Is lining an acceptable catch? I can definitely see when someone is blatently trying to rip the rod up, but it seems like the lining of the fish is not as frowned upon. Even a lot of the pictures up on here show the fly hooked on the outside of the jaw, which to me would be lined. Is the action of the rod what truly makes the snagger? Would the DEC hit you for having a fly on the outside of the jaw?

Up here where? I've haven't seen a single pic on here that shows a fly outside the mouth. Does it happen? Of course, it'll happen in any water that holds lots of fish. Most of us here try not to fish that way. I doubt the DEC would do anything if it was outside the mouth, keeping one snagged on top of the head, yeah.

dtrobe
Is lining an acceptable catch? I can definitely see when someone is blatently trying to rip the rod up, but it seems like the lining of the fish is not as frowned upon. Even a lot of the pictures up on here show the fly hooked on the outside of the jaw, which to me would be lined. Is the action of the rod what truly makes the snagger? Would the DEC hit you for having a fly on the outside of the jaw?

 
 Snatching, lifting, hooking and use of tip-ups are not angling
 
Fishing means the taking, killing, netting, capturing or withdrawal of fish by any means. This includes every attempt to take fish, plus assisting another person in taking or attempting to take fish.
 
Snatching means taking fish not attracted by bait or artificial lure with hooks, gangs or similar devices whether or not baited. Snagging, lifting, and single hook snagging are types of snatching. Snatching is indicated by repeated or exaggerated jerking motions of the fishing rod
 
Right from the DEC regulation book. You make the call on it.   it all boils down to intent.
 
Jack I have not really talked to him in depth about it. I don't want to drag him down when he is at home unwinding, especially during crazy season.  I have talked  to him only briefly.
Here is my take. Sure they could write 1000 tickets, but it is like speeding. If the cops wrote tickets for everyone speeding no one would get to work, the courts would be mired down and the officers would be in court and not on the river. It's alot of water if you include the Oswego (where the problem is just as bad) and all the tribs. Even with the extra man power you can't be everywhere. Place into that the impact on the economy if folks did not come to fish. Lets just say that the fine for snagging was 5k and it was STRICTLY ENFORCED. What would that do to numbers of people coming in????????  I think their attitude is lets get the blatant law breakers a ticket and kinda let the others go, maybe get one every now and then just to let them know were there.   Like going 74mph on the thruway your breaking the law, but most of the time you won't get pulled over......... unless that cop is having a bad day.............

I didn't mean to say I was endorsing snagging.  I do not at all.  But, even when I went with a guide up there, it seems like the consensus on technique is use as much weight as it takes to skip off the bottom of the river.  Throw the line in about 10:00 and let it drift to about 2:00, then repeat.  We are trying to present the bait to the waiting or moving fish in front of it's face in order to entice it enough or pizz it off enough to take it.  My question is, aren't a lot of the good hook ups, having the bait come across the mouth at the 2:00 when you are on the upswing?  Wouldn't this be a good line?  I apologize for my ignorance.  I just don't want to be one of the foul hookers that you guys dislike so much.  As far as the cleanliness and drunkeness of many people up there....there is no reason for that.  I always try to bring out stuff that I did not come in with to help the problem.  But, boys will be boys unfortunately.

fichy
On saturday, with the exception of Uglyfish, some guys in a driftboat throwing plugs, and a few Spey guys, I saw absolutely no one  trying to fish legally. Most were ripping away or attempting to floss with mega-weight, accompanied by the end- of- drift- rip. . Lots standing and looking, waiting to rip. A couple chasing, as they had put the hooks for a brief moment, supposedly, into one lone runner they  trapped against a shallow ledge.
It reminds me of Sioux running buffalo off a cliff or paintings of Neanderthals with spears chasing wooly mammoths. It has as much to do with sport as child abuse and wife beating has to do with football.
I can remember when I went with a bunch of loggers from the daks in the 80's what it was like.  It's a mindset that's fueled by testosterone, adrenaline and alcohol.  That's not always a bad thing, by any means, but the herd mentality of the snaggers is  a hard thing to take for those who really love to fish and see it as a sport to be treated with respect and dignity.  Salmon snagging is more a male bonding, primitive rite.  BB, I can't imagine what you go through working there. Just take comfort in the fact you might influence a few people  a season. Not much of a victory, but a victory nonetheless.

A big part of why I wait until mid October and go seeking the smaller (but so much faster) chrome!  If I want to fish earlier, I can got to the Genny.  At least on the Genesee, many of the snaggers are urban poor who are not traveling big distances, and spending the big bucks to inflate their egos.
 
Nicely put, Fichy.
 
L13

If you are throwing up and across with a lot of weight letting a large downstream belly build it will accelerate the pace of the fly causing a higher % of flossed fish.
If you are leading the weight across and down with the rod rather than following it you will accelerate the speed of the fly causing more lined fish.
If you are high stick nymphing straight down you will foul fish (it happens and we all know it we just try as hard as we can to lessen the amount it does) but mostly on fins ,the belly or under the chin.
You will line relatively few.
Key is if you are trying to slow down the swing you will line few.
If you are speeding up the swing you will foul and line more.
 

I also don't recall any pictures of fish that were lined ( hook on outside ) and in fact don't take any pics of fish I may have lined. Yea it happens but not by intention .
As you read my reply to your weight question it explained how NOT to line fish.
What's with the tip- ups Clint ? You mean I can't uses tip- ups anymore ???
I'm a bad boy too db, didn't know there was a time restraint on beverages but acting like a darn fool is not acceptable , being silly is :)

HT-
I think tip ups are not considered angling because you set them and go, unlike a jig rod that you keep working.  But they are still legal for fishing where ice fishing is allowed.
 
L13

Here's a tip- instead of lifting the rod tip when it gets partway downstream, which creates a sweep that is a most effective lining method, let the drift continue until it is directly downstream, let it hang a few seconds (steelhead often will hit then)  then strip or reel it in and re-cast. Also, think about trying to keep everything in a straight line drift. There's a reason you are limited to 4' of tippet or distance from your weight. The weight bouncing  on the bottom with your hook drifting way off to the side is asking for a fish to be lined. Some guides make their living on this.  I like to distribute some small shot to get my drift down quick and have a straight line back to the rod tip.  A small shot pinched above the fly/whatever about 18" really helps to get your offering in the zone and keeps the geometry of the drift in favor of the fish.  Pafisher uses a small shot above his flies, and out of the dozens of salmon and steel I've seen him land, I've never seen one outside of the mouth. Most of us are of the no pic if it's snagged school. People can do what they want. DEC has very little effect on stopping them. Myself, I like the challenge of trying to fair hook.