Maybe it is time for a Salmon Steelhead licanse, $20 for residents and property owners, and $200 for out of staters. And M-F only like in BC.
 
Have a good trip, Fichman, I never found any of your posts problematic, and I'll miss the occasional rainbow picture from  you pond fishing excursions or the stripers. 
 
Having just returned from a great trip to Chicago, even if short and work filled, if New York wants to be the fleshpot of the fishing  world, might start looking into a move to Wisconsin or Michigan, there is a lot of water out there.
 
L13

fichy
My posts are as well received here as Chartist's, but I'll add one more before  I go back to the occasional lurk. This topic may be a moot point, as the PFR bank rights are sold in perpetuity and are maintained irrespective of property changing hands. If you look at Tailhook's  Facebook page, you'll read some interesting things between the lines. They are offering some promotional discounts for lodging and they have a plea out for guides to be on their list. This tells me a few things- that 179 bucks is not very palatable to most, and that the locals aren't fawning all over them and lining up to go into indentured servitude. They very well may attempt to get the North Bank through some legal; shenanigans, but they'll face a number of obstacles to get there.
  1. This would create an instant problem for the state boat launch- if they succeed, they very well may be forced to pay for another launch below their property.
 2. Local opinion will be such that acts of "terrorism" will be inevitable. A few clients with Ohio plates with slashed tires will put out a very effective ad campaign in the wrong direction.
 3. The state's tax coffers aren't served when you trade  the many penny pinching paupers for the well heeled occasional visitor. Local businesses will suffer, as Chartist stated he'll eat somewhere expensive, but displace 3 guys who'll spend half as much as he does. You do the math.  Tax breaks and tax write-offs do not spell profit and real revenue generation.
 4. The potential for corporate business ala conventions is on the wane.
Investors don't want to see lavish expense accounts for the mid level rabble any longer. You can easily conduct business over your phone and tele-conferencing- no need for very expensive conventions that eat profits. Many cities are dialing back on their plans for convention centers, Albany's included. TL is going to have an even harder go.
   They're starting to do the foolish practice of throwing money at a bad idea. In the end, they may hold their own, and make the 99'ers suck ****, but there will be some bad blood generated.  
   For myself, I leave for one of the premier rainbow rivers in the US next week, the San Juan. I'll spend my time doing some pretty difficult technical fishing for 20" plus bows with flies from 22 thru 28. I'll be camping for 9 bucks a night and eating off my backpacking stove. There's not much for fancy lodging nearby, anyway. The SJ seems to attract real fisherman that don't need to resort to snagging to have a successful trip. I'm also taking a rim to rim backpacking trip in the Grand Canyon , but that ain't fishin'.
It's a very sad state of affairs when people think snagging sharks in the SR is a badge of honor and a sign of angling skill. It's worth it to us that don't travel that far and  spend a lot of money on it for some laughs and fun, but pretty ludicrous to consider it on par with Atlantic Salmon fishing, or many, many other fisheries  across the economic spectrum that require real skills.
   That's enough from me for the next 6 or 7 months.
Hope everyone has a productive spring and summer.
 
 
 
 
 
 

I fished the San Juan last summer....It is not a technical river, it's a float trip down a tailwater.  The scenery is boring as you'll ever experience in a trout area.  You want a wonderful New Mexico fishing experience, try fishing further north in the Chama Valley, specifically the Brazos river....Now that's beautiful and technical.

This thread was in the dumps right after it started. Clint, you had good intentions with spreading the word though. Unfortunately its just reverting and digressing to a fly snobbery battle. Just chill the f!ck out folks and fish!!!

Sent an Email to the head of DEC this morning asking if the pfr was secured in perpetuity or not.
Let you know when I get an answer.
Also let you know if I don't get a response after a couple business days.

Thanks for the effort two Bob...

I do know in fact that a few thousand feet (approxjmately 4k) of bank front properties that nimo (nat grid) shed off about ten years ago were all deeded to be pfr bank easements for fishing purposes (only). They all included an environmental conservation easements as well to help protect the ecosystem of the drainage basin in which no building or land alteration is permitted beyond the conservation easement line. All said properties are all in conjunction with public parking and access trails... This is fact for sure!!!

Now, if I remember correctly, the last time I viewed the pfr map, the north bank that is at stake of possible loss below the rt. 52 bridge in Altmar is highlighted as pfr... the problem is nimo still owns the property and who knows what type of power they have.

Great efforts on anyones and everyone's parts for voicing their opinions thus far. Its really all we have. The politics will unfold as they always do though. Hopefully for the better of the majority in this case

The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission also requires as part of licensing of production facilities that recreational access be provided to the public.  This will need to be pursued.
 
 If somehow the Power Company sold easement rights in perpetuity to NYS and now tries to hornsawaggle them back, it might be time to urge the employment of eminent domain.  DEC has committed in the past to only obtaining access through willing seller arrangements, but if the easements have already been paid for once, there was a willing seller.
 
I might have to buy a kayak and start making multiple runs down the upper SR! Anyone for a few days flotilla at peak of salmon season?
 
L13
 

Dime is correct , the maps clearly show north bank public fishing all the way from Altmar Bridge to Pineville.  These easements were always reported by DEC personnel I have asked as traveling with the property so a new owner has to respect the easement.  The Power Company still owns the land, and can do with it what they want, even fence it, but they cannot restrict access for fishing.  Perhaps Tailwater intends to try to reverse this in court, but I would think the state would fight this aggressively, as aside from this couple of miles, they have  over 1000 other miles of PFR easements, which is an investment of New York State Taxpayer and user fee dollars of as much as 39 million. Also remember that Energy Companies, like other utilities that are natural monopolies, are held to different standards than standard "free enterprise" businesses.  So, unlike the village, who, in a home rule state like New York, could deal with anyone they wanted on a sale, in the case of an energy provider, the State might have a first right to purchase the land Of course, if the Syracuse developer is in bed with the governor.....     
 
From the DEC website:
"Since 1935, the Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) has worked with private landowners to ensure access to these prime fishing waters. During that time, nearly 1,300 miles of public fishing rights (PFR) easements have been purchased on over 400 streams across the state. The landowners participating in New York's PFR program are the key to its success, and the reason that our children will be able to continue enjoying fishing."
 
"(PFR's) are permanent easements purchased by the NYSDEC from willing landowners, giving anglers the right to fish and walk along the bank (usually a 33' strip on one or both banks of the stream). This right is for the purpose of fishing only and no other purpose. Treat the land with respect to insure the continuation of this right and privilege. Fishing privileges may be available on some other private lands with permission of the land owner." 
 
L13

After reading the latest posts I doubt that the Tailwater scumbag hotel will be able to restrict access on the north side.But as I said before they,the Tailwater scumbag,will NEVER see any of my money....EVER!

Well Pa seems fired up too.. Thanks for the support.. I really hated to lose that South bank of water where I actually cut my teeth but still have to say, we , NY gave it up and they took advantage.. I have stayed at their other places in Cuse on a corporate dime.. I will not however again knowing they now control my fishing access.. 
 
L-13 points the facts as we know, I'm sure many things we do not also, and may never will.. If we lose what we think or have been posted as PFR then it will indeed be a huge blow to the outdoor communities, not just our fishers.. To me it seems dirty but to some suits it may seem a business deal and move forward.. Don't think I will ever leave New York.. I have been to many great places in this country that I stand in AWE , even Pa but I have lived my life here and find the opportunities for recreation that suites my clothes, not my suit. In a few short weeks there will be Ocean run 40# Striped bass in my back yard..
Lets just hope all good things remain the same or better..
Peace & Tuna 

pafisher
After reading the latest posts I doubt that the Tailwater scumbag hotel will be able to restrict access on the north side.But as I said before they,the Tailwater scumbag,will NEVER see any of my money....EVER!

Yea I see them trying to restrict access and make people walk up the easement, the next fight would be where is the easement end.   I could also see them riding it out a little  and when people start leaving garbage everywhere then saying the PFR is lowering the property values or something like that.   Lawyers are slimy tricky people