2024/08/20 01:04:54
DeadGator401
Won't happen MyWar. 
You're not gonna get what you're looking for.

The reality is, people are dug into their trenches. Hell, I'd imagine some of the things us on the "Left" say, help some on the right dig in deeper, and vice versa. 

Let's all just agree the Manchester Hole sucks. 
2024/08/20 01:45:56
crappiefisher
   
  Hated spills on the Allegheny in the 60's -- 70's. Some were accidents while others on purpose, (pay the fine if caught for companies) Would wipe out certain populations like Walleye, Shiners and so on on that side of the river. Once the Shiners were wiped out the LM would follow. One time I was down there and the shoreline was covered with all Walleyes, many 28"++ from the Hulton Bridge 3/4 the way up to the lock/dam.  Other times it would be Carp / Bass. The SM came on strong but the LM never rebounded anywhere close as it was. Guess it didn't kill the Crayfish.
 
  When I worked building/property management in the 80's for steel mills, industrial parks in Etna and 2 in Lawrenceville (same owner) we would put dye down some drains and then check to see if could locate any color seeping along Pine Creek shoreline in Etna and same on Lawrenceville side of the river.
 
 Was in charge of summer help one year and checked on the progress of cleanup down from our Mariana rental. Found a large crude oil tank with the drain wide open and closed it. Climbed down over the hill to the river and could see oil as far as the eye could see.  Only had a beeper then, cell phones weren't on the market like today. Called 911 from my brother's car lot / body shop on Butler St. What a mess.  We had evicted a tow / junkyard business a few days prior down the tracks a little. Pretty sure his juvenile kid opened the drain, broken glass / bottles across the road leading back along the tracks. I helped what I could with that cleanup.        
2024/08/20 08:41:10
MyWar
crappiefisher
HoEp thez heElpz...
 
 
https://www.npr.org/2022/12/30/1146355861/epa-water-protections-wetlands-rule
 


I don’t the think the Allegheny river would fall under this rule. This fight was about extending protections to very small streams and other bodies of water iirc.

The Allegheny should already have some degree of legal protection under EPA rules. But I don’t know how that actually plays out in this case yet.
2024/08/20 10:32:42
eyesandgillz
MyWar
Let’s talk about this.

https://www.facebook.com/...VBQqc/?mibextid=WC7FNe

I don’t know if that link will work, but I’m sure some of you know about this by now. And I’m pretty sure some of you fish this water. I do. I know this stretch of the Allegheny pretty well.

There is a crude oil leak just above fisherman’s cove on the Allegheny. I haven’t seen many details yet as to his bad it is, how difficult the clean up will be, or what the long term impact will be. But I think we all know this is very much not fukkin good.

So I have some questions for you.

Why are sportsmen not stronger advocates for conservation and environmental protection? Does this not hit close to home for you?

Do you think Donald Trump gives two shiits about the Allegheny river? Or any river? Do you think an actual avid outdoorsman like Tim walz does?

I honestly do not understand how issues like clean waterways and the protection and restoration of natural resources are not more important to people like us. I don’t understand why some of the sportsmen on this board side with the fossil fuel industry instead of the people who are trying to hold them accountable.

So make me understand. Convince me why I shouldn’t be outraged because the parties that are responsible for dumping oil into our river never be held accountable. Convince me that the real villain is not the fossil fuel industry. Convince me that more oil won’t just lead to more oil spills in waterways that we care about.

Sell me on the modern Republican solution to this problem. Pretend I’m an independent undecided voter and convince me.



Don't have time to fact check this but, you asked for something:
 
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/210114-Final-Accomplishments-Document.pdf
 
2024/08/20 12:11:43
Mitchell
crappiefisher
HoEp thez heElpz...
 

 
WTF!!!! Why do we have to do text speak here on a written forum? I'll admit it, I'm almost 74 and a bit cyber-stupid, but apparently nobody I know speaks like this so you use it 'cause everybody you know does??
 
2024/08/20 12:14:45
Porktown
It’s a Young Guru reference.

Hope this helpa!
2024/08/20 12:35:59
Mitchell
eyesandgillz
 
Don't have time to fact check this but, you asked for something:
 
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/210114-Final-Accomplishments-Document.pdf



Won't work, eyes. Even though it's right there in black and white, they're not gonna believe it. It was under the Trump Administration so it must be a lie.
 
Maybe they don't even know that Don Jr. and Eric Trump are both avid sportsmen and big supporters of conservation. They even want environmental restrictions on an oil boom in ANWAR should daddy get re-elected and re-opens up ANWAR that Biden put off limits.
 
For the past 25 years the 'Crats have been sayin' all the Republicans want is dirty air, dirty water, pump oil from every corner, private healthcare only and throw grandma off the cliff. It really gets old but they own (are) the media), so all we ever get is their version and I doubt it'll ever change. If it does, it'll be for the worst.
 
2024/08/20 13:01:01
Porktown
MyWar

Why are sportsmen not stronger advocates for conservation and environmental protection? Does this not hit close to home for you?


Dems have many more environmental protection policies, but also have a ton of overreach policies and many that are clear double standards. Like most issues, there is a MUCH better approach that neither party seems to focus on.
 
I follow a few saltwater fishing reports forums like this one.  In my dream world, I am retired and fishing the ocean every day in my $500k offshore boat and even slum it up surf fishing like my boring real life does for vacation...  If my dream world was my real world, I would look the other way of Trump being a complete clown and vote Republican at every level.  The hot topics that reach those forums are almost all Dem overreach, pandering to the far left wacko environazis.  Just like this forum, I look at the issues, try to do a reasonable amount of research and form my opinion of where the truth lies.  It is almost always the far left environazis that hide under the "environmental protection" BS.  Beach closures so migrating birds don't get upset and chirp at you...  Even to people on foot, staying clearly away from their nests.  Having ridiculously speed restrictions in the open ocean due to migrating wales (who have something like .0001% incident report of anything smaller than a cargo ship hitting them).  Flounder and other fish harvest restrictions for recreational fishermen, but completely fine for commercial fishermen.  Not allowing bridges or roads due to some sort of endangered insect or bird migration found in the area.  But look the other way when it comes to wind farms, solar farms or other clean energy projects.  I am just fine with those projects and I don't buy into the BS that they are killing wales or use more energy than they produce wacko right wing crap.  But the idea that these environazis will get in the way of any project and ends up making it cost 2-3 times the initial budget, but then have no issues with clean energy or other self serving projects, is a clear double standard.  And are 99.9999999% Democrat supported.  So, yes, I can see why many sportsmen wouldn't approve of the Democratic party.
 
I know many Republicans that recycle, reuse, reduce and wouldn't think to dump chemicals (legally or not), support C&R and only keep what they plan to consume.  Many that look for more efficient motors or other (often more to due with lower cost of ownership). Many that do admit that climate change is partially to do with humans and we probably should do something about it.  But the Dem party is lying about being the answer.  Sure, some of their policies are good, but some are complete attack on sportsmen.  Their constant support of environazis that have seemed to wage war on sportsmen for years isn't going to have many blindly switch to the Dem party for pretty good reason.
2024/08/20 13:07:06
Porktown
Mitchell
pump oil from every corner

GOP supporters with "drill baby drill" chants have nothing to do with this thought?  It is the media making it up?  
 
Are Dems for or against throwing grandma from the cliff?  Is grandma still fully functioning or dementia like Joe/Trump and is reduced to just blabbering nonsense?
2024/08/20 13:10:37
MyWar
I’m pretty sure trumps kids do the exotic “big game” guided touristy stuff. I don’t hunt, but even I know that shiit is not real hunting. Are they real sportsmen beyond posing with a dead wooly mammoth or whatever?

Trump tried to open up ANWR to drilling, which is also supported by basically every elected republican in this country. Biden and Obama tried to block it. Those are facts. What Trump might do if re-elected because of what his kids might want is speculation.

Did anybody bother to read any of that stuff in that “Final Accomplishments” doc? Most of that stuff has little or nothing to do with actual environmental regs, and the stuff that does, is actually de-regulation.

For example it references EO 13778 and the Navigable Waters legislation. Thats the same regs referenced in the link that crappie posted, which actually ROLLED BACK environmental protections.

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