Clover food plots

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wallyeye
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2008/05/05 12:40:42 (permalink)

Clover food plots

Hey guys just getting ready to put in the food plots for the spring.. im kinda undecided on what to put in? I planted corn last year and it did real well.. But the deer never came out to the corn feild till after dark.. will a clover feild produce more deer trafic than a corn feild?? Im sure it depends on what time of the year the deer will go to different food sources just would like to hear your opinins on what you guys plant?
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    Stealth Archer
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/05 13:00:15 (permalink)
    I would recommend planting the clover as opposed to corn. Also maybe throw in some soygum, sugarbeets, and turnips. This is what I have been planting for the past 5 years and it has proven to work very well. You can also supplement your corn by using feeder(s). It's a good way to get an indication of what you have in the area using trail cams. With the mix I plant every year the deer seem to come into the plots about the same time every day. Usually from 2pm to dark is when I observe the most traffic. I'm not sure how much the location would have to do with the timing. My food plots are pretty deep in the woods built in clearings that we had created for the purpose. That's just my opinion.
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    MuskyMastr
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/05 13:31:37 (permalink)
    The clovers are good just check the production.  Some produce little for the first year but then come on strong in the second year and for years after that.  Some are extremely strong the first year and not so good after that.  It is good to mix the two to produce a nice plot.  Stealth had a good suggestion on the turnips as well.  Any brassicas will stay long into the winter and feed well into february. 
     
    I try to plan my plots based on peak production times and then have my mix staggered to provide food at all times with my peak attractor coming in during archery.  I don't like the premix stuff.  I buy at agway and mix my own.....

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
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    EagleCrg
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/07 01:32:18 (permalink)
    If you guys spent half the time learning how to hunt as you do planting bait you wouldn't need the food plots.
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    MuskyMastr
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/07 12:24:01 (permalink)
    EagleCrg,
    Have you ever shot a deer that was feeding on acorns?  How bout Apples?  How about in a stand of cherries or beeches?  If not fine then chastize me, if so, then be quiet.  When you have killed as many bucks as I have, maybe you can start telling me how I need to learn to hunt.

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
    #5
    Stealth Archer
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/07 13:15:32 (permalink)
    EagleCrg,
     
         This has nothing to do with baiting deer. Sometimes I think ppl need to think before they speak. This is about taking care of your deer herd. Would you like to know what else I do. Well let me tell you. In the midst of winter when the snow is deep and the weather is bad I load up tons of corn and straw to take up and put under awnings to feed the deer. Now would you consider that baiting, or having compassion for the animals. For me it's not all about hunting I truly just enjoy spending time outdoors. Yes having food plots may lend an advantage when hunting, but that is not what it is about. As Musky said chances are you have shot a deer that was either feeding on, or in the area of the things he mentioned. I think you need to learn to do more than just hunt.
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    SilverKype
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/07 15:05:07 (permalink)
    Interesting.
     
    Each of us have a personal means to what hunting stands for, how we choose to do it, and what type of gratification we are after.
     
    For myself:  It's about adapting to the deer and what nature has to offer, not making the deer adapt to me.  <<  That's exactly what plotting does, it makes (or attempts to make) the deer adapt to you.  Like it or not, legal or not, purist/naturalist or not, that's a fact.  Hunting deer over the dropping of acorns is far different than planting clover and hunting over it.  I'm not going to go as far as saying plotting is 100% baiting, or that it is wrong, but it's different than me walking miles to a favorite spot in the forest.  Do not tell me otherwise.  I can tell you with absolute certainty, taking a deer from a plot would be less gratifiying for me.  If plotting is about the deer, would do it if you didn't hunt?  Do you plant and NOT hunt near the plots or attempt to intercept the deer when they are heading to/from there?  We know the answers to those questions.
     
    walleye --- WHAT you plant probably will not affect WHEN they come to feed.  If they are not coming out until after dark, they likely got quite a trip to get there, or they're being pressured.

    My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
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    griffon
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/07 15:16:27 (permalink)
    Agreed 100%.  To each his own, but I would rather do it as Kype would, on the animal's terms not my own. 
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    Carpet Bagger
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/07 16:54:32 (permalink)
    Kype i know what you are saying and i think you are absolutly right.  However most hunters are some of the most influential people i know in providing a thriving habitat for deer survival.  Most hunters want to see big populations of animals with large trophy racks.  In a sense, most people wouldnt ever think about feeding deer if they were not hunters who enjoyed taking a deer.
     
    My mother hates deer, they beat up her bushes and plants.  The last thing on her mind would be drawing any attention to her property to attract deer or any wildlife for that matter.
     
    You techincally can only take one mature deer per year legally.  Anyone who takes the time to plant their own land and gives to the animals on it I doubt is going to****the land of all the mature bucks.  Yes it is very rewarding to take a deer from its "natural" environment, but by planting some food for them ensures that you will continue to see a very healthy and populated deer herd.
     
    Also not everyone who plants hunts it.  You can hunt the area around an food plot or going into it and be very successful as well.  While a food plot might be a good place to take an animal it is giving alot back as well.

    CB
    I never thought I'd say this, but I love my Sport-Craft!
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    EagleCrg
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/07 18:53:32 (permalink)
    First of all, I apologize for the bluntness of the direct shot across the bow of a few folks here.  It is the result of watching so many videos on TV of "hunting" deer over food plots.  While it may be sporting to some, it isn't sporting to me.  Musky, no offense intended, but I think Kype said it best and more eloquently than I could regarding the difference between shooting a deer feeding on acorns and one feeding in a food plot.  If you don't see the difference, its a waste of time to attempt to explain it. Its almost become a competitition over who can grow the biggest buck as opposed to who is the best hunter or woodsman.  In the vast majority of hunting videos and TV shows on whitetail hunting today someone is staying in a hunting lodge that is 10 times nicer than my home, gets driven to a stand that is entirely enclosed and prepositioned, and then picks out the deer they want to shoot after watching them for 15 minutes or more.  Heck, that isn't hunting in my book.  What woodsmanship skills did they display?  Did they have to put any effort into their hunt?  The most exercise they got was walking from the truck to their stand (10 yards).  I don't know if I have killed more or less bucks than anyone else here (I'm 57) and I don't care.  I would sooner shoot a small 4 point in the Adirondacks than a 160 class buck in south Texas.  It is certainly a more worthy adversary and requires a heck of alot more skill to take.  What makes a deer a trophy is not the size of the rack, but the skill and difficulty it takes to bag a deer.
    post edited by EagleCrg - 2008/05/07 18:56:13
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    S-10
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/07 20:36:23 (permalink)
    It's the difference between deer hunting and deer shooting. Deer hunting takes skill and time spent for scouting. Deer shooting takes time spent for planting.
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    wallyeye
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/07 21:01:26 (permalink)
    thanks for all of your ifo ,,what are the brands of clover plots you plant??? have any of you guys ever used Antler king?? www.antlerking.com
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    griffon
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/07 21:33:18 (permalink)
    Wally,  I know a ton of guys who do this (I don't personally-besides the point).  All of them have gone to biologic or Whitetail Institute.  I cannot speak to Antler King specifically.  If you try supplements, try to stick to minerals and foods such as flax seed, peas, and greens (if available-specifically turnip as someone mentioned, try to stay away from corn as much as possible).  I do supplement in the winter and the deer definitely benefit from it. 
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    MuskyMastr
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/08 01:00:00 (permalink)
    Walleye go to your local Agway and mix your own.  It is cheaper and you don't end up with all the junk filler........
     
     
    Question, and I apologize for the sharp retort earlier, If I plant oaks rather than clover and shoot a deer feeding in that area some years from now, what is the difference between that and a clover plot that produces food for the next 10 years?

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
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    S-10
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/08 04:14:38 (permalink)
    There is no difference if your intent for doing so is to condition the deer to come into a specific area to make it easier to kill them. It's a fine line but IMO you can plant for the deer and hunt the general area but if you setup over the plot or on a trail leading into the plot It is deer shooting and not to be confused with hunting. For example-- I feed turkeys at my bird feeder and have several gobblers coming in right now. I am hunting two spots 3 and 7 miles from home.
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    EagleCrg
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/08 08:52:34 (permalink)
    The line between using scents, baiting, and putting in food plots is not an easy one to distinguish between.  Its all a grey area and I think each hunter needs to decide for himself/herself what is right for them, as long as it is legal.  In my own mind, I see a big difference between hunting a deer over food plots and in a natural setting (in my case the Adirondacks) where deer are not being fed and do not have the unnatural advantage of food plots placed there by man.  To me, a buck taken in a natural setting is a much more difficult trophy than one taken over food plots or even bait as they use in some states.  Here in NY, it is illegal to feed deer at all.  However, I don't think the DEC considers planting food plots as feeding deer--again, a grey area.  I do hunt in the southern zone of New York at times and that is a completely different ball game--a much easier one due to deer densities, number of hunters pushing deer around and increased open spaces which tends to concentrate the deer and limit their escape options/hiding places.  I have hunted deer in 4 states and hunting them in the "big woods" to me is the supreme whitetail challenge.
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    MuskyMastr
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/08 10:23:52 (permalink)
    I love hunting the big woods of ncPA and scNY as well as WVA.  It is where I learned to hunt.  But if I am hunting in a stand of oaks that my father planted in the late 60's or a food plot thta I planted two years ago, what is the difference?   There are obvious problems with feeding wildlife, and frankly I am suprised that the PGC has not banned it here in PA yet.  Feeding is the fastest way to spread disease (namely cwd).  I just happen to think that when you start planting food wheather it is plots, mast trees or fruit trees you are taking care of the resource in a much more responsible way than using a feeder.

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
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    EagleCrg
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/08 17:50:37 (permalink)
    Musky: I agree with your distinction between food plots and feeders--a big difference in my mind.  There is no arguing the fact that planting food plots helps the deer immeasureably and I bear no ill will towards those that choose to plant them.  It certainly takes alot of time, effort, and money so I suppose in that regard, those that plant food plots have earned the deer they shoot.  My preference to hunt "big woods" deer is no doubt due to the memories I have in the hunting camps in my younger days and the fact that that is where I learned to hunt.  You mentioned CWD and that is why New York banned the feeding of deer--fear that it would increase the likihood of it spreading.  Alot of people and hunting clubs that used to feed the deer in the winter no longer can.  Some of them tried to continue despite the ban, but in the winter time, it is easy to spot places where folks are feeding them and the DEC has written tickets. 
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    wallyeye
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/08 18:21:27 (permalink)
    I baught the antler king seams to be good stuff ill see how it works?? Icalled there and asked a bunch of questions about it and how to plant it, They have the greatest  customer service!! they are a good company... i learned a little bit from the guy, all of there seed comes from the north like Canada so its a hardier seed, unlike a lot of the other seed producers like BIOlogic wich all there seed comes from the south
    #19
    MuskyMastr
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/08 18:22:57 (permalink)
    Cool, take some pictures of it as it grows so we can check it out......

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
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    eyesandgillz
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/15 15:19:39 (permalink)
    Musky,
    Don't let em get you all stirred up.  I am sure none of these guys ever hunted near a farmers field, or along a trail leading to a farmers field, or along a bottleneck in the woods leading to a farmers field.  If they did, then they are just hypocrites because that is no different than if they planted the fields themselves.  If it is legal, who are you guys to judge someone?  Oh wait, have any of you ever hunted a couple year old clear cut?  Just about the same thing as it is a man made opening creating lush browse attracting the deer with food and bedding areas.
     
    And no, I don't plant food plots where I hunt.  I have tried to frost seed a couple atv trails and openings in years past with not so good results.  And, I am a little lazy and just don't get around to doing it. 
     
    Now, to stay on topic with the original question, did you take soil samples of where you plan on planting the clover?  You will probably need to adjust the pH of the soil to make your plot successful.  Also, you'll want to kill the weeds off pretty good before you plant.  You'll probably need to do a couple sprayings with Round up spaced out to get most of the weeds killed off.  Good luck.
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    SilverKype
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/16 11:22:18 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: eyesandgillz

    Musky,
    Don't let em get you all stirred up.  I am sure none of these guys ever hunted near a farmers field, or along a trail leading to a farmers field, or along a bottleneck in the woods leading to a farmers field.  If they did, then they are just hypocrites because that is no different than if they planted the fields themselves.  If it is legal, who are you guys to judge someone?  Oh wait, have any of you ever hunted a couple year old clear cut?  Just about the same thing as it is a man made opening creating lush browse attracting the deer with food and bedding areas.

    And no, I don't plant food plots where I hunt.  I have tried to frost seed a couple atv trails and openings in years past with not so good results.  And, I am a little lazy and just don't get around to doing it. 

    Now, to stay on topic with the original question, did you take soil samples of where you plan on planting the clover?  You will probably need to adjust the pH of the soil to make your plot successful.  Also, you'll want to kill the weeds off pretty good before you plant.  You'll probably need to do a couple sprayings with Round up spaced out to get most of the weeds killed off.  Good luck.

     
    Hunting a clear cut, trail leading to a field, etc.. is making no attempt to alter anything a deer is doing.  You are still adapting to what the deer is doing.  Planting is having the deer adapt to you.  They are not the same.
     

    My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
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    eyesandgillz
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/20 11:34:01 (permalink)
    Silver,
    We agree on many things but on this one, I have to disagree.  How is hunting a farmers field, that was planted by a human, any different than hunting a food plot (pretty much just a quality hay field), planted by a human?  The size and scale may be different, but the overall process is essentially the same.  The same goes for hunting logged out areas.  If it weren't for human influence, there wouldn't have been that big of an opening "naturally" occurring unless you are hunting an area after a tornado or forest fire went through.  Like it or not, human activity caused those feeding/bedding opportunities for those whitetails and as a well schooled hunter, you are taking advantage of those activities and patterns.
     
    Also, to make a blanket statement that food plots are bad across the board or unethical or anything like that (not saying you stated it that way), would be totally off the wall.  Heck, our own PGC plants as many food plots as they can afford to benefit game and non-game species alike.  I know several individuals who own property that was once re-claimed strip mine and if they hadn't taken it upon themselves to enhance the soil and landscape via food plots and tree plantings, that land wouldn't be able to hold 1/2 as many deer as it currently does.  Yes, it benefits them as hunters attracting and holding deer/turkey on their property but it also helps the surrounding properties (that may do no planting at all) as they have increased the overall carrying capacity of the entire surrounding area.  Not to mention, depending on what is planted, food plots help numerous other species of wildlife, both game and non-game. 
     
     
    #23
    griffon
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/05/20 12:22:45 (permalink)
    I don't hunt food plots (I do have the opportunities, but choose not to).  In my mind there is indeed a difference between hunting a farmer's field and a food plot. The difference is the "intention" by which the crops were grown.  A farmer is planting his crops for human or livestock consumption first and foremost (wildlife coming in is a necessary even meddlesome byproduct).  Food Plots are planted with the primary purpose of baiting wildlife, generally with little or no regard for livestock or human consumption.  To me, shooting a deer in a food plot would be the equivalent of shooting him at my birdfeeder and that is just not my cup of tea. 
     
    Like I said, if you choose to do it, more power to you and I will not criticize anyone.  I will say however that food plots and baiting have soured me a little bit.  I no longer enter buck pools with my friends or coworkers because the deer that win will inevitibly be some monster that was shot over a food plot in Kansas or Texas (one PA buck has won out of 40+ people in the last 5 years and it was shot over a food plot from a ground level permanent shooting house).  I used to join willingly and never even cared about whether I won or not, it was just a good time for all.  Now, it has become a competition to see who can grow the biggest dumb animal and then shoot it for bragging rights. 
    #24
    jon_e_si
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/03 22:03:44 (permalink)
    TRY SOME CHICORY TOO. I BOUGHT MINE @ WAL-MART & THE DEER LOVE IT (GOOD FOR THEM TOO) ALSO BOUGHT A BUCKMASTERS BLEND - HAD CHICORY, BUCKWHEAT, TURNIPS,**** ETC.
     
    SUGGESTION TO GO TO FEED STORE & MAKE YOUR OWN BLEND IS A GOOD ONE, BUT DON'T FORGET THE CHICORY!
    #25
    MuskyMastr
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/04 00:59:29 (permalink)
    Chicory is great and the Turkeys REALLY like it.  The turnips and****are the Brassicas I was talking about earlier in the thread.  They feed through febuary.  Good stuff.

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
    #26
    bingsbaits
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/04 06:40:51 (permalink)
    Got some real purists on here.
     
    Guess I better tell my son (he's 4) that he better not ever hunt(in 30 years when they produce mast) the 25 white oak trees I planted for the deer this year.
     
    Do you scout the whole woods you hunt to make sure there are no artificial food plots within a mile of where you will hunt?? If not you could be hunting the trail to someone elses food plot.. 
     
    Planted 5 acres of Buckwheat 2 years ago for the deer. Never killed a deer on the farm that year.
     
    Many of the farmers around here will leave a few rows of corn along the edge of their field for the critters..(can we hunt that? It was purposely left for feed.)
     
    Hope none of you fellas ever participated in a multi-human deer drive. Too me that is way more unethical than waiting over a food source. Lets get enough men to chase them to the "Shooters".
     
    I understand the notion of not wanting to shoot a deer under a feeder. I have a feeder out my back door. I watch it every day. I can see it right now. I love to watch the deer. I don't even hunt the side of the farm the feeder is on.. .
     
    Yes I am trying to change the routes of the deer. Mabee my little 60 acres can be a sanctuary from the Amish and deer drivers...
     
    I feel well maintained food plots can benefit the wildlife way more than it does me. They can feed on it all year. I shoot mabee 1 deer a year but help feed how many...
     
    Have to agree with you on the tv shows where there are 100 acre food plots and permanent high houses. Don't know why that sticks in my craw. I know its legal and is no different than small plots must be the scale of it that doesn't sit well. You have guys paying big bucks to shoot big bucks from permanent stands. The only hunting they have to do is to find the stand in the morning.
     
    Sorry I sound a little hypocritical there. My pet peeve is the pay to hunt ranches with **** near tame deer. Kinda like paylake fishing. Only reason you got the big one was you were willing to pay...
     

    "There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
     
     


    #27
    SilverKype
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/04 07:59:39 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: eyesandgillz

    Silver,
    We agree on many things but on this one, I have to disagree.  How is hunting a farmers field, that was planted by a human, any different than hunting a food plot (pretty much just a quality hay field), planted by a human?  The size and scale may be different, but the overall process is essentially the same.  The same goes for hunting logged out areas.  If it weren't for human influence, there wouldn't have been that big of an opening "naturally" occurring unless you are hunting an area after a tornado or forest fire went through.  Like it or not, human activity caused those feeding/bedding opportunities for those whitetails and as a well schooled hunter, you are taking advantage of those activities and patterns.

    Also, to make a blanket statement that food plots are bad across the board or unethical or anything like that (not saying you stated it that way), would be totally off the wall.  Heck, our own PGC plants as many food plots as they can afford to benefit game and non-game species alike.  I know several individuals who own property that was once re-claimed strip mine and if they hadn't taken it upon themselves to enhance the soil and landscape via food plots and tree plantings, that land wouldn't be able to hold 1/2 as many deer as it currently does.  Yes, it benefits them as hunters attracting and holding deer/turkey on their property but it also helps the surrounding properties (that may do no planting at all) as they have increased the overall carrying capacity of the entire surrounding area.  Not to mention, depending on what is planted, food plots help numerous other species of wildlife, both game and non-game. 



     
    I guess it comes down to the individual gillz.  If I (me), plant a food plot, in which a deer changes its pattern because of ME, I think I'd feel a little less of an accomplishment of me taking it.  If I'm hunting a clearcut edge (which I do all the time), I'm still adapting to what the deer is doing.  If I was the one that created that clearcut, they they'd be adapting to me.  However, I did not.   As griffon said, the word intention is the key here.  I'm a purist, naturalist, I know it.   
     
    I don't care what anyone does, and I know food plots are great for wildlife, and can be essential for holding deer away from neighboring properties.  But where and how I hunt doesn't involve them.  It probably never will.  By choice.  Besides escaping from the daily grind, I hunt because of the challenge, which is probably the reason I go back every year.   A deer adapting to me, takes a lot of that challenge away.  To each his own.

    My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
    #28
    S-10
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/04 09:41:45 (permalink)
    Did you happen to catch Spirit of the Wild the other night. His wife took a fallow deer while it was feeding on a small pile of yellow in the middle of the woods. Did she adapt to it or did it adapt to her? It's the same with the high dollar Canadian trophy buck hunts Shocky and the like put on. Legal, but is it hunting or merely shooting.
    #29
    SilverKype
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    RE: Clover food plots 2008/06/04 09:59:05 (permalink)
    I saw her holding the deer, but not the "hunt."   I was flipping channels.  I did see Ted spreading come here deer around, however.

    My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
    #30
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