2014/10/13 17:38:51
twobob
Please go back and see that I said 90% of people fishing light line and small flies were lining intentionally.
Lighter line and small flies may well up the numbers of biters under conditions like today.
Fish that have been beaten on terribly for several days straight.
You may well get a few neutral fish to eat if you put them close enough with a drag free drift.
 
For me those are not the fish I am looking for.
I am fishing for the most aggressive fish not the timid ones.
It is my choice.
I would rather catch fewer fish but have no thought that I may have lined one.
Thick rope and big flies for me.
If I smell of skunk I enjoyed the fishing and not the catching.
 
Today I fished low in the morning and didn't see 1 fish hooked.
Went to lfz around 9:30 
The only fish I saw till I left around noon were foul hooked.
The top rod was on the north side of Church.
Walking up and down the shore spoting fish and hooking them.
Some up front some not so much.
Heard the question "what color"
and people happy to tell what their secret color was.
Of course if you looked carefully at the leaping salmon you could have figured it out by looking at the flie in the fishes back.
2014/10/13 17:55:14
pafisher
2B,I can just picture what you said.Last year there was a "stealth" lifter hooking up across from me,when the fish swam close I would see the hook up and I would yell "right in the dorsal",then one would leap and I would yell "in the belly",didn't bother the "angler" 'cause all he wanted was a bend in the rod.
By the way,a King Salmon rarely leaps when hooked in the mouth.
2014/10/13 18:28:48
twobob
Probably less than 1 in 25 Jack.
 
 
2014/10/13 18:56:42
Clint S
Well I guess I am not in that majority, because my 6# drennon is like 10# and 6 to 12 are my sizes. I will use some 14 and real 4# but usually in winter.  Lining one or a foul hook here or there is inevitable every now and then and it's gong to happen, but when it is the norm there is an issue.  Had a guy last year offer to change my rig and show me how last year. Told me not enough weight, tippet too short (his was 3.5 feet) and letting it drift too far down stream.
 
TB as far as aggressive fish, that was one of the speakers points, the larger fish are not necessarily the most aggressive. They go big and old, by being cautious on where they lie, what they eat and when they move.
 
2014/10/13 22:46:40
Lucky13
And those straight up and down pockets they are holding in, and you will usually be fishing during colder water times.
 
Why would you fish those spots in a river filled with swing opportunities like the SR, although this is exactly how you have to fish IC or many Finger Lakes Tribs.  But you will also foul hook a large percentage in those spots.
 
At least this time of year, you can find something the length of a VW bus  about 3 feet deep and a little faster than walking pace, and you can swing that water with next to no lead, and if there are chromers moving through, you should get a handshake that will about take your arm off! 
 
L13 
2014/10/14 03:49:28
twobob
Clint S
 
TB as far as aggressive fish, that was one of the speakers points, the larger fish are not necessarily the most aggressive. They go big and old, by being cautious on where they lie, what they eat and when they move.
 




Clint in stream trout (especially browns) I believe that to be true.
 
BUT  in the case of steelfish and salmon not so much.
They get big in the lake for 1 of 2 reasons.
They are more aggressive and out compete the rest at the dinner table or they stay an extra year.
 
Being big doesn't mean you are smart.
I am the poster child for this truism.
 
2014/10/14 06:38:59
dimebrite2
2b thanks for validating my observations of the fishing above rt. 52. From what I see its primarily foul hooks not lining. Do you recall less foul hooks occurring before the new regs were implemented?
2014/10/14 06:56:29
fichy
I imagine he was referring to steel that had returned to the lake at least once, and of course, run the gauntlet.  The first winter trip to the SR I was introduced to small, all black, no sparkle, no flash, stones. The guide, who is very popular, said they were his number one producing fly, and others stood by them , also.  I also later got to watch the Yankee Angler at work, who is the absolute King of Chuck and Duck. He's capable of making steelhead look like bluegills in a fishbowl. Seen it and done it. I heard a number of talented lifters in the Church Pool talking about their fly- the "redhead" that's on his site. I quickly deduced this is why the argument on the Trinity in Calif. against tiny flies, where large stones abound in a 100 miles of freestone river bed is just as prevalent as here. There you can use a multiple fly rig which I would use in the winter here in a heartbeat. I fished Capnidae imitations in the dead of late winter for years, in east and west coast rivers  but never caught a large trout on them. Most stoneflies are in 2 year cycles, but the first instars (shedding of the exoskeleton to grow larger or change phases of life) , leave them unavailable to trout. The developing stages of stones don't leave them out cavorting in the current.  One Feb. day on the SR after a morning of cold and Lake effect, the sun popped out and the temp rose close to 40 degrees. There was good amounts of
the winter stones crawling out, but I chose to swing flies under the 52 bridge with great results. I did the same when I saw them on smaller trout streams. They were a marker for activity, not the real hatch themselves. I do know for a fact that guides and people that have spent a lot of time observing steelhead know all about aversion therapy. A small black speck , traveling at the same pace as the current does not trigger a steelhead to move away in a defensive response. If you're going to run light tippet across a fishes mouth or try to place a hook in its body, small so called stones, fit the bill. Not so easily accomplished with other  stones and larger patterns with flash like peacock (my favorite since I was a kid) .  Or a chartreuse caddis pupae, for that matter.  Will steel eat small insects? Yes. but more likely  large  midge pupae  than the  small winter stones crawling along the bottom to exit on the snowbanks. 
2014/10/14 07:52:28
twobob
No dime.
Sad to say that after the first season the lfz opened it has been the same.
I will say that the stealth attempt has risen.
Early on it was locals thumbing their noses at the regs and being dinks because they thought of the fly guys as snobs.
 
I dislike the new breed much more.
They for the most part seem to care about image more than ethics.
 
The T U clubs running group trips (haven't seen it in  a while or they have stopped wearing their hats)
that used to come play foul fish out all day pull out the hook and then take pictures pist me off more than anything.
If you can't proudly take the pic as is don't take the pic at all ash hole.
2014/10/14 08:44:22
hot tuna
I am going to say more foul hooks were evident prior to the reg changes in the zones.
I started fishing the UFZ the day after it first opened publicly.
Remember , back then as long as it was a fly rod and reel, anything else flew. No weight restrictions, leader lengths to weight and if the line was coated it was ok. Running line, 6' tippets to weight and slinkies were the norm.
Some guides mentioned were the kings of the zones for quite awhile passing these methods along to their clients. We used to nick name them.

As to now, its kinda as 2 b says , a different breed and many of them use very long rods , aka red light district , that " sweep " the entire run or pool. The majority of them I would see " sweeping " would hook them on the far side of a fishes body.
The other group who would foul usually had excessive weight well over the 1/8 oz and go to the max and beyond the 4' tippet length , aka dummy ticket.
So I certainly believe the new , current regs have helped and would be effective if people followed them.
You gotta realize, it's a super high concentration area for fish all winter as is say the schoolhouse and believe me, many fish are lined there as well . Try putting a weight restriction there and I'd bet the ratio decrease a bit as well.

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account