Just to turn the tables a little more.....

The FFO section of Yellow Creek IS the hardest fished section of stream. That short stretch gets fished every single day by more than a few people. On weekends during the spring, there are more people piled into that short stretch than any other section of YC. Each weekend it would remind you of the first day of regular season. FFO sections do at times tend to draw more people to a stretch of water. Why? I think its because of people believing since a section was special enough to exclude some people, the fishing must be the best there. Take the case of the SRC water on the LJ in spruce creek. Once that was opened to the public, TONS of people fish it, because they feel it must be the best water since it was privatized for a while.

ORIGINAL: Thats_Hot

ORIGINAL: dano

After reading this discussion, the only conclusion I can make is to deem the whole river as... Worms Only. Single Barbless Hooks.
This would protect the fishery by keeping down the number of fisherman on the stream and limiting the threat of invasive species.
Of course the fly fishermen might feel excluded . They really shouldn't. All the have to do is change tactics.

At the least, they could make just a section of the stream "Worm Only". Maybe between the bridges from Spruce to Barree.

There's a table turner.  Good argument against those that don't think changing these regs actually "excludes" anyone.  Since I only fly fish, it sure would exclude me.

 
Does it exclude you, or do you exclude you?
 
If there was a section like that, what would stop you from getting a spinning rod and chucking some bait?
 
By saying "since I only fly fish" you have made yourself FFO.
 

I think some people are missing the point here. The little Juniata IS a PUBIC stream. The vast majority of streams are not public. The fight against allowing the river to be private was funded by the commonwealth, the publics money paid for this case. Even making it harder for the public to fish it by making them buy new tackle to do so, is not fair.

The little Juniata Assoc. wants everyone to believe their are dead trout constantly floating downstream from all the bait and spin fisherman on the river. That is not true. I could count on one hand, the number of dead trout I see in the river every year. I can assume that plenty of them have died of natural causes, and not only by a spin fisherman.

Being catch and release only, the river doesnt have the crowd of fisherman who dont know how to handle fish, like stocked streams so often do. Yes, I have seen my share of people that grip fish too tightly or handle them too long, or hold the fish out of the water for too many glamour shots, but the people who do this are just as often fellow fly fisherman, who dont know any better.

Should Bill Anderson or anyone in the little J assoc. be considered an expert or authority on this subject? NO. Remember, this movement is coming from the same guy who said on the spruce creek fly co. forum, that the numbers of green drakes on the Little J has decreased because too many birds were eating them. Anyone who fishes the river enough and knows anything about the green drake knows that their numbers decreased on the river as the amount of silt decreased. I wouldnt consider anyone who makes such an outrageous comment to be an expert on the little J.

Solution:

1 - Take down that nasty picture of what ever she is supposed to be.
2 - Bait fishing from the right bank only.
3 - fly fishing from the left bank only.

ORIGINAL: thedrake

ORIGINAL: S-10

Sooo-- after spending the bait fishermens money to fight Beaver and his special interest group for access to the stream some are suggesting we should replace his group with another special interest group. Some are using the logic that removing bait fishermen would lessen the mortality rate and make for a better C&R stream. Wellll--- Since the Erie tribs are a put and take fishery dependent on yearly stockings and not C&R I guess we should make them bait only to offset the streams some of the fly snobs want to take over for themselves. I carry both and use whatever is hot at the time because my objective is to catch fish not wash flies. I fish with a guy that won't use anything but a fly that he has tied himself even if I am standing beside him outfishing him 10 to one and offer him what I am using. He doesn't try to make me change  or go somewhere else and neither should you. Drake has the right attitude on this one. Next the vintage bamboo rodders will want their own section, don't forget an Orvis section, how about one for #20 and smaller hooks. We all pay for a license and what some are suggesting is exactly what Beaver is doing. My 2 cents

"an Orvis section"

Now that would be funny...a bunch of walking orvis catalogs with their own section of water, wearing the latest pastel colored orvis fishing shirts, getting their wonderline tangled in the trees.

 
But Simms would be okay?
 
Sorry, I just got my CC statement with the jacket on it.

Of course Simms would be okay DD.  They make a great product.  Orvis .... hmmmmmmmmm...wellllllllllllllllll.   Not so sure about that.  They stand between their products however!!!

ORIGINAL: duncsdad

ORIGINAL: thedrake

ORIGINAL: S-10

Sooo-- after spending the bait fishermens money to fight Beaver and his special interest group for access to the stream some are suggesting we should replace his group with another special interest group. Some are using the logic that removing bait fishermen would lessen the mortality rate and make for a better C&R stream. Wellll--- Since the Erie tribs are a put and take fishery dependent on yearly stockings and not C&R I guess we should make them bait only to offset the streams some of the fly snobs want to take over for themselves. I carry both and use whatever is hot at the time because my objective is to catch fish not wash flies. I fish with a guy that won't use anything but a fly that he has tied himself even if I am standing beside him outfishing him 10 to one and offer him what I am using. He doesn't try to make me change  or go somewhere else and neither should you. Drake has the right attitude on this one. Next the vintage bamboo rodders will want their own section, don't forget an Orvis section, how about one for #20 and smaller hooks. We all pay for a license and what some are suggesting is exactly what Beaver is doing. My 2 cents

"an Orvis section"

Now that would be funny...a bunch of walking orvis catalogs with their own section of water, wearing the latest pastel colored orvis fishing shirts, getting their wonderline tangled in the trees.

But Simms would be okay?

Sorry, I just got my CC statement with the jacket on it.

 
Simms would be somewhat better....at least their shirts arent pastel colored.
 
If you can make it out sometime to get your moneys worth out of that jacket, let me know.

Should Bill Anderson or anyone in the little J assoc. be considered an expert or authority on this subject? NO. Remember, this movement is coming from the same guy who said on the spruce creek fly co. forum, that the numbers of green drakes on the Little J has decreased because too many birds were eating them. Anyone who fishes the river enough and knows anything about the green drake knows that their numbers decreased on the river as the amount of silt decreased. I wouldnt consider anyone who makes such an outrageous comment to be an expert on the little J.

HI all
   Good posts and discussion. I remember, that post when Bill made it and I could not believe that he said what he said. I believe that the river org. is a plus for the river but are off base on this issue. I have a trailer on the j and fish most every day in spring and summer, I am a avid  fly fisherman and I killed two fish over 20 inches last year. Both fish died as a result of surface fishing so maybe we should stop dry flies?   I think the river belongs to all, and if the fish are handled properly bait is OK.

                                                         John

I agree that having the river org. can be a good thing, but I feel that they are forgeting that having less fisherman able to fish the river means less support. At this point, I cant help but feel one of their original objectives was to make the river ffo. Afterall, Donny Beaver mentioned in the newspapers and on the SRC website, that he worked closely with the little juniata river assoc. to change the regulations. This is a major reason why I would never join the LJRA.
 
More fisherman means more people looking out for the river. Take away people from the river, and you take away watchfull eyes that will report dumping along the river, fish kills, illegal activity, and so on... Us flyfishers cant forget that we arent the only people who are concerned about our waters.
 
There are plenty of fly fisherman who think they are conservationists simply because they are carrying a fly rod, or a TU membership card. These are often the same people who, when they catch suckers, throw them up on the bank, forgetting that suckers are more native than most of the trout they fish for. I guess my point is, some flyfishers, even though they believe they're conservationists, are quite the opposite. If you take away everyone but fly fishers, you'll still have people that grip the fish too tightly, use barbed hooks, and hold fish out of the water too long during glamour shots.
 
Sorry for the rant....

ORIGINAL: thedrake
Should Bill Anderson or anyone in the little J assoc. be considered an expert or authority on this subject? NO. Remember, this movement is coming from the same guy who said on the spruce creek fly co. forum, that the numbers of green drakes on the Little J has decreased because too many birds were eating them. Anyone who fishes the river enough and knows anything about the green drake knows that their numbers decreased on the river as the amount of silt decreased. I wouldnt consider anyone who makes such an outrageous comment to be an expert on the little J.

I seem to remember Bill Anderson and Eric Stroup talking about this too.  Didn't it have to do with too many bridges and the fact that bridges weren't natural habitat (implying that the bridges created too much habitat for the birds and bats).  Think they ever heard of trees?  I think they were considering methods to capture the birds and bats so they could be placed elsewhere.  Crazy!

I heard about this white-nosed syndrome that's killing a lot of bats in the Northeast (http://www.fws.gov/northeast/white_nose.html) and after realizing what a major catastrophe this could be, thought maybe Bill Anderson has poisoned the bats and Eric Stroup is shaving them for tying material!  Now that's funny!