High court upholds 2nd ammendment

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dpms
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2008/06/26 11:33:53 (permalink)

High court upholds 2nd ammendment

This is big and sets precedent for future suppression of our rights. This is the DC gun law making ownership of pistols illegal.  Great news!!!

Notice the word "reasonable" gun laws in the arguements of those that are for restricting our rights.

Here is the link.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/26/scotus.guns/index.html
 
You can see where the more liberal judges stand on the issue of "reasonable" and "common sense" restrcitions.  Appointments to the high court are extremely important.  The next 4-6 years could see 2-3 appointments for the next president.
post edited by dpms - 2008/06/26 11:48:20
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    SilverKype
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/26 12:43:26 (permalink)
    Do you want to start again dpms?

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    #2
    dpms
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/26 12:53:43 (permalink)
    Nope.  I would hope that you would agree this is a good thing.  Also just pointing out, as I had predicted, how certain verbage is dangerous to our rights.
    post edited by dpms - 2008/06/26 12:54:08
    #3
    SilverKype
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/26 13:03:21 (permalink)
    If you think there's a possibility that I think this is a bad thing, there is nothing else to say. 
     
     

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    #4
    spoonchucker
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/26 17:11:41 (permalink)
    dpms,

    Did you READ the courts opinion, or just the headline? Justice Scalia ( as CONSERVATIVE as they come ), wrote the majority opinion. In it HE points out that this right IS, IS I repeat IS subject to "reasonable" restrictions.
     
    I would not be concerned about the close vote, or the future make up of the court. Precendents stand in all but the most extreme cases. The court very seldom agrees to even HEAR challenges to precedents, let alone overturns them. Even those who dissented in this case would be very unlikely to vote to hear a challenge to it, now that it has been set.
    post edited by spoonchucker - 2008/06/26 17:32:21

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    #5
    dpms
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/26 18:09:50 (permalink)
    I did not read the whole opinion but I did read what you have stated and I am disappointed in Scalias statement. 
     
    The liberal left did jump all over that saying that they also agree with Scalia's statement thinking that that will fool some of us into thinking that the liberal left is with us in this battle.  I was not fooled and I hope that you were not either.
     
    A spokesman for Obama has already stated that Obama agrees with the high court ruling for "reasonable" restrictions.  He is as anti-gun as one could get and it is a pathetic statement to make when this decision was clearly a victory for gun rights.
     
    I believe that the word "reasonable" refers to existing laws on the books.
     
    In fact, the NRA has already said that it will initiate challenges in other cities with laws against gun ownership.  Guess where they are starting?  Illinois!!  Go figure that many cities in Illinois outlaw the ownership of handguns.
     
    As far as the makeup of the courts.  While you are correct about this type of case going before them again, it does show the court is very split and one appointment can sway future decisions immensely so I am concerned about the future makeup if you believe in conservative values and what the founding fathers envisioned when they wrote the constitution.
    #6
    spoonchucker
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/26 18:31:02 (permalink)
    "and I am disappointed in Scalias statement."
     
    Why so? Do you really believe in "any gun, any where, any time"? Do you believe in the rights of criminals, or those mentally incapable of sound judgement, to own guns? How about carrying guns into a court house? Know how many previously, and normally "law abiding" citizens have wreaked havoc in such places?
     
    "In fact, the NRA has already said that it will initiate challenges in other cities with laws against gun ownership."
     
    Yes, and they will have valid arguements, and be successful in many cases. In many others they will not. You have never heard me suggest that ALL existting gun laws were proper.
     
    "A spokesman for Obama has already stated that Obama agrees with the high court ruling for "reasonable" restrictions."
     
    He ALSO stated, that he agrees with the protection of gun ownership for sport, and self defense. 
     
    "Guess where they are starting?  Illinois!!  Go figure that many cities in Illinois outlaw the ownership of handguns."
     
    What does that have to do with Obama? He didn't write, or vote on local ordinances. He was a STATE, and now federal legislator. 
     
    "While you are correct about this type of case going before them again, it does show the court is very split and one appointment can sway future decisions immensely "
     
    The court has been generally split, throughout history, and in my opinion for the better. It keeps us from sliding to EITHER extreme.

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    #7
    dpms
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/26 18:38:44 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: spoonchucker

    "and I am disappointed in Scalias statement."

    Why so?


     
    Because if you have followed my posts in the past, which I know you have, it proves my point about how dangerous this language is to our rights.
     
    The most anti-gun groups and the most liberal politicians have stated today that they agree with the high courts decision for "reasonable" gun laws.  They jumped all over it.
     
    Anyone with a pea between thier ears knows what these groups are trying to do to spin this decision to gather support for thier anti-gun cause.
     
     
    #8
    spoonchucker
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/26 19:01:04 (permalink)
    And the NRA has stated it is going to start challenging laws, all over the nation. What's your point? No laws of any kind? The decision takes away the "slippery slope" you fear so much.
     
    "Anyone with a pea between thier ears knows what these groups are trying to do to spin this decision to gather support for thier anti-gun cause."
     
    And any one with a "pea between their ears", knows the other side will use it to promote their " any gun, any time, any where. " , no restrictions , or responsibilities of any kind, cause as well. Neither side will find themselves particularlly successful.  
     
    It was probabley THE best ruling, and majority opinion that could come from the court. And reached BEYOND what most conservatives expected.


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    #9
    S-10
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/26 19:17:12 (permalink)
    The basic right has now been established but now the battle begins over reasonable restrictions. The NRA will be fighting to loosen up some of the over 24,000 gun laws now on the books and the anti gun crowd will be fighting to add more "reasonable" laws to the 24,000 already on the books.
    #10
    dpms
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/26 19:55:32 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: spoonchucker

    And any one with a "pea between their ears", knows the other side will use it to promote their " any gun, any time, any where. " , no restrictions , or responsibilities of any kind, cause as well.


     
    Wrong again.  The pro-gun groups will use this decision to overturn any current laws that prevent law abiding citizens from owning guns.  There are plenty of restrictions or responsibilities that exist that will not be challenged.
     
     
    #11
    leadmen
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/26 20:43:02 (permalink)
    just think of it this way some assss hole that has no common scence god give a horse or a anmial will misconstrue this rueling and say well no one needs a gun well it takes a sherif about a 1 1/2 to get to my house and at that time my house can be burned my farm anmials shot dog ran over and my fam in the trunk of a car speeding down the road and me dieing of lead poisen so ill ask anyone to look me in the eye and change my mind naaaa not going to happen help youself to protect youself and then help others dont ripp our rights away
    #12
    spoonchucker
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/26 22:41:25 (permalink)
    "just think of it this way some assss hole that has no common scence god give a horse or a anmial will misconstrue this rueling and say well no one needs a gun"
     
    No, read it, and you will see that they CAN'T.  

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    #13
    spoonchucker
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/26 22:44:58 (permalink)
    "Wrong again.  The pro-gun groups will use this decision to overturn any current laws that prevent law abiding citizens from owning guns."
     
    Responsible pro-gun groups yes, but not all. If you can not admit that there ARE some groups, and SOME segements of the NRA, that oppose ANY restriction whatsoever. Then you are decieving yourself, or TRYING to decieve us. 

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    #14
    S-10
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/26 23:00:02 (permalink)
    Why is it that liberals always try to link the NRA to stopping so called sensible gun laws. After over 24,000 so called sensible gun laws don't you think they should have got it right by now? At what point does it become nothing more than harassment of gun owners? Here is the Brady handgun banners president on the decision-----While we strongly disagree with the Superme courts decision, our fight to enact sensible gun laws will be undimished. They even have a gun law defense fund set for you to donate to to help them undermine the decision. My dollars will go to the NRA. They don't care if you are Rep or Dem, they only care about your stance on the gun rights of honest citizens.
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    dpms
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/27 07:41:42 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: spoonchucker


    Responsible pro-gun groups yes, but not all. If you can not admit that there ARE some groups, and SOME segements of the NRA, that oppose ANY restriction whatsoever. Then you are decieving yourself, or TRYING to decieve us. 

     
    The NRA has it's faults.  I will be the first to admit it.  I believe that most of the current gun laws are fine as they are.  The gun laws that I do not agree with will soon be overturned.
     
    Am I on the extreme right when it comes to guns.  No, some of the current restrictions are in place for a reason and I agree with them.
    #16
    dpms
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/27 07:48:39 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: S-10

     Here is the Brady handgun banners president on the decision-----While we strongly disagree with the Superme courts decision, our fight to enact sensible gun laws will be undimished.

     
    There you go again for those that cannot understand the battle to take away our rights.  Notice the word "sensible".  The Brady organization wants to take away your right to own handguns and they sell it with words like "sensible" and "common sense".
     
    As S-10 has said, the 24,000 on the books are not enough I guess.  Those that are for sensible gun laws(besides the ones that already exist) and say they support our rights are ignorant of the fight that we are currently in.
    #17
    spoonchucker
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/27 13:41:21 (permalink)
    "Am I on the extreme right when it comes to guns.  No, some of the current restrictions are in place for a reason and I agree with them."
     
    S-10,
     
    You keep pointing to 24.000 laws. That high number, comes by breaking it down to EVERY single state, or local ordinance. In other words numerous redundancies. A hundred local laws saying the same thing as opposed top one state, or federal law. There are countless more laws regarding traffic. In fact if you break it down in this manner, there are probabley 50,000 parking laws. 
     
    I'll agree that many are poorly written, with many other written to correct flaws in pervious law, rather than amend them. I'll agree as well that many others are flat out wrong. I my opinion, with the possible exception of "illegal discharge", firearms law, registration, or licensing should be restricted to the state, and federal level.
     
    I also believe this ruling clarifies, the limits for both sides, and will/can be the catalyst for straightening this mess out,  it will probabbley take a while though ( neither side gives up easily ). As with everything, neither side will be completely happy, and neither will get all that they WANT. But in the end, I believe both will get what they NEED.

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    #18
    dpms
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/27 13:48:55 (permalink)
    Something else to ponder.  If John Kerry was our president, this gun law would have been upheld and it would remain illegal to own handguns in certain cities and you can bet that many other cities with liberal gun control mayors would be scrambling to enact thier own laws to restrict our rights.
     
    This decision was huge. 
    #19
    spoonchucker
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/27 14:14:14 (permalink)
    You can't be certain of that. President are often very suprised by the votes of their appointees. Plus I doubt, that with a republican senate, he would, or could, have appointed a particularlly liberal judge.

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    #20
    Over the Hill
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/27 14:52:46 (permalink)
    Spoon, I don't believe it will ever end with "what they need". NRA and HCI are proffesional lobbiest. If they got there way, they would be out of a job... They all use fear and manipulated statistics to get their support. Wonder what their saleries are?
     
    As far as appointing judges, how many people on this board REALLY take the time to learn about the candidates for our judges here in PA? I think our state and local judges effect us more on a day to day basis.
     
    Many good points discussed here on this topic.

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    leadmen
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/28 07:24:44 (permalink)
    a hanful of laws for guns can take care of it all but why 24000 a little overdoing it give you a gun go to war kill peeps come home and no more gun for you when you get home hows that look do as i say not as i do write bad checks if your in congress its ok a mother of 4 on her last dime does its jail time hang her high wow now thats fair lets make these judges account for all of there votes ... the laws will be more scenseable not head stuck in the sand up up a ass
    #22
    eyesandgillz
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/29 13:57:47 (permalink)
    Did anyone else read the blurb in one of the articles relating to this about a reporting once asking George Buh #1 what his biggest mistake during his presidency was and he stated , "Souter!"  Yep, presidents don't know how their appointments are going to vote and he would gladly take this one back.
     
    Anyways, looking forward to seeing the gun ban ordinances going down in a ball of flames finally.  But, I also agree with "reasonable" restrictions such as violent felons and mentally ill people not being able to own firearms.  As has been stated, the fight to define "reasonable" has only begun.
    #23
    gobyking
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/30 04:43:33 (permalink)
    Spoon is the lone spinner on this thread,congrats to you.You believe your own BS.You think the 5-4 win was a good thing for America,wow.Most people(90% of people away from your liberal thinking)don't have a problem with it except that it was TOO CLOSE OF A VOTE,should have been much more one-sided.The original rights of Americans was to defend the country against a tyranny,thus preventing a dictatorship.You,however,love his concept and wish to be a subject of the crown,any crown.What is wrong with you?Do you think that just because you can type really well that you are better than everyone else and should tell them what to do?
     
     
    Again,I AM A LIBERTARIAN.
     
    Why is it wrong that the vote was 5-4?IT IS CLEARLY WRONG.This country was built on people who had guns handy and lived off them.You want to take them away in bits and pieces.In any term,nuff said....spin away.
     
    #24
    spoonchucker
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/30 14:13:49 (permalink)
    Goby,
     
    I don't think for a second, that I'm "better" than you, or anyone else. I DO suspect that I have a better understanding of HOW our system works ( and it DID work in this case ), and WHY it works that way, as well as a greater belief IN our system than yoyu appear to have.
     
    I believe strongly in your ( and any law abiding citizens ) right to own firearms. You can not point to ANYWHERE, where I have stated otherwise. I own a few myself.
     
    I also believe in your right to do anything you please. PROVIDED that it does not jeopardize the welfare ( physical, or financial ) of me, or my family, or our ability to exercise OUR rights.
     
    Take a GOOD look at the "patriot" act. Those black helicopters are just as likely to come from the right, as the left.

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    #25
    spoonchucker
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/30 16:54:22 (permalink)
    Another thing Goby,
     
    Be careful of the words you use. IF as you suggest, the 2nd amendment was intended for the sole purpose of defending against tytranny. Then the arguement that it was limited to membership in a militia, might very well also have held up. This fortunately was not the case. The court looks beyond just the wording, in applying the constitution. It looks to other writings of the authors, to determine the reasoning, behind the words, and the intent of the authors. The majority acknowledged doing so in this case, in their written opinion. Pretty good that they did, isn't it? 

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    #26
    CATMAN610
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/06/30 18:08:28 (permalink)
    Maybe more imprtant than the guns,,if Kerry would have been elected,,,,maybe Iraq wouldn't be such a mess either,,or better yet if Al Gore had got the votes counted right,,the Iraq war might not excist.
     
    better days ahead
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    leadmen
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/07/01 09:06:39 (permalink)
    you got a point spoon i mean when that was written we or they worried of the britts coming back and defending there land
    #28
    dpms
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/07/01 09:21:39 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: CATMAN610

    better days ahead

     
    For:
    #29
    CATMAN610
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    RE: High court upholds 2nd ammendment 2008/07/01 15:56:05 (permalink)
    he blew his load,,,now he's hiding in a cave, probably not sleeping nearly as good as I do at night.
    #30
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