dpms

psu_fish
Absolutely no reason a 5 year old should be in the woods, with a centerfire rifle, shooting a deer. I do not care how close the adult mentor is sitting next to the kid.

Look up hunting related accidents in states that have no minimum age for hunting. After you do that, look up what age group is most likely to be involved in a hunting related accident. 

 
Ratio between the age groups?  Statics can be made to tell any story you want to present.  It's called "Blowing Chyt Out of Proportion".

I see some parents or dad's as very good responsible teachers and mentors to young children. I see some others as exact opposites.  Problem is the young child can't tell the difference, and with a gun this is a dangerous situation for that unknowing child. An older kid might know or reason to remember gun safety somewhat better.
 
There was a young child shot by accident by his dad at Twig's Gun store in Mercer a few years ago. The father was placing a rifle back in the truck and it went off killing the young boy. Terrible accident , not a hunting accident, but a demonstration of an irresponsible person handling a sporting gun with a child. Who carries loaded rifles in cars especially with children ?  Idiots !  

BeenThereDoneThat. 
Ratio between the age groups?  Statics can be made to tell any story you want to present.  It's called "Blowing Chyt Out of Proportion".

So you don't believe hunting related accident statistics? In other words, it just can't be true that young kids are safe hunters. 

I 10000% believe a 5 year old cannot hold a rifle with the proper technique to humanly harvest a deer. Maybe little Johnny is sitting on his dad’s lap, but little Johnny aint pulling the trigger.

Most kids in kindergarten cannot tie their own shoes, so how do you expect them to shoot a centerfire rifle, and use the correct amount of eye relief in a scope

dpms

BeenThereDoneThat. 
Ratio between the age groups?  Statics can be made to tell any story you want to present.  It's called "Blowing Chyt Out of Proportion".

So you don't believe hunting related accident statistics? In other words, it just can't be true that young kids are safe hunters. 

No Gene that's not what I said at all and just as I thought you might, you're spinning my comment.  No way can a fair comparison of accidents, be made between the numbers of juvenile vs numbers of adult hunters.  Unless of course a person wants to push their agenda then information, which in most cases cannot be substantiated (other than "Survey Says") is tossed at the opposition.  It's called cherry picking information that supports the agenda.
 
In addition, it's not if the child knows "right or wrong" it's the adult I question as knowing "right from wrong" let alone if he/she cares about "right from wrong".
 
Any organization, group or person for that matter,  can hire an outside "consulting firm" to produce the information needed for reports/surveys.  It's like going into a restaurant and ordering what you want to eat.  If the order is not to your expectations you send it back til it is what you want.
 
Truly, I have no problem with anyone at any age wanting to learn hunting.  BUT it "is" the "BS" that is tossed at me by people who's agenda is anything but "about the kids".  Especially the "survey says" BS!!
 
Hope this explains my side because I'm still undecided about "who" is benefiting from "It's about children" and it goes well beyond hunting.
 
Good hunting.

PSU with all do respect, I have witnessed a father talking and teaching his 4 year old daughter gun safety every time her gun is taken from the case.  Then the young lady will, chamber a 22 cal. short and using a rest, sight through her scope and drill a target the size of a one gallon jug, 10 yds away.  You can rest assured dad is directly behind his daughter as she handles the gun, solely on her own.
 
Not disagreeing with questioning  the use of a high powered gun, at much longer ranges, while trying to control the excitement of shooting at game (let alone big game) just letting you know I was surprised as heck, seeing this child using a scope.
 
While on the subject of excitement, I do wonder if younger people do get as excited and experience that same heart pounding sensation as us old duffers?  What a shame if they don't.
 
Good hunting and tight lines. 

BeenThereDoneThat.
Dave, you are the exception rather the rule.  Having read many of your threads, seen many of your pictures and having met you first hand I have to say you should qualify for "father of the year" as well as "poster dad" for "parents being involved".  Unfortunately far toooooo many parents do not exercise the the same quality standards as you and a few other parents.
 
I couldn't have agreed more with your comment, on a recent thread regarding the pressures applied to the young people by their parents and coaches.  Some, are truly trying to get the students to do their best but unfortunately, far too many coaches and parents are about themselves.  Least not forget those who abuse the programs for their own well being.

Dang John, you're gonna make me blush!  haha.  Thanks for the kind words, but I'm pretty sure my kids would be among the first to tell ya that I'm probably not in any danger of winning father of the year.  
 
Anyway, it is a good discussion as it seems to be most every year and it's always good to evaluate your priorities and convictions.  
 
 
 
 

Ha haa Dave, ask the kids when they get older?  Betcha I'm right... as usual. 

BeenThereDoneThat.
No Gene that's not what I said at all and just as I thought you might, you're spinning my comment.  No way can a fair comparison of accidents, be made between the numbers of juvenile vs numbers of adult hunters.  Unless of course a person wants to push their agenda then information, which in most cases cannot be substantiated (other than "Survey Says") is tossed at the opposition.  It's called cherry picking information that supports the agenda.
 

I didn't spin anything. I said look up hunting related accidents in states where there is no minimum age. The information was poured over by our PGC when they first began discussing mentored youth programs. No information was found anywhere that showed a correlation between young hunters and hunting accidents that was proportionally higher than other age groups.  Several studies showed the greatest accident rates(accidents per participant) were among senior hunters. The theory referenced was that they become complacent with tried and true gun handling and safe hunting practices. 
 
I have heard this angle often; "You have to be 16 to drive because kids are not developed enough to safely drive". The problem with that angle is many studies all agree that the younger someone is, the more likely they are to be in a automobile accident. There is no such safety concerns documented for young hunters. 
 

psu_fish
I 10000% believe a 5 year old cannot hold a rifle with the proper technique to humanly harvest a deer. Maybe little Johnny is sitting on his dad’s lap, but little Johnny aint pulling the trigger.

Most kids in kindergarten cannot tie their own shoes, so how do you expect them to shoot a centerfire rifle, and use the correct amount of eye relief in a scope

You would be wrong. 223 and 22/250 are common rounds used by kids for deer and they are quite successful with them. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying all 5 year olds are ready or capable. What I am saying is if they are, let them hunt with supervision of course.