Post Gazette article

it is also the #4 most emailed article on the PG's website...

Bug, are me & you the only ones not fishin today ????    Dave

Mack,
 
I think you have posted one of the most insightful, intelligent, and right-on-the-money posts EVER on these forums - i could not agree with you more - seems the ones complaining the most are the ones who have the greatest opportunity - what a shame eh?
 
SI

MackJ, don't know you but I know many locals and out of towners (like myself) who would gladly share or give up a spot to a kid or even an adult and help them out. Blanket statements are off base and to put the debate to rest as it comes up every year, yes out of towners help the economy everyone knows that as do locals. It's about fishing and only fishing & having fun not arguing or fighting. Hope to see you sometime on the stream maybe we can learn something from each other and maybe help a kid fish. Sound good ?    Dave

If you cannot attack the substance of the argument, then lambast the arguer.  I'm not a troll, but I play one on TV.  I am just an observer of human behavior and I already can observe who are the courteous locals and who are the ones I was describing earlier.  Which hole should we look for you to be camping in at first light?

ORIGINAL: MackJ

If you cannot attack the substance of the argument, then lambast the arguer.  I'm not a troll, but I play one on TV.  I am just an observer of human behavior and I already can observe who are the courteous locals and who are the ones I was describing earlier.  Which hole should we look for you to be camping in at first light?

 
you won't see me in Erie till mid-Nov...
no one on the board has ever mentioned anything against kids...
if you "read the posts" you would see the opposite...
this thread was directed at a poorly written, misimformed article...
(i hope John Hayes reads this)
using phrases like "world-class" and "as good as Alaska and NZ"...leeds to the blind frenzy of ignorant/ uneducated people... (see the snagger thread)
the article was nice enough to mention trash...
but makes not mention of ethical fishing or stream manners... huge erie trib problems...
 
 

Perhaps the statement about the village idiot and his half-wit brother was a bit harsh.  I apologize for that.

As for people coming to fish the streams from outside of Erie county, that is not the issue.  The point I was trying to make is that with the rain, which in some people's minds = fish running up the stream, it must be time to jump in the car and "come up" to fish.  My comments were not meant to offend or discourage anyone from fishing, but it to give a realistic picture of what you will be encountering.

I live in Erie county, I fish the tribs several times per week, usually in the mornings before work and in the afternoons after work.  I don't usually fish the tribs on the weekends, especially to avoid the crowds.  I know most of the lower portions of Walnut like the back of my hand and have given pointers, flies, bait and tons of advice to people from all over.  I have encountered many wonderful people over the years and some have become friends.  I have also run into some people that have been obnoxious, rude, ignorant, drunk, high and down right crazy over the years as well.  Who knows where they came from, I don't care. I even saw a guy this fall sitting in a chair, in the edge of the creek smoking a joint.  Things that make you go, HMMMMM.

I will close with what I have personally have seen the last two mornings on the project waters at Walnut.  I arrived yesterday morning at around 6:45 or so to find a parking lot full of cars, not literally, just a turn of phrase to let you know there were way more than what I have experienced most Wednesday mornings.  There were already close to 10 guys on one hole I usually like to fish so I moved up stream and found a very good spot where there were less people, that is until we started catching fish and drawing people to the spot like flies to a meadow muffin.  I caught fish, several of the other guys I was fishing around and got to talking with caught fish.  We got into a rhythm and had very few problems and generally had a good morning.  There were a couple of guys using some rather unorthodox methods, who were getting skunked, but they were not annoying or causing any problems directly for me, but seemed to be bothering another fellow near me.

This morning, the water was back down, fishing conditions were different from yesterday and there needed to be a change in tactics.  I started fishing a different hole and hooked up right after I got there.  As the morning went on, there were people casting up the hole past 3 and 4 people while others were trying to get a drift right in front of them.  Yet this guy who was casting up the hole had fish right in front of him most of the morning.  He could have literally stepped on them if the stepped into the water.  There was a guy with a quarter oz of lead on his line slapping it into the water with each cast and then routinely hanging up on the bottom and snagging up with me and others.  BTW - the water was only about a foot deep and there was no significant flow... i.e. no need for that much weight.  There were a couple of guys who would not stop fishing when you had a fish on and yelled the fish was coming up the hole.  There were people climbing down a hillside when all they needed to do was walk a few more yards and come down a path.  I saw guys standing in the creek where the fish usually will hold, i.e. standing in the drift... If they had bothered to look before they jumped into the water, they could have stood on the bank and had plenty of fish right in front of them.  I watched a guy casting, if you can call it that, a fly to a rock.  Not once, but over and over.  I walked past a fellow with a rod and reel that was clearly designed for heavy saltwater fishing, hmmmm I wonder what he was up to?  There was the guy with an egg sack the size of a gum ball drifting in a riffle and wondering, I am sure to himself, why the fish were swimming away from his bait and I would hook a fish every now and then on a #12 woollly worm.

The bottomline, I had fun, caught fish, met a couple of neat people and enjoyed my day.  No complaints, but and this is a HUGE but, the conditions I discribed would have frustrated the heck out a lot of people who come up expecting to have a "good" drift and "lots" of fish to themselves.  My intentions of posting the original comments and to be a bit more specific here is to paint a realistic picture of what you are likely to experience when you come to Walnut creek to fish.  There will be lots of people.  Many will have no idea of what they are doing, some either due to a lack of knowledge or clearly to be offensive will do some dumb things, often repeatedly.  The chance you will get "Your special spot" will be limited and you will need to share the water with your fellow fisherman; the good, the bad and the ugly....

Come, fish and enjoy the tribs, but please educate yourself first as to the rules and regulations, be respectful of your fellow fisherman, keep only those fish you can use and realize your experience will only be as good as you decide it will be.

Great post bug!  I watched you and the others fish that hole form the road for about 15 minutes this morning.  You must have been the ringmaster, because there were a bunch of clowns around you. lol  

Next time stop by and say Hi.  As for being the ringmaster....  I don't know about that. 

I enjoyed reading Your post BugHawk well said.

                                                    John

Good posts! Bug and St. Croix

Isnt Erie just like most trout streams are during the first few weeks when every usually only fishes the weekends, then as the later the season the fewer the people.

I wouldnt know what New yorkers would say, just figured since some people in erie hates out of towners Im sure there is some new yorkers who hates out of towners as well.

When they say bug is smart.... LISTEN you dont get called a DR. by just producing hip hop music for a long time. When he gave me address for me to mail him flies I couldnt believe it that someone of his knowledge and kindness blesses us with his word and presents. Havent fished with him yet, but hope to soon. 

could of been worse.

Thinking about this whole issue a bit more, I keep coming back to one thing, is stress.  Even if we are looking forward to a day fishing, many of us are under some stress.  We may have to take a day off of work, rearrange our schedules, put off things we should be doing, drive for hours in the middle of the night, not get enough sleep, drink too much coffee, not eat properly, etc... and to top it all off, we are fighting the clock to get in as much fishing as we can within the limited time.  On top of this, some have a sense that the trip is not a success unless we were "pounding" the fish and if anything or anyone gets in your way, the stress levels go through the roof.  The stress to have a good time is what can ruin our time on the stream.
 
I go to the Outer Banks of NC once a year for a couple of weeks, primarily to fish and secondarily to eat seafood....  I used to try to spend every waking moment fishing, only taking time to sleep and eat.  Being a bit OCD I felt I had to be fishing as much as I could.  By the end of my trip I would be worn out and pretty cranky, especially if the fishing was not good.  I felt cheated if I was not slamming the fish.  I don't take that approach any more.  I fish when I feel like, take a nap, read a book, find a nice little out of the way place to have some fresh soft shell crabs, in other words, I enjoy myself and try not to obsess about fishing.
 
For me once I allowed myself to relax and enjoy myself, I started enjoying the fishing much more and realized there is more to life than fishing.  My advice for everyone coming up to fish is to really be honest with yourself about why you are fishing.  What do you want to get out of the experience and are you enjoying yourself?  I believe once you reflect a bit you may change your outlook and end up having a much better time when you come to Erie.