dpms
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:34:08
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wayne c
You mean like trying to lump gun rights issues in directly with your sunday hunting crusade to "cover" your debating ineptitude? lmao.
Did you even grasp the context? If you want to discuss issues, you have to understand the context of the discussion instead of pounding on keyboards when inconsistencies begin to surface. The context was national sporting and/or gun orgs involvement in Pennsylvania issues. You are on record as welcoming them on some occasions and telling them it is not their place on others depending on your personal positions. Hypocrite.
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dpms
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:36:34
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For the record, I think the PGC approval record among sportsmen is higher than our general assemblies among voters, lol. Explain that one, Dan!
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wayne c
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:43:03
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Is that to me? Come come now Eugene. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I see the "dan" comes out every time you get emotional and are losing a debate. lmao. Got it from your galpal Kathy no doubt, she has called me (and others) that on other sites also. You two are practically joined at the hip. As for your statement, it simply isn't true. Although if you poll people immediately after controversial topics have been addressed Im sure responses vary greatly. There is no entity in Pa with lower approval day in and day out than pgc. None. Of course if we ask select audiences, such as you and your pfsc allies, we may very well get much different result than reality. lmao. 
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wayne c
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:44:07
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Lowest approval rating ever and most are not even sportsmen. Hmmm. Sounds a lot like many past and present at pgc! Only we don't vote on them do we? Legislators have oversight, and a finger in pretty much everything pgc does. We can use that to work for us or it can work against us. Currently it isn't working for you and sunday hunting. Sorry about your luck, but it is what it is. The only other option, which some of you regularly suggest, is when you don't want the opposition taking advantage of the legislative route....even though you do regular basis...The rest of us are supposed to stick our heads in the sand and go into ridiculous denial and say legislators aren't to be involved at all. I'll pass on that option. But maybe you should practice what you preach. Certain legislators are about tired of hearing from you on multiple issues....Or so im told. 
post edited by wayne c - 2014/06/26 12:50:43
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wayne c
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:45:27
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You mean like trying to lump gun rights issues in directly with your sunday hunting crusade to "cover" your debating ineptitude? lmao. ....I felt you needed that repeated. The only response worthy of your current denial mode.
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dpms
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:46:35
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Kathy my gal pal, lol. The last time I heard from her on a message board she told me to take a hike as i had the gall to disagree with her about CWD.
And yes, the PGC approval rating among hunters is much higher than our general assemblies is among residents. So, you can lay your cards on whichever table you choose to.
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dpms
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:49:16
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wayne c
You mean like trying to lump gun rights issues in directly with your sunday hunting crusade to "cover" your debating ineptitude? lmao. ....I felt you needed that repeated. The only response worthy of your current denial mode.
I caught it the first time and got it. Did you go back and attempt to understand the context of the why it was brought up in the discussion? The clear explanation is there.
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dpms
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:51:55
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wayne c
Lowest approval rating ever and most are not even sportsmen. Hmmm. Sounds a lot like many past and present at pgc! Only we don't vote on them do we?
Actually you do now. I am sure you are aware of the term limits bill which requires reconfirmation by our elected officials? Since you feel our elected officials are who listens to you best, they should easily reconfirm or not commissioners based on your input moving forward.
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wayne c
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:52:22
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dpms
Kathy my gal pal, lol. The last time I heard from her on a message board she told me to take a hike as i had the gall to disagree with her about CWD.
And yes, the PGC approval rating among hunters is much higher than our general assemblies is among residents. So, you can lay your cards on whichever table you choose to.
Already addressed. As for your statement, it simply isn't true. Although if you poll people immediately after controversial topics have been addressed Im sure responses vary greatly.
There is no entity in Pa with lower approval day in and day out than pgc. None. Of course if we ask select audiences, such as you and your pfsc allies, we may very well get much different result than reality. lmao.
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wayne c
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:54:09
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dpms
wayne c
You mean like trying to lump gun rights issues in directly with your sunday hunting crusade to "cover" your debating ineptitude? lmao. ....I felt you needed that repeated. The only response worthy of your current denial mode.
I caught it the first time and got it. Did you go back and attempt to understand the context of the why it was brought up in the discussion? The clear explanation is there.
Anyone else choosing to is free to go back. I pretty much nailed it the first time. No need to revisit.
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dpms
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:55:28
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Not a PFSC member, not affiliated with hush nor did I contribute to them. Hmm, grasping again are we to place labels on folks.
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dpms
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:57:25
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I got to get back to work. You know, to pay my taxes to those politicians that are looking out for you and I.
C ya. It was fun for awhile.
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wayne c
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 12:57:55
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Actually you do now. I am sure you are aware of the term limits bill which requires reconfirmation by our elected officials? 1. Nope. That's called a political appointment. Not an elected official. 2. This is new and has not effected even one sitting commissioner as of yet. WIll the system be effective? Who knows. Im not going to say it definitely will or definitely wont when I simply don't know. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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wayne c
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 13:03:54
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dpms
Not a PFSC member, not affiliated with hush nor did I contribute to them. Hmm, grasping again are we to place labels on folks.
Unfortunately for you, Ive been around on boards every bit as long as you have and have been "politically active" in regards to hunting just as long as you and the others and know the score. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck last night. Of course Im aware that was more an attempt to distance yourself from those that have lost much credibility in the eyes of many legislators, some boc and others. I don't blame you one bit for that. lol. Heck, the pfsc message board even had to CHANGE ITS NAME because pfsc didn't approve of the embarrassing and often slanderous posts that were being made there by a few of its overly vocal members! lmao! Its ashame though, that those evil legislators wont give you what you want in this instance. So want pgc to be able to give it to you. I think there are some good guys on the board. Although I don't know if its a majority or not that really represents our best interests. Certainly don't see it in way of any major changes in deer management direction. Maybe that will change in the near future. Maybe not. And I certainly don't know if it will be the case in the future for sure. Wanting legislators to give pgc say over this is Kinda like asking mommy for a rubber ball, when she says no, shes evil so you go ask daddy. But that still wont stop you from asking mommy for something else again next time. lol. Hmmm. I just had a flashback...Where did I hear the child/ball thing before? Legislators....naaa, that wasn't it... 
post edited by wayne c - 2014/06/26 13:10:50
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Dr. Trout
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 13:14:27
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Gene ... where are you get your 15% approval rate for our state congress .... maybe for the governor... LOL.. but I certainly do not think that is correct for the congress as a whole....
Do politicians jump on and agree with everything their constituents want?
Only those wanting to keep their jobs .... LOL.. especially on a state basis... and hunters do play a SMALL part in that .... think Dan Surra !!!!!!! The rural politicians are CERTAINLY listening to those that keep them in office on the Sunday thing.... around here a yes vote would be political suicide .... maybe the big city guys/gals want it but the more rural folks say --- hell NO !!!! as for the squirrel situation .. when they become a problem the PGC can easily ask for approval to add squirrel to the Sunday hunting list.... let's think about this.. let's give the PGC all the power.. they can do what ever when ever they want... with no approval from any politicians at all.. now venture back to 2000 .. too many deer ... the "new" more power PGC feels... so they just pass their own law .. deer season now open everyday of the year... but Easter.. don't want to upset the Christians !! and the daily limits is 6 .. 4 females and 2 males... who's to stop them .... the 10% of the state's population that are hunters ...REALLY ... maybe the car insurance business, or those rich property owners losing their shrubs ???  all power PGC .. that is ridiculous .. If we have too many squirrels prove it to the politicians and ask for an addition to the Sunday list .... I think even folks opposed to more Sunday hunting understand why crows, coyotes are on the list .. they are a pain to many ... and would not object when the squirrel population becomes a problem to them and needs to be hunted on Sunday..
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dpms
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 14:34:37
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Dr. Trout.. let's give the PGC all the power.. they can do what ever when ever they want... with no approval from any politicians at all.. now venture back to 2000 .. too many deer ... the "new" more power PGC feels... so they just pass their own law .. deer season now open everyday of the year... but Easter.. don't want to upset the Christians !! and the daily limits is 6 .. 4 females and 2 males... who's to stop them .... the 10% of the state's population that are hunters ...REALLY ... Not sure where you are coming up with the "all power" PGC with the legalization of SH. State agencies are tasked with doing their job. There is oversight by our general assembly and they can step in at any time and change the course. It is very typical for game agencies around this country to regulate hunting on a full time basis. That is not unique but it seems very foreign to you for some reason? .. If we have too many squirrels prove it to the politicians and ask for an addition to the Sunday list .... Sure they could. I asked before and you did not respond. Why is that the best option for a game agency to seek political approval to enact a regulatory change? Would you have preferred that the PGC sought legislation to start bear season on Saturday, Implement all day gobbler hunting, Introduce the early muzzleloader deer season and begin trapping fishers? If so, I can understand your position.
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S-10
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 14:44:52
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DPMS--you may want to do a bit of research on the history of the average workweek in the US before trying that one again. things have changed over the years all right. FOR THE BETTER ------Well-what is it-- vacation at the beach or vacation sitting in the tree? It's all a matter of priorities. 
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dpms
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 14:51:36
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S-10
---Well-what is it-- vacation at the beach or vacation sitting in the tree? It's all a matter of priorities.
Many would like to sit in that tree during the days they have off from work. No matter which day of the week that may be. Same with going to a bar, gambling, shopping, fishing, hiking or whatever else floats your boat. Hunting is as wholesome as it comes, yet, illegal on one day of the week in this state.
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Dr. Trout
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Re: Hush sunday hunting lawsuit
2014/06/26 14:51:44
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I thought all those changes were approved by the BOC before they became factual .... And I surely hope you do not think the BOC is not as good as any politician . . after all .. their appointment is as political as any election .... and half their decisions are based not only on hunters but the general public as well, just watch the access thing to SGL get pushed thru ..........  and no matter what you think I am sure if the PGC wanted squirrels added to Sunday hunting they could do it in a matter of a couple months... as being state here ...it's all about deer when it comes to Sunday hunting .. the regulatory stance is just a smoke screen and most hunters see it that way ...... the other much larger group opposing Sunday hunting law changes are not even hunters... they could probably care less about deer or who regulates changes to hunting rules..... It is very typical for game agencies around this country to regulate hunting on a full time basis and just look how things get changed by folks that are not hunters in those state ... bear hunting comes to mind right away and some of that BS out in Calif....... Sunday Hunting is dead for the fore-seeable future and that is okay with me !!!! I'm done with my rant !!!!
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2014/06/26 14:55:04
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