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DarDys
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/25 16:48:15 (permalink)
No it’s not stiff. Had he not tried to steal her purse, she would have lived. Because he did, she died — doesn’t matter if from a fall or shot in the face — dead is dead and he was the sole cause.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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EMitch
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/25 18:19:38 (permalink)
I'm with DarDys. If ya can't do the time, then don't do the crime!

Never try to argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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MyWar
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/25 18:49:13 (permalink)
Porktown
EMitch
I think that's where the felon was not the actual murderer or killed in the commission of another crime), saying that if said felon did not actually intend to take a life, then the Commonwealth should not take his by incarceration for life.

That is what it is. Like most things, I think the other details are what matters. There was an example of someone spending life without parole for stealing a purse. The 84 year old victim in poor health, died from injuries from falling in the process. No doubt the guy is scum for stealing from an old lady. But life in prison is stiff.


This is not a good example to illustrate the real problem.

The individual does not even have to be directly involved in taking another person’s life. They only have to an accessory to a crime where a life was taken to be sentenced to life in prison under this statute.



From the link I posted:

“More than 1,000 people are sitting in jail right now on what amounts to a death sentence despite never having taken a life,” Fetterman said. “That’s not because a judge thought the sentence was deserved. It’s because a one-size-fits-all law makes it mandatory. Any reasonable person who looks at the unfairness of these sentences will acknowledge the need for change.”
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Porktown
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/25 19:13:33 (permalink)
DarDys
doesn’t matter if from a fall or shot in the face

In most crimes, it does matter to the judge at sentencing. Not sure why this would be different. There are others that intentionally killed others, serving less.
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MyWar
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/25 19:15:15 (permalink)
DarDys
No it’s not stiff. Had he not tried to steal her purse, she would have lived. Because he did, she died — doesn’t matter if from a fall or shot in the face — dead is dead and he was the sole cause.


2 guys decide to rob a convenience store. Guy #1 is gonna be the lookout, Guy #2 is gonna go in the store and hold it up. Guy #2 tells #1 he is going to pass a note and pretend to have a gun, but instead he decides to secretly bring a real gun and because he doesn’t know how to properly handle a firearm he accidentally shoots and kills the clerk. Guy #1 goes to jail for the rest of his life just for standing outside convenience store and having no knowledge an actual weapon was going to be used in the crime.

That’s how this stature works, and there are people in jail in PA under circumstances similar to what I described above. Is that justice?
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Porktown
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/25 19:56:43 (permalink)
DarDys
No it’s not stiff.

That’s what she said…
#96
DarDys
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/25 20:07:39 (permalink)
MyWar
DarDys
No it’s not stiff. Had he not tried to steal her purse, she would have lived. Because he did, she died — doesn’t matter if from a fall or shot in the face — dead is dead and he was the sole cause.


2 guys decide to rob a convenience store. Guy #1 is gonna be the lookout, Guy #2 is gonna go in the store and hold it up. Guy #2 tells #1 he is going to pass a note and pretend to have a gun, but instead he decides to secretly bring a real gun and because he doesn’t know how to properly handle a firearm he accidentally shoots and kills the clerk. Guy #1 goes to jail for the rest of his life just for standing outside convenience store and having no knowledge an actual weapon was going to be used in the crime.

That’s how this stature works, and there are people in jail in PA under circumstances similar to what I described above. Is that justice?


No it’s a hypothetical. Deal in the real world, not the one in your mind.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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DeadGator401
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/25 20:23:35 (permalink)
Porktown
EMitch
I think that's where the felon was not the actual murderer or killed in the commission of another crime), saying that if said felon did not actually intend to take a life, then the Commonwealth should not take his by incarceration for life.

That is what it is. Like most things, I think the other details are what matters. There was an example of someone spending life without parole for stealing a purse. The 84 year old victim in poor health, died from injuries from falling in the process. No doubt the guy is scum for stealing from an old lady. But life in prison is stiff.
DarDys
No it’s not stiff. Had he not tried to steal her purse, she would have lived. Because he did, she died — doesn’t matter if from a fall or shot in the face — dead is dead and he was the sole cause.


Things aren't always that Black and White. 

DarDys
MyWar
DarDys
No it’s not stiff. Had he not tried to steal her purse, she would have lived. Because he did, she died — doesn’t matter if from a fall or shot in the face — dead is dead and he was the sole cause.


2 guys decide to rob a convenience store. Guy #1 is gonna be the lookout, Guy #2 is gonna go in the store and hold it up. Guy #2 tells #1 he is going to pass a note and pretend to have a gun, but instead he decides to secretly bring a real gun and because he doesn’t know how to properly handle a firearm he accidentally shoots and kills the clerk. Guy #1 goes to jail for the rest of his life just for standing outside convenience store and having no knowledge an actual weapon was going to be used in the crime.

That’s how this stature works, and there are people in jail in PA under circumstances similar to what I described above. Is that justice?


No it’s a hypothetical. Deal in the real world, not the one in your mind.


Cmon. 
#98
MyWar
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/25 23:29:30 (permalink)
DarDys
MyWar
DarDys
No it’s not stiff. Had he not tried to steal her purse, she would have lived. Because he did, she died — doesn’t matter if from a fall or shot in the face — dead is dead and he was the sole cause.


2 guys decide to rob a convenience store. Guy #1 is gonna be the lookout, Guy #2 is gonna go in the store and hold it up. Guy #2 tells #1 he is going to pass a note and pretend to have a gun, but instead he decides to secretly bring a real gun and because he doesn’t know how to properly handle a firearm he accidentally shoots and kills the clerk. Guy #1 goes to jail for the rest of his life just for standing outside convenience store and having no knowledge an actual weapon was going to be used in the crime.

That’s how this stature works, and there are people in jail in PA under circumstances similar to what I described above. Is that justice?


No it’s a hypothetical. Deal in the real world, not the one in your mind.


It’s not a hypothetical. It’s how the law is written.

Go ahead and read the assessment of the statute, written by lawyers. It clearly explains that this is how the law in this state works.

https://www.plsephilly.or...-Audit-Jan-19-2021.pdf
#99
DarDys
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/26 07:55:36 (permalink)
DeadGator401
Porktown
EMitch
I think that's where the felon was not the actual murderer or killed in the commission of another crime), saying that if said felon did not actually intend to take a life, then the Commonwealth should not take his by incarceration for life.

That is what it is. Like most things, I think the other details are what matters. There was an example of someone spending life without parole for stealing a purse. The 84 year old victim in poor health, died from injuries from falling in the process. No doubt the guy is scum for stealing from an old lady. But life in prison is stiff.
DarDys
No it’s not stiff. Had he not tried to steal her purse, she would have lived. Because he did, she died — doesn’t matter if from a fall or shot in the face — dead is dead and he was the sole cause.


Things aren't always that Black and White. 

DarDys
MyWar
DarDys
No it’s not stiff. Had he not tried to steal her purse, she would have lived. Because he did, she died — doesn’t matter if from a fall or shot in the face — dead is dead and he was the sole cause.


2 guys decide to rob a convenience store. Guy #1 is gonna be the lookout, Guy #2 is gonna go in the store and hold it up. Guy #2 tells #1 he is going to pass a note and pretend to have a gun, but instead he decides to secretly bring a real gun and because he doesn’t know how to properly handle a firearm he accidentally shoots and kills the clerk. Guy #1 goes to jail for the rest of his life just for standing outside convenience store and having no knowledge an actual weapon was going to be used in the crime.

That’s how this stature works, and there are people in jail in PA under circumstances similar to what I described above. Is that justice?


No it’s a hypothetical. Deal in the real world, not the one in your mind.


Cmon. 


Okay, I’ll make all y’all a deal. I’ll answer your hypothetical with a hypothetical if you then answer my hypothetical.

If the person sitting in jail for whatever period of time has been in school if they were of that age; at work if they were of that age; at home taking care or being with their family; or basically anywhere on earth other than committing or being an accomplice to a felony crime, let alone a planned, premeditated felony crime would the person still be dead because the accomplice found another to take their place; would the accomplice backed out without them; or would they not be in jail for being nowhere near where a felony was occurring?

Now here is my hypothetical. Full disclosure — couldn’t stand Oz when he was on Oprah. Couldn’t stand Oz when he had his own show (only ran into either when visiting my M-I-L). Can’t stand him as a candidate — did vote for him.

But back to the hypothetical. In Fetterman’s commercials he claims to have become a public servant (not using his Master’s from Harvard — so much for being an “every man” — to find gainful employment and living off his parents until into his 50’s because they are that wealthy from the insurance business) in order to fight for public safety for about a decade, then why in his commercial does he state that “Oz wouldn’t last two hours in Braddock?”

Is it because he did a lousy job with public safety or is this a threat that his followers would do harm to another candidate — hypothetically speaking?

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
MyWar
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/26 10:27:23 (permalink)
DarDys

Okay, I’ll make all y’all a deal. I’ll answer your hypothetical with a hypothetical if you then answer my hypothetical.

If the person sitting in jail for whatever period of time has been in school if they were of that age; at work if they were of that age; at home taking care or being with their family; or basically anywhere on earth other than committing or being an accomplice to a felony crime, let alone a planned, premeditated felony crime would the person still be dead because the accomplice found another to take their place; would the accomplice backed out without them; or would they not be in jail for being nowhere near where a felony was occurring?

Now here is my hypothetical. Full disclosure — couldn’t stand Oz when he was on Oprah. Couldn’t stand Oz when he had his own show (only ran into either when visiting my M-I-L). Can’t stand him as a candidate — did vote for him.

But back to the hypothetical. In Fetterman’s commercials he claims to have become a public servant (not using his Master’s from Harvard — so much for being an “every man” — to find gainful employment and living off his parents until into his 50’s because they are that wealthy from the insurance business) in order to fight for public safety for about a decade, then why in his commercial does he state that “Oz wouldn’t last two hours in Braddock?”

Is it because he did a lousy job with public safety or is this a threat that his followers would do harm to another candidate — hypothetically speaking?


It’s almost as if you are just trying to avoid directly discussing the actual issue.
Porktown
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/26 10:29:06 (permalink)
With the following being felonies, there is a pretty good chance that some good people on this board had done at least one as a dumb kid.  Most likely never killed anyone in the process or were ever caught/charged, but some unlucky people have.  Most if not all of us grew up a bit and would avoid any of them now.
 
Vandalism
Disorderly Conduct
Loitering
DUI
Receiving stolen property
Assault 
 
Some that this rule applies to, definitely deserve the harshest penalties, there is no argument from me on that.  That is what the judicial system is there to determine during sentencing, as it does in most other crimes.  There are some very bad people that we should lock up and throw away the key or take their lives (I am just fine with death penalty for the most severe).  There are also some dumb kids that made a mistake and an accident happened, that maybe should be given a second chance to be a productive part of society after they served time and grew up a bit.  Other, more ruthless criminals that likely shouldn't get another chance, end up out instead.  To me, it is the entire system that needs reformed.
crappiefisher
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/26 12:01:14 (permalink)

EMitch
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/26 12:17:14 (permalink)
Good one!! Helps break up the depression of this thread.

Never try to argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
DeadGator401
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/26 20:47:32 (permalink)
DarDys
DeadGator401
Porktown
EMitch
I think that's where the felon was not the actual murderer or killed in the commission of another crime), saying that if said felon did not actually intend to take a life, then the Commonwealth should not take his by incarceration for life.

That is what it is. Like most things, I think the other details are what matters. There was an example of someone spending life without parole for stealing a purse. The 84 year old victim in poor health, died from injuries from falling in the process. No doubt the guy is scum for stealing from an old lady. But life in prison is stiff.
DarDys
No it’s not stiff. Had he not tried to steal her purse, she would have lived. Because he did, she died — doesn’t matter if from a fall or shot in the face — dead is dead and he was the sole cause.


Things aren't always that Black and White. 

DarDys
MyWar
DarDys
No it’s not stiff. Had he not tried to steal her purse, she would have lived. Because he did, she died — doesn’t matter if from a fall or shot in the face — dead is dead and he was the sole cause.


2 guys decide to rob a convenience store. Guy #1 is gonna be the lookout, Guy #2 is gonna go in the store and hold it up. Guy #2 tells #1 he is going to pass a note and pretend to have a gun, but instead he decides to secretly bring a real gun and because he doesn’t know how to properly handle a firearm he accidentally shoots and kills the clerk. Guy #1 goes to jail for the rest of his life just for standing outside convenience store and having no knowledge an actual weapon was going to be used in the crime.

That’s how this stature works, and there are people in jail in PA under circumstances similar to what I described above. Is that justice?


No it’s a hypothetical. Deal in the real world, not the one in your mind.


Cmon. 


Okay, I’ll make all y’all a deal. I’ll answer your hypothetical with a hypothetical if you then answer my hypothetical.

If the person sitting in jail for whatever period of time has been in school if they were of that age; at work if they were of that age; at home taking care or being with their family; or basically anywhere on earth other than committing or being an accomplice to a felony crime, let alone a planned, premeditated felony crime would the person still be dead because the accomplice found another to take their place; would the accomplice backed out without them; or would they not be in jail for being nowhere near where a felony was occurring?

Now here is my hypothetical. Full disclosure — couldn’t stand Oz when he was on Oprah. Couldn’t stand Oz when he had his own show (only ran into either when visiting my M-I-L). Can’t stand him as a candidate — did vote for him.

But back to the hypothetical. In Fetterman’s commercials he claims to have become a public servant (not using his Master’s from Harvard — so much for being an “every man” — to find gainful employment and living off his parents until into his 50’s because they are that wealthy from the insurance business) in order to fight for public safety for about a decade, then why in his commercial does he state that “Oz wouldn’t last two hours in Braddock?”

Is it because he did a lousy job with public safety or is this a threat that his followers would do harm to another candidate — hypothetically speaking?


I'm gonna be honest here I kinda lost ya. 

But I'll do my best to answer. I don't think it's a threat or anything that has to do with public safety?

Braddock is a blue collar place, like Pittsburgh in general. OZ is a rich celebrity from Hollywood. Saying he "Wouldn't last 2 hours here" is essentially saying "This ain't the kinda place for you." Which it isn't. Fetterman wouldn't last an hour in Hollywood either.

My "Cmon" was more towards the point how your comment seemed. MYwar gave a legit hypothetical that was relevant to the topic. You dismissed it in a weird way, that seemed more like a dig at him, than his point. 
BloodyHand
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/26 21:16:27 (permalink)
Here's a thought. Hypothetically speaking of course. If anyone involved in an armed robbery, gets to go to jail for life. Even if no one was murdered. 
Maybe guy #1 should have realized how much of a POS guy #2 really is........
 
BH
DeadGator401
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/26 23:45:29 (permalink)
BloodyHand
Here's a thought. Hypothetically speaking of course. If anyone involved in an armed robbery, gets to go to jail for life. Even if no one was murdered. 
Maybe guy #1 should have realized how much of a POS guy #2 really is........
 
BH



Yeah. While we're at it, anyone who drives in a car with a Drunk Driver - Lifetime sentence. 
Those 4 year olds shoulda taken mums keys.....

DG
Porktown
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/27 07:21:40 (permalink)
We should have an authoritarian police state. MAGA!!! In Trump’s name, Amen!
DarDys
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/27 08:26:01 (permalink)
DeadGator401
BloodyHand
Here's a thought. Hypothetically speaking of course. If anyone involved in an armed robbery, gets to go to jail for life. Even if no one was murdered. 
Maybe guy #1 should have realized how much of a POS guy #2 really is........
 
BH



Yeah. While we're at it, anyone who drives in a car with a Drunk Driver - Lifetime sentence. 
Those 4 year olds shoulda taken mums keys.....

DG


And right here is why there cannot be a rationale discussion on this forum — when presented with a debatable point, someone takes it to the ridiculous because they cannot provide a valid counterpoint and instead of conceding, they end the conversation by providing something that is worth anyone countering because it is so far from reality (hypothetical?).

There is a vast difference between a 4-year-old involuntary being strapped in a car seat and a 12-year old plus (just going that low because it happens even though, unless they did the actual killing, it’s juvvy for them) or realistically an 18-year old plus knowingly and willingly participating in a felony and something happens where someone ends up killed.

But because there is no logical, valid rebuttal, the response is something totally off the charts just to keep from admitting someone else has a point to be considered.

Until the climate changes to not needing to win every debate; be on the exact opposite side of every issue just to be in the opposite side; and common sense can be admitted, not mocked, this country will continue for evermore to be ping pong balled as parties switch power. And that’s too bad.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
ICE NUT
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/27 09:23:28 (permalink)
Porktown
We should have an authoritarian police state. MAGA!!! In Trump’s name, Amen!

We do called the FBI and the DOJ.
MyWar
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/27 14:15:27 (permalink)
DarDys


But because there is no logical, valid rebuttal, the response is something totally off the charts just to keep from admitting someone else has a point to be considered.

Until the climate changes to not needing to win every debate; be on the exact opposite side of every issue just to be in the opposite side; and common sense can be admitted, not mocked, this country will continue for evermore to be ping pong balled as parties switch power. And that’s too bad.


Sure dude. You’re the voice of reason. You’re the voice of sanity.

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say it’s safe to assume you support this guy too:

https://www.nbcnews.com/p...01?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

So you’ll have to excuse me when I find it extremely difficult to take your pleas for “common sense” seriously when these are the kind of nutjobs that republican voters are selecting to represent them in our government.
post edited by MyWar - 2022/09/27 15:26:50
DeadGator401
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/27 14:45:43 (permalink)
DarDys
DeadGator401
BloodyHand
Here's a thought. Hypothetically speaking of course. If anyone involved in an armed robbery, gets to go to jail for life. Even if no one was murdered. 
Maybe guy #1 should have realized how much of a POS guy #2 really is........
 
BH



Yeah. While we're at it, anyone who drives in a car with a Drunk Driver - Lifetime sentence. 
Those 4 year olds shoulda taken mums keys.....

DG


And right here is why there cannot be a rationale discussion on this forum — when presented with a debatable point, someone takes it to the ridiculous because they cannot provide a valid counterpoint and instead of conceding, they end the conversation by providing something that is worth anyone countering because it is so far from reality (hypothetical?).

There is a vast difference between a 4-year-old involuntary being strapped in a car seat and a 12-year old plus (just going that low because it happens even though, unless they did the actual killing, it’s juvvy for them) or realistically an 18-year old plus knowingly and willingly participating in a felony and something happens where someone ends up killed.

But because there is no logical, valid rebuttal, the response is something totally off the charts just to keep from admitting someone else has a point to be considered.

Until the climate changes to not needing to win every debate; be on the exact opposite side of every issue just to be in the opposite side; and common sense can be admitted, not mocked, this country will continue for evermore to be ping pong balled as parties switch power. And that’s too bad.


You're overlooking one thing - This simply isn't worth the time to give an actual response.
It's not a logical, valid statement, so why on earth would it be pulled apart and discussed?

Life in prison for anyone involved in an Armed robbery is delusional on a billion fronts. IT's not even clear if this is in the Felony Murder discussion, as it's not mentioned. 

You are correct though - the country will ping pong. 
BloodyHand
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/29 20:08:07 (permalink)
Just trying to curb the criminals. Stiffer sentencing guidelines obviously isnt the answerer. Oh, I forgot, they're the victims. Oh, and lets get some bail reform in our state. We need to let these criminals right back out on the street with cashless bail right after they commit a crime.
 
BH
Irisheyeball
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/30 09:35:07 (permalink)
I'm often reminded of the final scenes of "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance."  When the legend becomes fact....print the legend.
DarDys
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/30 09:59:21 (permalink)
https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/packard-plant-demolition-begins-today/

Read down a few paragraphs and see where the funding is coming from.

Can someone please explain the direct correlation between the action and the funding source?

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
LDD
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/30 11:16:50 (permalink)
DarDys
https://www.hagerty.com/m...molition-begins-today/

Read down a few paragraphs and see where the funding is coming from.

Can someone please explain the direct correlation between the action and the funding source?



If I had to guess I would say it has something to do with the next door business referenced in the article.  Maybe they qualified if they proved that the structure was hurting their already covid depleted business.  
All of the covid $ for the last three years has been moved around by all of the businesses and entities that have received it to justify all sorts of things.  Get this...our local school district magically has the $$ to put in a turf football field after covid...I wonder where THAT money came from??
Irisheyeball
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/30 13:13:29 (permalink)
DarDys
https://www.hagerty.com/m...molition-begins-today/

Read down a few paragraphs and see where the funding is coming from.

Can someone please explain the direct correlation between the action and the funding source?

Most likely the City and possibly other overlapping jurisdictions dedicated a portion of their American Recovery Act funding to the demo project.  This would have been an eligible activity under several different federal programs.  That might include the Community Development Block Grant  program, brownfield redevelopment, Michigan iterations of those programs or even IRS tax credits. $1.7 million is a rounding error in relation to the amount of federal funding this area receives on a yearly basis.  The Packard plant is essentially an absentee landlord issue on a grand scale.  Landlord/developer purchases the property with a vision for redevelopment, using OPM, which overly appreciative locals fall for.  Despite generally favorable economic conditions (for Detroit), he fails to deliver on anything and property falls further into disrepair...if that's even possible.  Tax/municipal liens pile up...it goes to court, think public taking...eminent domain, and city steps in to begin promised clean-up.  The Recovery Act funding was a handy source.  Municipal authorities will end up owning this property again.
 
If your question is really closer to "what does demolition have to do with Covid relief?" the answer is simple.  Recovery/stimulus Acts use existing pathways and agencies to deliver federal funds.  The legislation language prescribes what's an eligible activity.  Congresspersons are pressured to write that language (which is actually written by 26-year old interns) as broadly as possible to facilitate good opportunities for ribbon cuttings and speachifying at campaign time.
 
 
DarDys
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/30 13:55:50 (permalink)
Thank you.

I thought for a moment that Packard had died of Covid so they needed to tear the building down.

Note to self, turn off the sarcasm font.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
DeadGator401
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Re: Patriots 2022/10/07 12:50:14 (permalink)
Dark Brandon has begun the transition into Dank Brandon. 
MyWar
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Re: Patriots 2022/10/07 20:07:19 (permalink)
Let’s Grow Brandon
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