As PaFisher says, I've asked thousand why they hit and I hear not a sound except from bullheads that croak at me once in a while!
 
Even if we never know why the fish hits or if we only get a few hits, fair chase says the fish hits first, not the fisher!
 
UFZ regs in the summer say you are allowed to catch Atlantic Salmon and Ska's, but it won't be easy!  You gonna save a dime if you start seeing all the lead and the palsey up there?
 
And I fished the ballpark in the fall the last two years without ripping (and mostly without success, until after the crowd thinned), but it didn't look any different than Dougtown when the kings are in, or anywhere else on the river, and chrome season I see a lot of that on the LFZ except they use the 40 lb flyline instead of the 17 lb mono on the Fin Nor or other high dollar reel.  New Yorker's and out of staters, poachers don't recognize state lines, so if I offended anyone from OOS, sorry.
 
But I worked a long time and took a lot of S*** to get help get things to where they are now, so when the recent transplants start talking about letting it all go down  the toilet again,  I get a little hot.  The war started 30+ years ago, and if you value the quality of your environment(which is the jalorms around  you when UR fishing) and fishery, get off your mule and help do something, as 2B says or you can't ****.  Or maybe some folks (Clint definitely excluded) feel a touch guilty! 
 
"You are either part of the solution or part of the problem" - Eldridge Cleaver 
 
The Rochester Police won't even respond to an auto theft report anymore.  File a report with DMV, call it into the 311 number, we'll send you a form for the insurance company.  Now there's a solution to the crime problem.
 
Let's see what it looks like next year after every yahoo with a TV sees "The Run" on Sportsman's Network and 81 in September looks like 17 at Woodstock.  And when the word is out that no one gives a manure bag about the behavior and doesn't pull the ECO's in even if it means finding a phone, well, the I'll get on a high horse about King salmon being a pollution source to all the nearshores of the lake and we can go back to just native coasters and  Atlantics, C+R only.
 
What is right is right, and I think if they hear about it, the ECO's show up, but if everybody says FI, well, you'll get what you deserve.
 
L13    

Whoa now-
 Nobody I read here said they dont give a hoot be they outa staters, recent transplants or natives. Actally -gettin  tired of that outa stater carp.
  Point I made was that the State folks doing L/ E KNOW what the deal is and KNOW its rampant and KNOW its all over the river.
 You can callem or lead them down to the River on a leash makes no diff if they dont ACT. - Its the actiin part that is in our interest  and it also the part that seems to be a far away dream .- how much acting do we see and we are all there - some more than others but all there.?
 I recall the days when they carried big shoulder mounted cameras and had 'spotters ' stand by suspect fishermen while filming- after a tape review they would go through areas making multiple pinches. THAT sent messages. Saw it kinda regular too. NO more.
 Now when I see them its kinda one here or there and always with marked cars- even when walking around in fishing gear.
 NO push - small or large is being made by the state-and they most certainly are well aware of the situation- without that all the calls in the world cant bring in L/E that isnt assigned to the area. Hoped for a change with the training facility - but nope.
 Saying ya gotta call about a rampant activity hapenin all over that everybody already knows about.is not seeing the real issue.
 
 Hey - for a long time I fished ' poor mans salmon'= Connecticut River Shad.
 They dont hit anything either- at least for a food source= but they readily hit small spoons called 'Shad darts outa anger. Think its about the same principal with Kings.
 
 Outa Stater story- Neighbor told me 'they' know I have been gettin the 'big bucks' in the area of my place up in Richland. Told him I dont even buy a tag up there anymore and never took a Buck of any size there. Get my Deer in the backyard right here in Ct.
  He gave that knowing look and said outright they KNEW  that I had taken the Bucks -( legally I hope).
 Truth --never shot any kinda  Deer up there . He wouldnt believe it.  Darned out staters taking out the BEST is the BEST story so he stuck with it.
 Must be a buncha Outa Staters and Weekenders I hear shootin just before dark in  Summer an early Fall..lol

Question: Does anyone here call the DEC when they are fishing fly zone and seeing same people poking the same fish over and over again in the tail to only see them belly up downstream afterwards?

Question:what When fishing the ballpark in the fall for salmon there is obviously many people snagging and ripping right? With that being said, When fishing there at that time Does anyone call the DEC to report what they are seeing?


Now taking into consideration what some have said on this thread Would it be safe to assume that if you answered no to both questions here you are Just contributing to the problem?

This turned into something.    Do we call the police on every speeder we see.   Do we call on every guy we see leave the bar knowing that they are over the limit and should not be driving.   Why?????    Because it is socially acceptable behavior.   We let LE do it's job  and feel good right?     NO I pick and choose my battles because like DB said we would be calling more than fishing if we called on all of them.   BUT if I see a guy staggering out a bar and drive away I will call I he will not give his keys up

Points taken.  When I was in the ball park for 2.5 hours during Salmon, I did not see a foul hooked fish kept (there were a lot of fish on stringers, and a lot of guys with the palsey, but even more that were just clueless and probably got told to go there by the tackleshops).   And I don't own a cell phone.  But I've called in plates and descriptions on my home waters for years, and confronted people over illegal behavior.  And as 2B says, if you donl;t call out the behavior, you can;t complina about it later.  That is one of the functions of the SOL meetings, let DEC Know what you think at the end of the meeting.  At the meetings in Rochester, LE is usually there, I don't know about Oswego.  And you also have ot hold the JP's accountable by letting them know that your vote goes elsewhere if they are just dismissing all the cases.
 
L13

Clint said very well...theres that very fine line in which everyone picks and chooses when, where and how they want to cross it or walk it... i didnt physically see the steelhead get netted. Saw the guys doing something not far from the road...heard they did it... the guys pulled outta there pretty embarassed to say the least. I decided to be a spectator and let nature take its coarse. Apparently someone did call dec from what i heard but no one showed. Did see dec around throughout the day though....

Man if i could only wet a freeking line....

13 makes a great point about the courts.
   Was about the only City Cop in my family- many  of the others were Game Wardens and Fish & Game Constables. We often compared notes while fishing and hunting together and at family gatherings.
 I was a 'felony cop' for the most part and very familiar with trials and court proceedings that went 'all the way'. They generally gave out tickets for court at a later time for game violations and most often complained about their cases NOT getting much notice in the Courts.
 The Judge and prosecutors are- in most all states- greatly overwhelmed with cases to prosecute and make necessary  decisions based on that 'case load'.
  Face it- here are guys with Felony assault cases- murder and sexual assault cases, burglaries and fraud cases and Crack dealers in front of them and each trial could easily take days  in court..
 Fish and Game comes in with cases of a licensed outdoorsmen with too many Trout Pheasant  or a snagging case.
   Not hard to figure out which ones are going to a trial and which are gonna get 'negotiated' when the accused pleads not guilty..
 The only saving grace here is the fact that they have to show up in court and be inconvenienced. THAT has more juice that ya may think- especially in a fishery where so many have to make a special trip up in the first place.
  Would make an educated guess that most simply send in their fine listed on the ticket as the trip up to do otherwise is far more expensive . Even if loosing their tag for a year is part of the deal.
   Anyone trying to make a big deal out of it and pleading Not Guilty likely gets some kind of alternative- mostly  a big 'contribution' to some Charity to weasel out  of tickets- then they run around saying how they 'beat' the ticket- --they didnt -the contribution is usually way more that he ticketed fine but they never admit to that lol.
  Point-- looking up the number of actual GUILTY pleadings in such cases will often show large numbers being 'nolled' indicating nothing happened to the violator.     Most likely actual fact-- these guys were inconvenienced and pounded in the wallet by other means.
   Stats dont always tell the real story.

From what I understand here you are saying that a snagger has to go before a judge to be declared guilty in NY.Here in Penna. you are fined on the spot by the fish cop.Why the heck does a snagger have to go to court to get fined?

Different States have different laws however when getting a ticket one generally has options. Even in the most minor of offenses..
  Fish and game laws - like many MV violations-are mostly things where a ticket is given with a mail in fine attached as they are generally lower on the crime list.      Things like Deer poaching are another matter generally associated with 'higher degrees of punishment.
  Generally there is  an alternative to paying the mail in fine for the NO plea on the ticket for the things we are speaking about that do not meet the threshold of long jail terms being part of the punishment which would generally require a court appearance..-
   Mailing back  a No usually leads to the court date for the initial plea being assigned to the alleged violator by a later mailing.
 Lotsa guys simply say No hoping for overburdened courts to make adjustments..
  Am looking forward to speaking to L/E on the River asking about the NY  system but and pretty darned sure this is America and one can always plead their innocence-when any punitive action is involved  -- lol.

Again I have no cell but I have personally found an EO and told them there was flagrent law breaking going on in the LFZ .
Specificly when the 4 foot max went into effect and guys were power swinging 6 or 8 foot tippets lining fish.
I was told there was no such law and went and got my regs book and showed them the new reg.
No question of intent.
Law gave an exact distance.
If the tippet was longer you were breaking the law.
When Lucky and I fished the ball park last year we never had more than 1 or 2 others in sight and they appeared to be fishing.
Mostly bobbers.
I have problems with those that are part of the problem.
Especialy those in denial.
Tried to stay clear but if you call me out I will answer you with totally harsh honesty.
I am an open book.