House Bill 747 help!!

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dpms
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2008/07/03 12:53:24 (permalink)

House Bill 747 help!!

Seems that state senator Armstrong has made an ammendment to HB747.  That ammendment strips all powers from deputy WCO's.

It just so happens that the senators son was involved in an incident with a DWCO and plead guilty to the charges. 

An email blitz is the order of the day to let our representatives know we are against the ammended HB747.  This a significant abuse of power that, if passed, will severly limit the enforcement of the game laws.

Thank you.
#1

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    griffon
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    RE: House Bill 747 help!! 2008/07/03 13:45:21 (permalink)
    I will be interested in the response/support you get to this.  I can honestly say that I have never met a DWCO in the woods (at least not to the point that one has identified themselves as such).  However, I have heard a ton of comments from landowners (both in SWPA and NCPA) and fellow sportsmen regarding DWCO's and I cannot remember ever hearing a single positive comment. 
    post edited by griffon - 2008/07/03 13:50:18
    #2
    S-10
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    RE: House Bill 747 help!! 2008/07/03 14:12:43 (permalink)
    I just read the admendment and it appears to say that they can't write ciations or accept acknowledgement of guilt but must turn it over to a WCO. In the next line it appears to say all retired law enforcement officers have the powers of a deputy including writing citations or acknowledgements of guilt. I'am confused. I will say this to DPMS--If all DWCO's were like the one who you thought was getting a bad rap as a WCO I wouldn't want them even wearing the uniform. I read that post on the other site and you folks are wrong, wrong, wrong for supporting him. Folks like him are one of the reasons the PGC is getting a reputation as being out of control. BTW- Neither myself or any family member has had any dealing with him.
    #3
    dpms
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    RE: House Bill 747 help!! 2008/07/03 15:02:19 (permalink)
    S-10,
     
    Many, myself included had issues with the broad brush that WCO's were painted with.  An out of control rogue agency with little oversight.  That is how the story was presented.
     
    I do not doubt that Bimber is a bad apple from the reports I have seen, but in this case he was just enforcing the laws as they exist. 
     
    Griffon,
     
    I would be a little shocked if you would thought that this ammendement is a good idea.  The PGC is stapped and thier are remaining WCO vacancies.  Deputies are an essential part of LE and sure there may be some bad ones but one thing we do not need is a shortage of officers that can enforce the game laws.
     
     
    #4
    spoonchucker
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    RE: House Bill 747 help!! 2008/07/03 15:12:30 (permalink)
    Griif,
     
    I've run into numerous WCO's, and DWCO's, both game, and fish, without a single negative encounter.
     
    S-10
     
    So you're saying that rather than identify, and remove the bad apples, throw out the bushel? DWCO's recieve the same training, and qualifications as WCO's. The only major difference being that deputies work part time, at a lower cost to their respective agencies. There is no reason to limit their authority. In fact it would be easier to weed out bad apples from the deputy ranks, than from the fulltime officer ranks.

    Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

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    The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

    GL
    #5
    S-10
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    RE: House Bill 747 help!! 2008/07/03 15:22:54 (permalink)
    DPMS--FYI--I knew the person in question before he was a DWCO and listened in on some of his stories as he told them after becoming one and also other stories  that were told by folks I knew he harrassed. I also hunted in some of the same places as him and saw how he reacted to some folks who
    bear hunted near his favorite spot when he was a DWCO. He was not a shining example for the PGC and his award brought many negative comments around Warren County as to the type people the PGC thought highly of. BTW- I am still confused about this admendment and what exactly it means.
    #6
    S-10
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    RE: House Bill 747 help!! 2008/07/03 15:36:53 (permalink)
    Spoon--reread my post--Where did I ever say that. I talked about one unnamed individual and The PGC's support of him. I have had both positive and negative experiences with both DWCO's and WCO's and have presently and have had in the past, several of both as friends. Read before you spin.
    #7
    griffon
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    RE: House Bill 747 help!! 2008/07/03 15:40:14 (permalink)
    dpms-  I will research the issue this weekend and try to develop a better opinion.  I am certainly not for any bill that restricts wildlife law enforcement as anybody will attest to.  I to looked on the other site and it appears that most sportsmen over there are not in favor of the bill.  Those who are for it seem to have personal grudges against DWCO's or have been in circles where others have held grudges.  I do think that the DWCO is a good program (perhaps invaluable), but almost every account on the other site seems to have stated that the criticisms are justified and have been brought on as a result of some (not all) DWCO inappropriate actions. 
     
    I would be interested in seeing some statistical data regarding the job they do.  Stats such as # of convictions vs. dismissals when compared to other law enforcement agencies (even vs. WCO's).  The amount of court costs sewn up on dismissals comparitively.  I would also like to see the number of complaints filed against DWCO's vs. WCO's by sportsmen and landowners.   What kind of training do DWCO's receive vs. WCO's?  Is there a minimum standard of competency to be a DWCO vs. that of a WCO.  In many states, becoming a WCO requires a two year college degree at minimum (not sure about PA) 
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    spoonchucker
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    RE: House Bill 747 help!! 2008/07/03 15:58:30 (permalink)
    S-10,
     
    Your post just rang with a "one bad apple, spoils the bunch" tone to me. Apparently I heard a song that you weren't playing. I apologize.

    Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

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    The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

    GL
    #9
    S-10
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    RE: House Bill 747 help!! 2008/07/03 16:01:51 (permalink)
    Accepted.
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    dpms
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    RE: House Bill 747 help!! 2008/07/03 16:48:00 (permalink)
    Griffon,
     
    There are bad apples but enforcement is needed in a cash strapped agency.  You and I agree on that.  Many will say that DWCO abuse thier powers and have attitudes or egos.  Some do and most don't.  Same could be said for WCO's.
     
    I once had a bad experience myself but I refuse to paint an agency or it's officers with a broad brush.  Some will,based off a negative experience.
     
    This ammendment is scary.  Especially the circumstances behind it with the senators son's conviction.
    #11
    dpms
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    RE: House Bill 747 help!! 2008/07/03 19:16:05 (permalink)
    Just got word that this bill is dead.  It was killed quickly I am told because of the overwhelming response by caring sportsman in this state that flooded the house with emails and phone calls against this ammendment that would have affected us all.
     
    Thanks to all that contacted the legislators.
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    S-10
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    RE: House Bill 747 help!! 2008/07/05 19:54:00 (permalink)
    DPMS-- What's the whole story on the Senators son's run in with the DWCO. There was an article on it in the paper yesterday and there was no mention of any game law violation. It sounds more like a traffic violation with some add on's. Just wondering why a DWCO was involved to begin with.
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    griffon
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    RE: House Bill 747 help!! 2008/07/05 21:30:54 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: dpms

    Just got word that this bill is dead.  It was killed quickly I am told because of the overwhelming response by caring sportsman in this state that flooded the house with emails and phone calls against this ammendment that would have affected us all.

    Thanks to all that contacted the legislators.

     
    dpms- Thanks for your work on this and all other fellow sportsmen that got involved.  Obviously this was a bill that needed to be repealed as it served no good purpose for anyone. 
     
    FYI- I still would like to see some numbers as I mentioned earlier.  I have looked and they are difficult to come by.
     
     
    #14
    dpms
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    RE: House Bill 747 help!! 2008/07/06 10:25:03 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: S-10

    DPMS-- What's the whole story on the Senators son's run in with the DWCO. There was an article on it in the paper yesterday and there was no mention of any game law violation. It sounds more like a traffic violation with some add on's. Just wondering why a DWCO was involved to begin with.

     
    That is a good question.  All I can find and all that is willing to be told is the the public record docket.  Don't know why a DWCO became involved.  I would love to know the whole story too.  With the press this is getting I would have assumed that more details would have surfaced but nada so far.
    #15
    Over the Hill
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    RE: House Bill 747 help!! 2008/07/07 16:19:40 (permalink)
    http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/224018
     
    Here's some info on the case. Very interesting.

    OVER THE HILL

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    S-10
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    RE: House Bill 747 help!! 2008/07/07 20:48:27 (permalink)
    That is a bit unusual case. Not sure what to make of it.
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