Rich,are those 2 yr Atlantics being released and if released will they survive?

West Coast streams are considered very sterile in relation to the tributaries to LO, very little nutrients for maintaining the ecosystem without the salmon carcasses.  In LO Tribs, salmon carcasses are a pollutant source (nutrients, and the contaminants that cause the consumption advisory), many of the streams and even the SR have plenty of phosphorus and nitrogen without the additional decomposition by-products.  The Genesee used to get so full of rotting fish carcasses by the end of snagging that you had to wait for a couple of weeks and some high water for the stench to subside, and I've had days when I got out of the LFZ quickly because the back channels were so full of "stankers."
 
A long time ago it was explained that, on a dollar per dollar basis, it is possible to raise 100 kings, 10 steelhead, or one Atlantic to stocking size.    A large number of the smaller AS that went in last fall and some of the other stocker AS come from the USGS BRD facility in Cortland, DEC fish come from Saranac.   Lakers and AS are native species, and there are objectives for the lake that involve restoration of native species, so I don't think these programs go away for a while even though at least the AS is a small program.  But with the snafu's with the Federal Laker hatchery system, I would not be surprised if the Lake Trout numbers are also part of the discussion about what to do, as they are having to hunt for fish again.  
 
Smelt and Emeralds are in such low numbers as to be nearly not a factor.  And Gobies have a benthic orientation even if they are out to 200 ft, while Kings and Steelhead orient to thermal breaks out over even deeper water once the summer stratification starts to occur, and this is the domain of the alewife.  Because the browns are more benthic, they are profiting from the gobies. Current reports, it needs to be remembered, are from the period of time when the thermal bar is just breaking up, the Lake is still pretty well mixed thermally, and the salmonids are still inshore picking off post spawn alewife that will soon be offshore.  Lets see what is being eaten in a month or so when the summer pattern has set in (if anyone is catching anything, last year it kind of died once stratification got going (and I am aware that a big pond like LO does not stratify strongly like a smaller lake, but bars and breaks occur locally all summer)).
 
The complete 2015 report is on the DEC site as of the other day, read Brian Weidel's report on the bait.  http://www.dec.ny.gov/doc...marine_pdf/lorpt15.pdf

Thanks for the continued insight and sharing L-13, BTW, they are nice buggers ;)
The data you put up was the 2015 report but I don't think as far as I read the spring 2016 trawl info.. That was the big looming question about whats out there since those harsh winters..
As I put up was the prelim reports of these spring trawls..
Here is the chart that goes with that :
 Best regards,
Steve LaPan, Great Lakes Section Head, NYSDEC
Andy Todd, Manager, Lake Ontario Management Unit, OMNRF

I had to do it this way for some reason to continue..
Jack,
Most Atlantics and small kings are being released. I'd say at a rate of 90 %.. But , many are being dragged along unknowingly, is that release successful  ?  The other factor is , once on a school , they are providing a tug on the line instead of a flat line so what's the successful release rate again  ?  That stuff is not my call to make, I just know there are numbers of 2 year olds around..
 
L-13.
Back to the fishery talk, I have seen pictures this year , you know "photographs & memories" , of Lakers GORGED with alewives, just like we do smelt on the Ice lakes we fish.. While I am so cool jigging a laker , I kinda side with the biZZZ end of things on the Great Lake .. I remember the slots and dragging a boot out there before..
If they are a factor cause to competition with salmon the $$$ fish and decline of a fragile alewives population, why not reduce the stocking there, they are being caught as a "bi-product " from charters anyway .. Rely on natural reproduction system of them (ya know, Lake George is all natural ) rather then fear of a crash from Salmon ??  
Now granted , this is all just talk from a know nothing guy that just fishes for the tug so take this as just discussion ..
I do plan on targeting the "easy" fish , Lake Trout out there this season..
Peace & Tuna
 

Lucky13
1.  No one has mentioned eliminating kings.  The Fish Community Objectives clearly name the king as the primary apex pelagic predator.  From what Tuna posted, "Maintaining the Lake Ontario trophy Chinook salmon fishery depends on having sufficient numbers of alewife to feed them and maintain good Chinook growth. A record‐high year class of alewife was produced in 2012 (the 2012 “year class”), however, reduced survival of the 2012 year class did not increase the adult population as managers expected in 2014 when these fish reached age 2. The two severe winters/cool summers of 2013/2014 and 2014/2015 resulted in very poor 2013 and 2014 alewife year classes, and the 2012 alewife year class likely makes up the majority of the current adult alewife population in Lake Ontario. The Lake Ontario Committee (“LOC”: Steve LaPan representing the NYS Department of Environmental Conservation [NYSDEC] and Andy Todd representing the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry [OMNRF]) is concerned that without young alewife to replace the adults that are eaten, there may not be sufficient alewife numbers to support trophy Chinook salmon in a few years."and "The LOC’s current concerns are not related to adult alewife abundance in 2016; we will not be surprised if fishing is excellent in 2016, and Chinook size is good as well. Our concerns surround the adult alewife spawning population in 2017 and beyond. Since a large portion of the adult alewife population should be composed of fish ages 3 ‐ 5, the LOC expects several years in the immediate future when the size of the alewife population will be greatly reduced. The LOC has asked the Lake Ontario Technical Committee to work together and provide the LOC with an assessment of the relative risks associated with a range of management options this summer."  The range of management options is kind of limited to stocking less of the predators, and since the main predators on alewives are King Salmon and Steelhead (pelagic fish all summer) it is likely that cuts will need to come from those species.  But remember that approximately 50% of the returning kings are wild, and they have no control over that.  2.   "increased invasive ( which is omitted)".  I know I've said this before, but, Alewife is an invasive species.  If this is  reference to gobies, it is known that all the predators consume gobies during periods of time when their temperature preferences overlap like early spring, but as the Lake warms the pelagic predators move out over deep water, the pelagic zone of the lake, while the gobies stay closer to shore and are benthic (at the bottom) in orientation.  The major prey in the pelagic zone is alewife.  Even if there were 10 times the gobies it would not help with the pelagic predators because they do not inhabit the same zone of the lake most of the year.  3.  "The boats marking huge schools of bait." Entirely possible that some boats find large schools, but relative abundance as measured by the trawl surveys says these schools are separated by a lot of water with few bait in it.  And they indicate that they expect a lot of bait this year, it is 2017, 18, 19 where the S hits the F.  I sense that Steve LePan sees maintenance of the current predator numbers as the kind of crapshoot that could leave us with a Lake Huron situation in 2020 or so; that is one weighty gamble for a professional fishery manager to make, as the current talk is that Huron is too far gone to ever recover a salmonid fishery. 4.  If, by eels , Dime is referring to lamprey, the pesticide is calibrated to have minimal effects on other organisms and it is relatively specific to lamprey larvae.  Dead adults is something else I think, and my recollection is that the lampricide is a fall application.  But this is all related to low alewife numbers, and the lampriciding has not effected any of this in the past, and they are not talking about juvenile kings when they quote the 50% natural recruitment numbers, that number is unclipped fish RETURNING TO THE HATCHERY. 5.  The Alewife spawn from late April through May, they should be done by now.  There seems to be a notion, especially among charter captains, that less stocking will mean poorer fishing, but if last years predators are eating this year's stockers, maybe stocking less could lead to better survival and somewhat larger size, which could actually be better fishing than what we had last year.  And this is flexible program, so once the bait fish abundance rises, so would stocking numbers, no one wants a lake full of dead alewife either.   But it is my sense that Steve and Andy are very concerned and they are the "pros from Dover" on this one!

We'll I had to rebump this one to the top. L13, not doubting your knowledge at all, but it seems apparent that the "rumors" that flew around for years about backing down on Chinook may be becoming reality. We will find out soon. Your quoted comment was derived from my comments I made on page 4... I'm just a dumb Fisherbum though...lol

Some numbers being tossed around for king salmon stocking are pretty startling .
They are 6 figure numbers , NOT seven figure

Yes tuna I have heard the same. I guess the rumors that flew around since the Atlantic program were only that though ;)
Now an earlier post of mine in this thread suggested the wild reproduction that has been proven in the recent decades may have put the nail on the coffin for an over abundant Chinook population which we saw peak in 2012... so maybe, just maybe this reduction may contribute towards a healthier stock??? Who knows though... definitely not me, because I'm just a see'er /believer type... but my big question is why increase lakers??? And then throw on top of it the strain of Atlantic that has been showing up mature and able to spawn in recent... then consider federal funding on top of possibilities of international Atlantic salmon federation funding??? It all starts to make sense...

In all honesty??? The oppurtunity to catch wild Atlanticside in the backyard wouldn't be a bad thing in my eyes, but I'm not sure I'm able to deal with politics that may come along with it :/

Good points Andy . I tend to agree on the lake trout , why try to establish them back to historic levels when the salmon are King .
One thing I do know for sure , natural reproduction is FAR cheaper then continuous stocking . So if they keep tossing out those numbers about natural kings , you will see the stocking levels drop .
Me too , seeing is believing .. I'm just not seeing it out there right now though .

Atlantics would be nice but if they become numerous and the word gets out the crowds will come and that will only benefit the business people not those that are looking for a little room to enjoy the fishing.

I saw a picture from Dirty Goose charters with 6 nice kings to win the Lil S R derby.
Looked healthy if not full grown yet.