Clover food plots

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MuskyMastr
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/04 13:55:11 (permalink)
 

If I (me), plant a food plot, in which a deer changes its pattern because of ME, I think I'd feel a little less of an accomplishment of me taking it.  If I'm hunting a clearcut edge (which I do all the time), I'm still adapting to what the deer is doing.  If I was the one that created that clearcut, they they'd be adapting to me.  However, I did not. 
 
So then SK, by your logic, if someone else planted the food plot; it would be ok for you to hunt over it.
 
 

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SilverKype
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/04 15:02:37 (permalink)
I see how you can see that MM.  I haven't ever hunted over or near a food plot.  It's not as if it's "okay" or not okay for me to.  You're making it sound like it's right or wrong thing to do.  I don't think of it like that, never said that, but my personal sense of accomplishment may be lesser because of it, whether it was created by me or not.  Whoever put it there, the intentions are the same.  Adapt the deer to get them underneath you.  This isn't the case when the state creates a clearcut.  I guess it matters what depth of sematics you want to look at it through. 
 
That's why I've never hunted with an outfitter in the midwest.  Can't see spending that type of money for someone to put me on deer, that are adapted on the outfitters terms.  Is it worth "horns?"   They'd probably shrink for me.   Now, an outfitter with ground not babysitting me?  You bet ya!!  The hunting would start Loooong before I got there.  I'd get a sense of accomplishment without a harvest.

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#32
MuskyMastr
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/04 19:00:05 (permalink)
I guess it kind of depends on how you see food plots as well.  I agree that I would not really enjoy hunting one of those ranch houses on tv.  But I think some people see food plots differently.
 
Where I hunt in McKean County, I plant food plots to help get more deer through the winter, hence the use of forage like brassicas that stay longer into the winter.  I have actually found that here in Lawrence county, food plots are much less productive during archery season because of the huge amout of agriculture.  These deer can care less about something I can plant when there is an 800 acre soybean field a couple of hundred yards away.  Where I find them particularly effective is in providing high quality forage during the early stages of antler develoment and late in the winter when other food is scarce.  I guess I see them more as away to develop a better hunting as opposed to trying to change patterns.

Better too far back, than too far forward.
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SilverKype
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/05 07:57:51 (permalink)
Theres no doubt they help deer and other wildlife.   The difference between us is that you see it as developing better hunting.  This is where I see altering patterns, while it may increase deer sightings and/or harvest, as not as good hunting for me.  I see everything under the deer's terms as better hunting.  I guess it's just a matter of what you see hunting as, as compared to what I do.  Now, if I owned a bunch property of property where the surrounding neighbors were shooting the first thing that came by, and I'm looking for older deer, I'd alter anything and everything on my property to keep them there.  I'd have a choice to make.  Be content with young deer, or keep the deer on my property to get some age on them.
 
 

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#34
S-10
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/05 08:28:36 (permalink)
Question for you guys who plant the clover---do you see a steady year round use or does the use increase a lot after a couple of hard frosts in the fall?
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/05 23:30:25 (permalink)
Dang.. I have to agree with S-10 about something dealing with deer .... what's this world coming to ???  LOL
 
Planting something to "attract/benefit" deer as the #1 reason for planting it is not the same as a farmer's field or the natural reproduction of a forest... a farmer plants crops and the forest re-produces by seeds, acorn, nuts etc... neither has deer as  reason for doing what they do...
 
I wish I had the space to plant food plots.. I too love watching deer... I could NEVER EVER shoot one at or near the food plot though.... that's deer shooting NOT deer hunting...
 
When I hear of folks taking a deer near "their food plot" it does NOTHING for me... I just kind of say oh yeah... how big etc means NOTHING...
 
that's easy deer hunting...
 
I  guess that's why I LOVE the current situation with our deer herd.....
 
it's back to when I start deer hunting 50 years ago...
 
HUNTING for deer..... not shooting deer...
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SilverKype
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/06 08:02:00 (permalink)
I could shoot a deer in a food plot or near one.  It'd just feel like a bit less of an accomplishment.  Sorta like shooting a deer with a rifle compared to a bow.  Or catching a huge large trout on a dry compared to a nymph.   I certainly don't see it as cheating, just probably less enjoyable.  One thing that fires me up on TV shows is where the show is so much about antlers (and what produces big ones), that it disregards the hunt, the doe, and education.  There's a few out there that you don't learn a thing, just see big antlers.  Bugs me.  I've given up on a few shows!!  I like D & D hunting. 

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#37
Dr. Trout
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/06 08:15:53 (permalink)
I have to agree silver... I stopped watching and buying those shows many years ago... not what  I call hunting at all... and I certainly would not call those type places "free roaming" and I could never see me hunting at one of those places... same for fishing with me...

I want to take on the challenge one on one.. no need for a guide or other help...

the thrill is always knowing I took on the quarry one on one and was successful... and I am not totally rejected if the quarry wins  sometimes

the thrill is in the quest not the harvest for me....

and using my knowledge of deer, fish, and other wildlife I am usually successful taking on that challenge... ONE ON ONE ... that's what I call SPORT

post edited by Dr. Trout - 2008/06/06 08:17:37
#38
S-10
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/06 08:44:04 (permalink)
You guys are being to hard on the tv hunters. You will have to admit it takes a lot of skill to be able to kill the buck without hitting one of the legs on the tripod feeder.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/06 21:52:03 (permalink)
Here are a couple  of my all time favorites......
 
 
1... Monster Bucks with Bill Jordan.... the guy shoots the buck near the front left shoulder..... they even show it 3 times in SLOW motion.... then when they FIND the deer the arrow is stuck in the right shoulder :)
 
2... Tracey Bird (country singer) shoots a buck as it is "dipping" itself in a stream to cool off...WITH A RIFLE.. the deer sinks and they have to get wet retreiving the deer..... REAL sportsmanship there.....
 
3... Favorite REAL story from a guy who worked at one of these ranches.... Daryl Lamonaca ( NFL QB) hunts for a week in Texas and gets no deer... so the owner goes to a freezer and gets one out to "stage" a hunt with a successful harvest for the QB.....
 
TOO HARD..... I don't think so..
 
these shows have done more to ruin the true sport of deer hunting and the mind set of many deer hunters than the USP or any antis have ever done......
 
 
 
 
#40
bingsbaits
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/07 06:51:19 (permalink)
Guess a guy is going to have to plant plots if he wants to supplement feed..I just bought another 100#s of corn and it was $13.50.. Two years ago it was $7.00.

"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
 
 


#41
S-10
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/07 08:35:43 (permalink)
Don't count on that bings--have you priced fertlizer yet? You think corn is bad.
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treesparrow
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/07 22:19:09 (permalink)
I have been lucky in life in that I own and manage lots of acreage. I am a forester and manipulate all my properties and properties of others. I have allways opened the canapy around apple trees, seeded skid roads and landings with the best forage that I felt would grow under the conditions present. I have spent lots of money on lime and fertilizer also for the plantings and apple trees. I have left most all Hickory because I love Squirels, and most healthy White Oaks. In all the acreage that I manage  I take great pride in knowing that I have altered or swayed the herbacious growth on nearly every acre. I love to roam the big woods trying to outwit or luck into a nice buck,and have many times. That is a very special hunt for me,and I have loped along many a ridge in Cameron Potter Clinton Clearfield etc counties. However shooting a buck eating apples off a tree I released, fertilized and limed several years prior, brings its own satisfaction. Just as listening to friends tell there story of harvesting game out of the whiteoaks down the pipeline gives me pleasure. I truely get MORE enjoyment from attemting to manage property for multiple use, with a big emphasis on game, than I do pulling the triger.
 
 
 
 
 
#43
Noplacelikehome
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/08 07:12:08 (permalink)
Are we forgetting that deer taste GOOD!!
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bingsbaits
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/08 07:17:10 (permalink)
Tree got a question for you. Asked this of one of forecons foresters and he didn't like the idea.
 
Could you reseed your skid trails with a very desirable plant for the deer??
 
Would the available food take the pressure off the new growth and give the deer something to eat other than little trees??
 
Or would it draw more deer to the area because of the good feed and thereby cause heavier browsing on the new trees because of more deer in the area??

"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
 
 


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treesparrow
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/08 10:40:47 (permalink)
Bingsbaits,  I'm sure any food source would help curb their apetite and creating a food source where food is sarce would certainly draw more impact on that area.That certainly is a conflicting statement .I have mentioned on this site before a timber tract I own with my family in Elk County near Clarington on the Clarion River. That particular property has only Black Birch, White Pine, and now just moving in STriped Maple regrowth. I watched a huge mast of Oak that was snow covered and sprouted the next year get completly eaten off the whole hillside. The only seedlings that made it another year were the ones hiden and protected by tops. The next winter they were all eaten. It is not that there is a large deer population there, its the fact that other than mast there is no browse in the mature Nat. Forest surounding us .
   We planted a mix of seed heavy in treefoil on the landing areas and skid trails,that was eaten off to the ground that fall. It has continued to grow and be eaten off every year since. I doubt that that little bit of grass (less than an acre) influenced the impact of regrowth on that particular tract.
    I have land also in Venango, Clarion, Butler,and Mercer Counties and have acceptable reproduction in those areas. I am sure that the species profile has been affected by whitetails in those areas also.
    I have a property in Venango in which the dry ridge has a large and beautiful run of Ladyslippers that may not survive the assault that the deer have been putting on them. They eat them to the ground. How many wild flowers are we missing from the forests allready due to whitetails?
    One thing I do know is that you will never have a healthy deer herd in a contious canopy mature forest. It is not a Whitetails habitat, they need transitional habitat and a mixture of mature mast trees helps them also. They are adaptable and mans gardens will do.
    We all want to hunt like the Benoint's and track down our Trophy in unspoiled widerness but we live and hunt in Pa. and its all altered. Even the Benoit's take advantage of clearcuts, and if I recall corectly  the Native Americans burnt areas to improve the hunting.
#46
MuskyMastr
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RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/17 00:50:47 (permalink)
One of our biggest problems had been fire suppression.  A little fire would go a long way as far as helping our soils out in the north central areas.  I agree 100% with the mature canopy being poor habitat.  Pole timber is even worse.  Some companies are seeding thier skidder trails with wildlife mix, as are some gas & oil companies.
 
One problem with that is that skidder trails typically end up being wet areas that require a wetland type mix which is not often what is used, so it does not grow well and what does, gets gobbled up.

Better too far back, than too far forward.
#47
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