You claim that it is a flat out lie that the bucks are larger... Yet continually state we don't know how many deer we have or if AR's are high grading...

I don't recall ever claiming that it was a flat out lie that the bucks are larger. What I have been saying is there is no data that shows the 2.5+bucks are larger.

Harvest stats may not be interchangeable with herd stats, but it is a statistical impossibility to double the number of 8 points while reducing the herd by over 45% and it is impossible to double the number of 8 pts. without doubling the number of 2.5 + buck while reducing the herd.

If the bucks are larger why does 2000 still have OVER TWICE as many bucks entered in the PA record books as any year since? Also, taking all the bucks over 140 taken in the first 6 years the restrictions would have made an effect and comparing them to the 6 years prior to AR the averages are nearly identical.

ORIGINAL: DanesDad

"The original premise for AR was to shrink the standard deviation from the average date of conception. The theory was that the older bucks saved by AR would do the breeding and all the does would be bred closer together."

I think this was accomplished with HR, not AR.

 
The promises of bigger bucks through AR was needed to sell HR.  When it became difficult to kill an AR buck, the average hunter killed a doe. 

Please note that I did not specify which portions of that statement were flat out lies. Alt's claim that ARs would double the number of 8 pts. and that we would have more buck than ever before were flat out lies. Whether we have larger bucks than ever before has yet to be determined.

Simple math along with looking at the records should prove that the claims were incorrect if not flat out lies. Comparing 20% of the pre AR/HR bucks that made it to 2-1/2 with 50% of the last few years bucks show we have not saved twice the bucks to reach 2-1/2 so the double 8 points has to be bogus. Common sense and the records show that we don't have close to (more buck than ever before) and the PGC's own record book shows that we don't have larger bucks than before AR/HR. What we have is approx half the deer as before with little or no improvement in regeneration depending on the area surveyed, a breeding cycle the same as before AR/HR, and most CAC's recommending an increase in deer numbers. The so called small vocal minority is now the larger majority and the BOC starting to realize that maybe they went too far with HR and should loosen up on the deer kill just a bit before they lose most of the hunters. The few folks still supporting HR are screaming we will be overrun with deer and a former BOC member aligned with the Audubon can't bear being out of power and is bashing the new BOC. The guy who the PGC hired to sell this mess is out in Calif hobnobbing with the radical enviromentalists and making a living talking about what a wonderful job he did. Ain't life grand.