SRC Guides&posted areas?

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FlySteelh
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2008/03/25 22:53:14 (permalink)

SRC Guides&posted areas?

ALL,
I have been hearing of other stream sections the SRC boys are guiding on Walnut and other areas of Elk. I've been told of KW and boys shoeing other fisherman away in other spots other than the lease water. I've also heard from a number of people the Elk lease section can be fished legally. Is this true.
I don't see the SRC guides listed in the guide section either. Is a protest of their holy waters getting very un holy or DB giving up with a hurt full unchristian hart. 
 
"http://www.loganoutfitters.com/conditions/fishing_report.html
March 10, 2008
The information in these reports comes from our fly fishing guides who are on the stream almost every day. Check out more information on our great guided and unguided trips on private access water.
 
..................
"
Lake Erie Waters - Tributary Creeks & Steelhead Fishing
Temperatures reached the fifties last Tuesday and opened up the tributaries for the start of the spring steelhead season. Good water conditions were found on upper Walnut Creek where winter holdover fish took size 12 Prince Nymphs fished as droppers beneath an egg pattern. The melt blew out Ohio streams, but SRC guide Royce Terrell reported good fishing on upper Elk Creek, also with nymph droppers. It looked like we were off to a good start before snow storms hit the area on Friday, dumping about a foot of snow in the Erie area. Temperatures are forecast for the upper 30's by Wednesday and we're supposed to hit 50 degree's by the weekend.
"
Any info?
I hope to attend the PSA Banquet on Saturday, March 29th. I hope to meet a few of you from the board.
Thanks
FS
#1

31 Replies Related Threads

    Skip16503
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/25 23:06:43 (permalink)
    He didn't chase me off of his leased Property the other day

     



    #2
    spoonchucker
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/25 23:42:23 (permalink)
    Fly,

    The SRC lease section on upper Elk CAN be fished from the other side, but be careful how you access it.

    SRC guides, CAN guide on any other open section of stream. Listing under the guide section of the PF&BC website is optional. Not all legally licensed guides are listed.

    Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

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    The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

    GL
    #3
    Loomis
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 08:16:51 (permalink)
    SRC sucks, straight up.  Skip post those funny****pictures again u had of donny beaver I gotta see em.
    #4
    Skip16503
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 08:47:59 (permalink)

     

     

     

     
     

     



    #5
    Bughawk
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 09:55:21 (permalink)
    DB is a businessman who is in the business of selling something that many people feel does not belong to him, the fish that swim in the streams.  As far as I know, nothing he and his cronies are doing in NWPA is illegal, but many folks believe it is unethical and to some extent, immoral.  I cannot speak for his activities in other areas, but what I understand he is doing in NWPA is to lease land for the exclusive use of his clients.  Where the rub comes for me is that he has done nothing to my knowledge to improve the fishery or to support it, but rather has exploited a fishery that for the most part is supported by the fishing public, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and private clubs like 3CU, all of whom pay to stock the fish.  What he is doing is cashing in on what others have done.  You might say his operation is parasitic in nature.  Without the stocking of steelhead in these streams I would highly doubt DB would be here for the spring sucker run.

    His efforts also undermine the efforts of groups like the PSA who are trying to develop positive relationships between the fishing public and the landowners.  Groups like the PSA are trying to create a climate of mutual respect, but it is to the advantage of DB that there is a perceived problem between the fishing public and the landowners. If there are problems with slob fisherman, DB rides in on his white horse, offers the landowners money and better yet, his guides will keep the riff-raff off their property.  What a deal.  Money and not having to deal with the public.  DB is the hero.   A man who is looking out for the landowner and his rights.  DB is the conservationist, the savior of the streams....  Never mind that the average person who might be fishing the stream could also be an asset to the landowner and a partner in keeping the streams free of litter, and slob fisherman.  Whenever you limit your contact with people to just "those people" you like or agree with, you are limiting yourself to live in narrow minded and distorted world. 

    There is also the mistaken belief that if the client can have exclusive access to a fishing area, the experience will be superior to fishing an area that is open to the public.  Private is better than public.... For the enlightened we know that is an expensive lie to believe.  Heck if the report at the beginning portion of this thread is true, his guides are seeking out areas that are not part of their lease to find fish for their clients.  If that is the case, why have exclusive areas?  Besides that, anyone who has fished for steelies in NWPA for any amount of time already knows, the fish move....  Unless you have complete control of the whole stream, your little area of paradise will not hold fish for an entire season.  If you want to find fish consistently from early fall to late spring, you have to follow them.  I should also add to this, some of the biggest steelhead are often caught near the mouths of the streams in "PUBLIC ACCESS WATER" like the project water on Walnut.

    We have had this discussion here a million times and it is a hot button issue that will get people upset like you cannot imagine, but the reality is he is not doing anything illegal and as long as the law allows him to operate, he will do so.  The only thing that will stop him will be when his profits start to sag and he is not making money. 

    The real issue here is not fishing, but money, power and control.  Those with the money have the power to control the situation.  Those without money are left out in the cold.  Money talks, BS walks.
    post edited by Bughawk - 2008/03/26 10:02:47

    pax vobiscum +
    #6
    seejib
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 10:42:33 (permalink)
    For a newbie like me this makes me wonder if the state needs to take charge in this matter. I understand from what I have read here that a new law needs to be passed or an exsiting law should be ammended. It seems logical, (to me anyways, and I'm just a simple pearson) that if the state stocks the creek evey bit should be fishable. I mean we all access in a spot and walk miles up or down stream. Is it unreasonable to say that the public should have a couple of feet on either side of a state stocked creek? If they own the land the creek flows through they always have a part of there land getting wisked down stream.  Unfortunatly in the world we live in this day and age it is the $ that makes people do things, not for the love of it. Also, the fisherman that don't respect the land they use should be given a "three strikes and your out of a fishing permit for a year" rule, there are officers watching the creeks, right?  I understand that land owners want there property left clean and I would feel the same. In the end, I think the guides should have no more right to any part of any creek that the public has. Don't get me wrong but if I was asked to leave a spot by a guide that has not been posted, pound salt comes to mind.
    #7
    elephanthead
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 10:46:49 (permalink)
    Bug, as you have stated this issue has been visited and re-visited many times. Very well stated in your response. What just came to mind and I don't know why not before is why hasn't the infamous DB donated to the 3CU or the PSA or the SONS to help in the stocking of the tribs he covets so much. I know, because he doesn't have to will be the response. Sometimes the right thing to do is the hardest. Maybe a challenge to do the right thing and give something back is in order. Who knows stranger things have occured. DB & Friends if you're reading this - what up????? P.S. I'm not in any way condoning what he does....
    post edited by elephanthead - 2008/03/26 10:47:30
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    Bughawk
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 10:57:29 (permalink)
    Elephanthead,
     
    Good point.  I would like to think a civic minded person would do their part to support the system that provides them with an income, but who knows.  Maybe a healthy contribution to support local clubs and their work might be a way to better relations between DB and the fishing public.  Of course, throwing money at a problem is not always the best way to go.

    pax vobiscum +
    #9
    elephanthead
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 11:23:18 (permalink)
    Bug, throwing money started the problem. All I say is even the playing field and give back from what you take. Not the solution, however contributing to fishery would be a start. Let's face it, we're not going to get back what we didn't posess in the first place. The property was posted prior through inexcusable ignorance and DB took advantage of it. All I'm saying is open the pocketbook and chip in. Most I know do their part to support 3CU, PSA, SONS, so why not having the big boy step up to the plate????
    #10
    Loomis
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 11:54:03 (permalink)
    lol I just like to laugh at those pictures Skip has.  I think that it's so funny to see rich men with all that gear that simply can't catch fish pay to fish a private "section" of stream....It's more the lack of common sense from our fellow "gentleman" fisherman that make me laugh more than what DB is doing.  He's obviously making dough which is about all that matters. 
    #11
    Bughawk
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 11:55:17 (permalink)
    I agree.  If you benefit from the fishery, you should help support it.  I can say I have contributed to 3CU and am a member of both PSA and the SONS.  I am not super active in any of the organizations, but I pay my dues and help when I can. 
     
    The bottom line - there is enough water on the streams for everyone if no one gets greedy and wants it all.  We can live with DB and his cronies as long as he doesn't try to grab up most of the fishable water on the streams or gets the access areas posted. 
     
    A more important issue for me is the issue of private exclusive fishing clubs grabbing up the best parts of the streams for the use of a tiny number of rich folks and the rest of us are left out.  Our country was founded on the principle of everyone ought to have a chance.  Of course, I realize this was an ideal and we from the beginning excluded large numbers of people, but if we are to live into our full potential as the land of the free, we should have a society that is more open, not closed down.
     
    I hate to drive by exclusive gated communities, and private golf clubs where your money matters more than you do.  Don't get me wrong, there is a place for private property and I am not espousing communism or anything like that, but rather there is an attitude that comes with exclusiveness and is not what I would consider to be the American way.  It is more like, "I got my piece of the pie and screw everyone else."  To those to whom much is given, much is expected.
     
    So back to the original point, yes I agree that DB be ought to pony up some to help the fishery not just because it will make him more money, but because it is the right thing to do.

    pax vobiscum +
    #12
    PeteM
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 12:34:36 (permalink)
    I would disagree with wanting him to pony up. You think he's a jagoff now? Imagine what would happen if he actualy did something for someone.
     
    There's an old adage about "dance with the devil and he's gonna want to f*@*#" in there somewhere. 
     
     
    #13
    seejib
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 13:54:23 (permalink)
    I would have to agree with Pete, someone like that would expect something in return. I don't have a clue who DB is and he might be a nice guy but he sounds like hoty-toyty type. They think everyone else is below them.
    #14
    Kokanee Killer
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 19:20:28 (permalink)
    yeah just flat out greed on the part of beaver,but it is what it is at least we live in a country where we have options you dont want to know what it costs to fish trout and salmon in england or other european countries,heck us americans because we have money go to places like yougoslavia,latvia sweden ;and get the red carpet rolled out for us by the outfitters and guides who by the way mostly are countrymen of the areas we choose to travel to fish,while the residents in some cases are not allowed to fish because of their social status so like i said at least we can pick up and go elswhere.

    I have become comfortably numb
    #15
    chrisrowboat
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 19:37:31 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: PeteM

    I would disagree with wanting him to pony up. You think he's a jagoff now? Imagine what would happen if he actualy did something for someone.

    There's an old adage about "dance with the devil and he's gonna want to f*@*#" in there somewhere. 



    I agree.
     
    From my perspective, greed is always lurking with in him.
    I would never accept and gift from him or his bunch of cronies.
    From what I understand, dog food feeding, he also ripping off his clients. Touting the wild fish, but giving them hatchery, dog food fattened, non native trout.
    The state needs a wade law that will regain all the streams witch the state water flows. I feel the state should be compensated for each property that is closed to public fishing open to pay to fish. Private fishing clubs need to be taxed on the streams used and the price of this privilege.
    And, All licensed guides should be listed on the PAF&BC web site.
    Chris
    #16
    carpitiss
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 19:41:25 (permalink)
    one of the areas that D. Beaver is leasing was open to anyone willing to ask permission to fish. yes, it had posted signs, but the owner would allow anglers to fish. they just wanted to know who was on their land at any given time, and did not allow hunting......
     
    this has been discussed at length, and many of the responses were "well it was posted anyway so it doesn't matter" 

    Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrppppppp!!!!
    #17
    heberie
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 21:16:28 (permalink)
    To Kokanee: What Donny Beaver is doing would be patently illegal in Sweden, where anyone can fish anywhere at any time. No one can post a stream period. Its the custom of "allemansratten" - "every man's right" to freedom in nature, which applies to fishing, hiking, camping, etc. You can go where you want in the outdoors, and will not see a "no trespassing" sign. That don't mean America sucks, so don't diss me, that's the just law of Sweden. I don't know about any other countries. If you paid for a guide to fish there, that's your choice.
    #18
    coho yokel 1
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 21:35:39 (permalink)
    beaver is greedy.
    post edited by coho yokel 1 - 2008/03/26 21:37:59

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    #19
    Kokanee Killer
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/26 21:48:48 (permalink)
    heberie, i must of been wrong about sweden but i did hear of it in yugoslavia and a friend in england who is career military over there says it cost so much to fish that only the wealthy can really afford it.

    I have become comfortably numb
    #20
    seejib
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/27 10:05:48 (permalink)
    Thats what I'm talkin about. A law needs to be changed or a new one put in place. Land owners should be able to post there land so you can't drive or enter on there land but if we stay in the creek there should be no problem with that. I respect the land and fellow fisherman so as a FREE AMERICAN born and raised here I should be able to fish any part of any state stocked creek.
    #21
    spoonchucker
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/27 16:28:45 (permalink)
    "Land owners should be able to post there land so you can't drive or enter on there land but if we stay in the creek there should be no problem with that."
     
    You might not feel that way if the "creek" was ten feet from YOUR back door.

    Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

    Step Up, or Step Aside


    The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

    GL
    #22
    centerpin_drift
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/27 19:53:16 (permalink)
    Honestly i feel they just need too  make a law.  If you the property owner if you pay taxes or not if and i repeat, that if you POST your property that you the land owner yourself can't even FISH,HUNT THE PROPERTY THAT YOU POST. I love the signs that say no trespassing no hunting,fishing,trapping,prohibited. But then you see the people that posted it doing what what the sign says not too. Just my two cents. Then if their was a law that did that if you posted your property and you couldn't hunt or fish it, i bet you see alot less land posted.     But the real problem lays with the jag off people that just think that they can fish,or hunt the property, that they can do whatever they like to do with it And you SLOBS know who you are. IT'S CALLED RESPECT ! OTHER PEOPLES PROPERTY'S.  it's A SHAME THAT IT ONLY TAKES A FEW TO RUIN IT FOR EVERYONE. And the people that get caught littering building fires with out permission. Are the ones that should be prosecuted to the fullest no question asked and not with a slap on the wrist. I am talking a 3 months pay for the crime they committed. Thats what wrong with this state, if you know that someone has done wrong in harmful way no matter what the nature or offensive is. Their should be a hanging or a shooting if front of a firing squad right then and their and i bet you wouldn't see all this killing and shooting on t.v People think twice before they pulled the trigger. And now they want to take our guns away from us law biding citizens because of the trash out their that's selling the heroin and drugs to our kids and loved ones. Time too stop feeling bad do something government. Bring back the lynchings and the firing squads    I bet money on it that things would be alot different.  Sorry just my two cents !!!!!!!!!!! either like it or ya don't !
     
     
     
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    #23
    seejib
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/28 10:49:04 (permalink)
    If my back door was only 10 feet of a heavely fished creek I would have expected people to be in the creek right out back and accepted that. I would not grant access through my land but if someone waded the creek from above or below my land I would have to accept that also. If someone was doing something illegal or was damaging my land in anyway I would have the right to turn them in. Sounds pretty simple to me. If you lived in a place that was like that your whole life you would be used to peolpe being in the creek out back and deal with it. I do understand that some people are just simply anal and should have know the conitions and what goes on when they purchased there home and land. It is too bad that a few ruin it for the many. This is only my opinion and I may be the only one that thinks this way and I accept that, but I doubt I am the only one.      Good subject!!! I'm sure this will be a on going thing and I doubt any good will come from it but opinions will and should be heard.
    #24
    T.T.
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/28 17:24:58 (permalink)
    No wade law!  That's not the way to go about it.  IMHO, there really is enough room for the club to have the water they have now, and that does suck for those who have lost access to old honey-holes, especially for the foolish landowners themselves.(and their families)  Everyone really needs to do their part in ensuring no more access is lost. 

    What gets me is the idea of them muscling into and keeping people out of open areas.  If that's true, it's never happened around me, and it never will.
    Just let 'em try it!
    post edited by T.T. - 2008/03/28 22:18:20
    #25
    spoonchucker
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/28 21:30:21 (permalink)
    "Good subject!!! I'm sure this will be a on going thing and I doubt any good will come from it but opinions will and should be heard. "
     
     
    See,
     
    It's been debated, argued, and just plain beaten to death on this board about a thousand times over the past few years.

    Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

    Step Up, or Step Aside


    The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

    GL
    #26
    Livinfishin
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/29 09:15:09 (permalink)
    That is simply a pipe dream thinking that Beavis is going to be satisfied with what he has now and draw a line in the sand.  He is going to buy up and or lease every piece of land he can find.  The concept of sharing means nothing to him.  All he sees is greed and his practice of theft of the reasource that is paid for by the public is not going to stop unless someone puts a stop to his so called "business" in Erie. I have said it before and I know many of you disagree but a automatic nursery water regulation on any leased water in Erie would put a stop to this growing cancer very abruptly (sp). Doing nothing, or hoping he will go away or somehow say enough is enough with his leases is a simply sticking your head in the sand as to who this man is, how greedy and ruthless he his and what is main goal is in Erie when this is all said and done.
    #27
    Livinfishin
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/29 09:18:14 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: spoonchucker

    "Good subject!!! I'm sure this will be a on going thing and I doubt any good will come from it but opinions will and should be heard. "


    See,

    It's been debated, argued, and just plain beaten to death on this board about a thousand times over the past few years.

     
     
    Mainly because nothing is being done about it, and until the state and fish commission starts losing money in the future due to loss of license sales because of access loss, nothing will be done about it. It is time for them to grow a backbone and stand up to this guy, just like they did in central P.A.
    #28
    Livinfishin
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/29 09:19:45 (permalink)
    BTW, heaven help KW or any other of Beavers snot nosed guides if they try to push me out of an area I am fishing.
    #29
    carpitiss
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    RE: SRC Guides&posted areas? 2008/03/29 09:46:16 (permalink)
    Livinfish, i agree. i remember whan D. Beaver leased the first stretch of stream. other responses except the "well it was posted anyway" was "we just need to work on keeping the land open that is open now". well, guess what? since that first stretch of land there have been three other sections of stream that have been leased by the same club. nobody wanted to put a stop to it then, and more land is being lost.....

    Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrppppppp!!!!
    #30
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