Now that Donny Beaver is done trying to take over the Little J, I've heard a lot of talk about wanting to make it bait free.  People like Bill Anderson and Brian "Ranger" Keen are running the Little Juniata River Association with a main objective to make the Little Juniata bait free and eventually fly fishing only (according to some old posts on various forums by Brian Keen).  They consider this action protecting the stream.  Do you think this would be right?  Isn't this basically what Donny Beaver was doing... deciding who should and shouldn't be allowed to use the Little Juniata?

The reasons I don't think it's a good idea are for one, I don't think Allan Bright (Spruce Creek Outfitters), PADEP, PAFBC, or DCNR took the case to court for everyone except bait fishermen.  They did it for the public in general.  Two, any type of fishing is still a blood sport.  We all kill fish no matter what tackle we're using and how careful we are.  Three, I've seen a lot of bait fisherman handle and release fish a hell of a lot better than a lot of fly fisherman.  Four, I became attached to fishing by starting with bait on the Little J.  I only fly fish now, but I'm not sure I would be doing that if it wasn't for starting with a spinning rod.  If my family had waited to take me fishing until I was 10 and could control a fly rod, I'd probably have been into too many other things to get into it.  And six, the most important, the more people, including bait fisherman, which use the Little J the better.  Used public resources are generally better protected from people like Donny Beaver than unused resources.

Also, Donny Beaver has sited multiple times the great work he has done with the Little Juniata River Association to change the regulations from Trophy Trout to Catch and Release on the Little Juniata.  While I think that was an OK change, why would you team up with Donny Beaver to convince PFBC about anything?  Seems fishy.   I'd like to hear what the general opinion is out there.  I'd also suggest making sure Doug Austen, the PFBC Director, knows your opinion.  I've heard the issue will be before the PFBC commissioners in April.  It will be bad in my opinion if only the Little Juniata River Association and its few members are the only voices heard.  I believe Doug Austen's email is dausten@state.pa.us. The PFBC also has a comment section on their website at http://www.fish.state.pa.us/promo/form/web_emails.htm.  Not sure who gets the comments, so I'd suggest sending a message to Austen and the website comment.

If any change is made, it should be made to simply protect the fish, and not to prevent anglers from fishing there. It is afterall, public water, and the publics money went to fight for it.

Fishing single barbless hooks only, would be the direction I would want to see the regulations go. Barbless hooks DO cause less damage to fish, and you can fish them with lures, bait and flies.

It seems to me, the LJRA simply wants the river to be fly fish only, because thats what they do. They are simply trying to draw the line in a spot that still allows them to fish.

We all have to keep in mind, that any kind of fishing is somewhat damaging to the fish. If you truly dont ever want to hurt a trout, you probably shouldnt ever touch even a fly rod even with barbless flies, or better yet, we shouldn't even step in the stream. Handling a trout alone is bad for them.

All this being said, I only fly fish, and this point of view is coming from someone who doesnt touch any other kind of tackle and hasnt for plenty of years.

anadromous.  Sorry for the Rosie picture.  It was funny at the time... maybe it needs changed.

I understand your point about it being different from what Beaver tried.  And I agree that the Little Juniata River Association is not saying that some people who don't have the money shouldn't be allowed to fish.  But, it is exclusionary to say artificial lures or fly fishing only.  There are a number of people who just wouldn't fish there if they changed the regs.  It's basically saying that if you don't fish like us (with a fly rod) you can't fish here.  The analogy is Beaver saying if you don't pay me $XX,XXX you can't fish here.  In my opinion, and we all have them, it is exclusionary.

And are bait fisherman really the big threat to the Little Juniata River?  As far as I can remember they've always fished there even when it didn't have special regs.  Anyone could keep fish.  Now it's all catch and release.  There just seems to be better ways of protecting the river than trying to decide who can and can't fish there.  Maybe we should limit the number of times a month any one person can fish the river.  Hell, maybe we should just stop fishing it like thedrake said.  It just seems ridiculous after all the money the state has put into keeping the river open to the public anyone would even conceive we should now limit which part of public should be allowed to fish it.

I think what he is saying is since the Little J is a public fishery, we shouldn't exclude people from fishing it. Most other streams are privately owned, and it is more fair to set different regs on them.

Like thedrake said, the Little Juniata was deemed a public stream.  I don't think it should be changed to fly fishing only (FFO).  I never said I didn't believe in any special regulations.  My personal opinion is that there are a lot of naturally reproducing trout populations in a lot small streams in the state which need protection.  I'm not sure making them FFO is the way to go.  Maybe closing them during spawning seasons or making them single barbless hook streams would be more beneficial to the fish.  You know as well as I do that there are a lot of fly fisherman out there that do a horrible job of quickly landing and properly releasing fish.  Or ones that fish over redds during the spawn.  The only reason FFO benefits a stream more than single barbless hook regs (or someother non-exclusionary reg) is because FFO limits the number of people that will fish it.  Is that really what we want to do with a stream like the Little Juniata?  There are many other ways to protect streams than to exclude a certain type of fisherman. 

I agree with drake that it would be great
to make the stream barbles. makes releasing
fish much quicker & I also started with a spinning
rod but have only fished with flies for about the
last 40 years.
    but I think all should be allowed to fish with what
they use but barbles would be great.

no tina mad a me For the record I would like to see the LJ or any water in general to be selective harvest over 18 inches year round. Excluding, is not the right thing to do, nor deprive a fisherman/women of perhaps the biggest fish him/her has ever caught. The LJ is a gem of a stream that grows big trout let the fishermen/women fish.
Chris 

Right back:
But how many fishermen C&R with bait?

I fish the little J at least once a week, and much more in the spring/summer. I gotta say, the little J is in great shape right now. There are lots of fish, and plenty of big fish that will make your reels scream. There are people fishing it with bait every day, and believe it or not, there aren't dead trout everywhere with snelled hooks hanging out of their mouths. If there were, I would be the first to say no to bait.
 
I get the idea that the "studies" that have been done are objective rather than subjective. They were done with a point to prove. I read one study that says there is a 50% mortality rate with bait. We all know that is not true. I am sure that the mortality rate is higher with bait, but that is more likely because of the fisherman than bait.
 
I would estimate about 90 percent of the fishermen on the LJ at any given time are flyfishers anyway. I dont often see bait used.
 
With single barbless hooks, you can remove a hook no matter where it is. I cant really see the mortallity rate of fish caught on a barbless hook with bait being much higher than with barbless flies.
 
 

Back before I went to strictly fly I used to fish bait. I can count on one hand the amount of fish I ever lost. IF... i wasnt paying attention and the swallowed the hook I just cut it. I think a good bait fisherman doesnt have that too often.