2014/11/13 10:26:16
hot tuna
The theory the state pushed to the local with doing away with legal snagging was that it would bring a better economy to the region. Folks would be buying more and better tackle instead of $0.25 weighted treble hooks.
I get that theory , we just need the state to put it into effect instead of turning the blind eye..
Db, I'm sure the court gets a number of tickets . I think as 2 b stated , their powers are limited and most of the tickets get tossed or the fines are so miniiscule that there really is no deturrant .
Not faulting the encon or the courts but the system sucks and do the people who snag just to get a " hook up "
2014/11/13 10:43:24
twobob
It at least used to be that the fines went into the general fund.
The court got minimal amount for doing the extra work and the DEC LE got no return.
Kind of hard to get to fired up under those terms
 
Raised fines with a progressive fine structure (first fish $500, second fish$1000 plus the first $500 and so on) with the fines split between LE (for more enforcement) the court involed and the general fund might make it worthwhile and get results.
Anyone obeying the law has no reason to oppose this.
2014/11/13 11:11:24
bigbear2012
Unfortunate how deeply inbedded the illegal activity has become in the river culture.  Just like the speeding on the highway....it has been accepted as a societal norm and will be very hard to extinguish.  It could be done, and yes enforcement of the laws would go a long way toward that end, but it is the fishing culture that has to change or we are all just wasting our breath.
 

2014/11/14 08:06:11
twobob
Certainly right on that BB.
Letting snagging in the first place was a huge mistake.
The DEC figured that out.
It has led to the instant gratification generation of fishers we have now.
Easier is better.
Watch the boober.
Get a fish counter.
Those are the people really fishing.
What else can we expect out of the people that don't care about the law or other peoples rights but only about themselves?
 
Again fine a few people a couple thou and take there equipment and maybe the message would get across that it isn't worth it.
2014/11/14 08:59:41
troutbum21
This is what I learned in my years in LE:
     Summonses and stiff fines don't deter anything. 
     The fear of being caught doesn't stop the illegal behavior.
     The confiscation of property is nothing but a temporary setback.
Calling for a sliding scale for chronic infractions of EnCon violations when we rarely treat crimes (misdemeanors and felonies) in such a manner is not the answer especially if you have the ability to pay.
Suspending/revoking licenses does not work.  Think I'm wrong, you would be shocked to know how many people still drive with suspended/revoked licenses. 
So what's next...  A year in the county jail?
At no other time and place is the disregard for the law so widespread as during silly season.  Unfortunately egos get in the way of fair chase and common sense.  
The draconian solution is to make all tributaries catch and release only.  Perhaps not being able to keep fish would drive those not interested in the rules of fair chase off the fishery.
 
 
 
2014/11/14 09:04:16
bigbear2012
The most disturbing part of all this to me is the slop over to steel head.  On the erie tribs the snagging is rampant.  Now i see it more and more on the ontario tribs.
 
2014/11/14 09:06:20
twobob
Pretty sure I remember a fairly high up in the DEC telling lucky the solution would be to stop the stocking.
 
 
Don't want that but a large decrease in stocking numbers to the point that getting skunked is a real probability I could live with.
And catch and release until enough salmon were in the hatchery to sustain the lowered number.
 
Make it hard and the dregs don't show up as the down years proved.
2014/11/14 10:56:50
r3g3
Think closing the hatchery is kinda like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Not in the picture,
I do however, believe a one fish daily limit of any kind of fish would stop a bit of the madness.
That means if you have one on the stringer ya gotta stop-period- even in the private areas.
Also a two fish a year limit might help albeit  bit hard to enforce but it sends a message. Those freezing, smoking and guiding could be checked for ownership of fillets quite easily.
Imagine if each license came with two tags that MUST be placed on the fish upon keeping it-with a heavy fine and loss of fishing license and equipment loss for anyone possessing  an untagged fish.
 A similar tag system is  how it is for Atlantics in Nova Scotia. No more tags no more fishing.
Of course an improved enforcement effort would be nice but its never happened yet and unlikely in the future.
 There are only so many wardens and hunting seasons are open bout the same time the fish run so they get spread thin .
Closing tribs because of improper methodology is like closing the highway systems cause people speed. Cart before the horse and total unwillingness to face the real issue.
2014/11/14 11:52:40
dimebrite2
Man you're hitting the nail right on the head rt... Same for you troutbum... I was gonna refer to new Brunswick and Nova Scotia tagging system as well. Maybe a lake Ontario tribs stamp in which you receive the hypothetical amount of tags per species... But then the cleaning stations and smoke houses will complain... Its a lose lose battle in the long run
2014/11/14 11:59:05
BeenThereDoneThat.
Do you speed when you see a patrol car sitting on the side of the road, (unless your DUI or a complete moron) not likely.  However, it's 'pedal to the medal' when the patrol car is outa sight.    We all know there is not enough enforcement personnel to watch every sq. ft. of field and stream every hour of, every day.  We all know summons issued for violations will, for the most part, be thrown out of court.  You should know those charged with law enforcement are certainly stretched to their limits.  You should know, the budget for these agencies, will not allow for a abundance of full time personnel.    Many of the cases being thrown out of court are results of no-shows by the arresting officer, faults found in the way the summons was haphazardly written and, the court being backlogged with other cases.  
 
In my book, fines received should be returned to the coffers of the agencies for use in that budget.  From that fund stipends could be used as a token of appreciation and, issued to those that work part time.   The idea, in this case, is to put more uniforms into field and stream where they will be seen and seen again.
 
Let's go back to the boy seen dragging fish and assumed to be snagging with, daddy standing across the stream.  Not likely anybody taking it upon themselves to confront the boy or, his father.  Not likely the boy will pay attention to what he hears from you anyway and, daddy may feel the urge to tell you to go mind your own business let alone, you could be cited for harassing a child.  Now dawn a uniform and replay the scenario, maybe the kid will listen maybe he won't but, he is left with a vision and there is record of him receiving a lecture.  Daddy steps in the way, daddy gets's a summons for interfering and because there is additional help the arresting officer can take his time and write the summons properly and, appear at the hearing. 
 
Also, there is a coalition with many states today that share in the information on the slobs breaking the law.  Losing your privilege to fish/hunt in one state, lose it in other states.  The more data compiled on an individual the more info to get a conviction the next time, regardless of what (member) state the info came from.  But that info does not exist if there is no one to write it.
 
Not trying to be long winded, just saying, 'seeing is believing' and/or 'ought of sight; out of mind'.
 
PS. You see me walking down the street and you just see another individual.  You see me walking down the street dressed in uniform.....
 
PSS. for those having visions of creating a 'Police State' scenario; what have you to hide?
 
 

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