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pensfan1
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/20 22:50:03 (permalink)
I got sucked in again🙄
post edited by pensfan1 - 2022/09/20 22:59:21
#61
DeadGator401
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/21 00:29:00 (permalink)
EMitch
Porktown

What ever happened to debate over Conservative ideals, basically lower taxes and less government vs. Progressive ideals, programs usually meant to help people but come at a cost?  How have we gotten from that to the cesspool of the far left and far right that seem to be what our primary system delivers for candidates?  How are there so many far left or far right people to be in the majority of their party?  Most people that I know seem to be either leaning left or leaning right.  Even on here, besides a few, seem to be that way.  But those on the far left or far right are just fine throwing around the idea of a civil war???  How a third center party can't come up and save us all?




How did we get this far, you ask? One reason is that 30 or so years ago, there were still Blue Dog democrats. Even Clinton democrats were reasonable, and many times both sides met in the center of the table and got something done, but the Progressives slowly infiltrated the Democrat Party, often by campaigning and running on a centrist platform, then makin' a hard left turn once they were seated. There's nearly 90 of them in the House now, and they have control of the party because they have the biggest mouths and the sympathy of the mainstream media. How can you help but admit that the modern day Democrat Party Just ain't your fathers' Oldsmobile any more?
 
Meanwhile, moderate Republicans get tired of them running their traps constantly, and they can't get a word in edgewise. The media will print 97 articles favoring the 'Crats to just 3 (if they're lucky) favoring a Republican. Think about yourself. Ever been in a discussion (or argument) when every time you tried to make a point the other side just stepped all over you and wouldn't let you speak. Well, that's what has driven conservatives and many moderate Republicans to go hard right in an effort to ward off the Left's relentless hammering. So now, we basically have moderate Democrats and Republicans sitting on the side lines and accomplishing nothing, so the only way to be heard is to get some skin in the game and move either left or right. It is hard right against hard left mainly because many of the lefts ideas and policies are just plain wrong.



Social media and it's impact on the Rise of Trump. Trump becoming a Deity. 

An incredible percentage of Republicans don't even believe Trump lost the 2020 election. Things like this, are why we're not just disagreeing anymore - it's a battle of morals anymore. 

As for the "Think about yourself. Ever been in a discussion (or argument) when every time you tried to make a point the other side just stepped all over you and wouldn't let you speak. Well, that's what has driven conservatives and many moderate Republicans to go hard right in an effort to ward off the Left's relentless hammering. " comment - The "woe is me poor me" mentality many conservatives have isn't the cause of the Hard Right rise. Hate on a daily basis being normalized by a President, made racists and other scumbags feel comfortable and feel like it's ok to be openly a right wing extremist. 
#62
snagr
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/21 14:40:53 (permalink)
DeadGator401
Hate on a daily basis being normalized by a President, made racists and other scumbags feel comfortable and feel like it's ok to be openly a right wing extremist. 



Spell it out for us - what makes one a scumbag and/or a right wing extremist?  Just voting for Trump?  Being Republican?  Specific policies?  Help me understand so I know how much a right wing extremist I am.  
 
When your boy Dark Brandon said Trump voters are a threat to democracy, do you agree with that assessment?  Cause that sure sounds like a president trying to normalize hate.  
 
 
 
 
 
#63
pensfan1
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/21 15:30:49 (permalink)
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#64
ICE NUT
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/21 15:59:16 (permalink)
cmon Gator what makes us a right wing extremist,answer snagr's post I'm curious also!!
#65
pensfan1
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/21 16:33:30 (permalink)
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JerryS
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/21 18:54:12 (permalink)
snagr
DeadGator401
Hate on a daily basis being normalized by a President, made racists and other scumbags feel comfortable and feel like it's ok to be openly a right wing extremist. 



Spell it out for us - what makes one a scumbag and/or a right wing extremist?  Just voting for Trump?  Being Republican?  Specific policies?  Help me understand so I know how much a right wing extremist I am.  
 
When your boy Dark Brandon said Trump voters are a threat to democracy, do you agree with that assessment?  Cause that sure sounds like a president trying to normalize hate.  
 



You have every right to be critical of Biden, his policies, and democrats in general.  I'll even go as far as respecting your decision to vote for Trump in 2016, based on your available options (I sat out the 2016 election).  But if you still support Trump after everything we have seen from him since 2016, you don't deserve an answer to your question.
post edited by JerryS - 2022/09/21 18:55:15
#67
EMitch
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/21 19:48:48 (permalink)
JerryS
 
  But if you still support Trump after everything we have seen from him since 2016, you don't deserve an answer to your question.




I know what ya mean. It was horrible. That miserable wall and that stay in Mexico policy had cut down illegal immigration to a crawl, then he went and cut taxes and all kinds of regulations and that brought the economy up to nearly 6 1/2% and a 1 1/2% inflation rate in the last year even with the pandemic. Got that darned vaccine started and available in record time, forced the other members of NATO to pay up their share and carry their own weight. Then he went and re-established us as the number 1 Super Power in the world, led the way to having the strongest military in the world since the early 2000s, got the Rocket Man to back off the nuclear testing, created jobs up the kazoo, and many of them were able to bring up the minorities to their highest job rates in years. I don't know how we survived while he was in office. He was just a total ba$tard and I rejoice that he's gone.

Never try to argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#68
DeadGator401
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/21 21:04:43 (permalink)
snagr
DeadGator401
Hate on a daily basis being normalized by a President, made racists and other scumbags feel comfortable and feel like it's ok to be openly a right wing extremist. 



Spell it out for us - what makes one a scumbag and/or a right wing extremist?  Just voting for Trump?  Being Republican?  Specific policies?  Help me understand so I know how much a right wing extremist I am.  
 
When your boy Dark Brandon said Trump voters are a threat to democracy, do you agree with that assessment?  Cause that sure sounds like a president trying to normalize hate.  


ICE NUT
cmon Gator what makes us a right wing extremist,answer snagr's post I'm curious also!!



I lit a match apparently and walked away. Apologies. I have a job, a kid, and my **** dog died today. Cut me some slack friends.  

You can notice, I put "Racists" first. That one is self explanatory. I put scumbags second as a way to lump in all of the things that come with/go beyond your average racist. 
Sexist, Abusers, Nazis, White Supremacist's, etc. You get the picture. (Picture someone feeling comfortable enough to wear a 6MWE shirt referring to concentration camps, at the Jan 6 rally, and subsequent attack on the capital. Wonder why he felt he could do that)
I didn't call either of you these things - if you feel that you are, that's on you, I don't think you guys are. (Remember what I said earlier, "Woe is me" mentality on display here)

And you know as well as I do Snag - That's not what Biden said. 
Here's some reading for ya to clarify it: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/failure-condemn-political-violence-poses-threat-democracy-biden-says-2022-09-02/

And for the record - no I don't like what he said. I think it was pouring gas on a simmering fire, and won't serve much purpose other than to steel the "Woe is us" victim MAGA Republican mindset. I think he's correct though - they're a massive threat to Democracy. 


#69
Porktown
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/21 21:43:12 (permalink)
Condolences Gator.
#70
fishin coyote
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/21 22:01:33 (permalink)
Sorry to hear about the pup Gator. Its never easy 

Nothing is Free!!
Reward equals Effort


#71
JerryS
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/21 23:56:10 (permalink)
EMitch
JerryS
 
  But if you still support Trump after everything we have seen from him since 2016, you don't deserve an answer to your question.


I know what ya mean. It was horrible. That miserable wall and that stay in Mexico policy had cut down illegal immigration to a crawl, then he went and cut taxes and all kinds of regulations and that brought the economy up to nearly 6 1/2% and a 1 1/2% inflation rate in the last year even with the pandemic. Got that darned vaccine started and available in record time, forced the other members of NATO to pay up their share and carry their own weight. Then he went and re-established us as the number 1 Super Power in the world, led the way to having the strongest military in the world since the early 2000s, got the Rocket Man to back off the nuclear testing, created jobs up the kazoo, and many of them were able to bring up the minorities to their highest job rates in years. I don't know how we survived while he was in office. He was just a total ba$tard and I rejoice that he's gone.


  • Is that the wall that Mexico paid for?  Doesn't seem to be working very well.
  • Historically, the ideal unemployment rate has been 4-5% and the ideal GDP has been 2-3%.  Lower unemployment rates and higher GDP is inflationary.  In 2017, the unemployment rate was 4.2% and GDP was 3%.  Who in their right mind would cut taxes then?  Cutting taxes is a tool for recessions.  He also pressured the Fed for low and even negative interests rates.  You are smart enough to realize his tax and interest rate policies (and covid) are the main sources of our current inflation.  
  • Too bad his bleach and uv light injections weren't adopted for Covid.
  • Inside info showed he had plans to exit NATO if he was re-elected to a second term, since he knew exiting in his first term would hurt his re-election chances.  I wouldn't be surprised if he discussed these plans with Putin.  He would then be allowed to build Trump Tower Moscow!
  • We never lost the number one super power status.
  • You can't be gullible enough to believe he had any influence on Rocket man
  • Trump reduced legal immigration by over 11M visas.  These unfilled jobs also contribute to our inflation woes
Here is a man that has cheated on three different wives.  How can you possibly believe he has our best interests?  It has always been about his personal gain.
 
post edited by JerryS - 2022/09/22 00:06:23
#72
snagr
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/22 09:52:08 (permalink)
DeadGator401
And you know as well as I do Snag - That's not what Biden said. 
Here's some reading for ya to clarify it: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/failure-condemn-political-violence-poses-threat-democracy-biden-says-2022-09-02/




lololol, Joe Biden forgot what Dark Brandon said 12 hours later and Reuters forgot what Reuters wrote 12 hours earlier.  https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-confronts-extremism-perilous-moment-presidency-country-2022-09-01/
 
Carefully curated scene in Philly.  Scripted and rehearsed and every detail of the speech planned.  But Friday morning, "That's not what I meant."  
 
Maybe Dementia Joe doesn't really believe that, but Dark Brandon's handlers made him say that.  At any rate, gaslighting might work on a lot of people but it doesn't work on me.  
 
Really sorry to hear about the dog man.  Truly one of the worst kinds of pain the human heart can experience.  
#73
Porktown
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/22 11:34:05 (permalink)
"I do think anyone who calls for the use of violence, who fails to condemn violence when it's used, and refuses to acknowledge that an election has been won, insists on changing the way in which the rules, you count the votes, that is a threat to democracy."

Seems like the same thing as saying “MAGA Republicans” to me? Are there any MAGA Republicans that don’t fit under any of the items that he noted? There are very likely some that voted for Trump that don’t. And I think they all know that Brandon was not talking to them.

These are all threats to Democracy, especially the refusal to acknowledge an election that has over and over been proven Brandon to be the winner and Trump the loser. Proven by multiple GOP state election officials that were Trump supporters. Further support of this loser is not only dangerous, it shows how otherwise smart people can somehow be in these cult like followings of politicians. Much of Germany did the same about 100 years ago, follow a very similar far right extremist with many similar views.
#74
snagr
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/22 12:22:53 (permalink)
Porktown
"I do think anyone who calls for the use of violence, who fails to condemn violence when it's used, and refuses to acknowledge that an election has been won, insists on changing the way in which the rules, you count the votes, that is a threat to democracy."



I agree.
 
So why wasn't this in Dark Brandon's script?   
 
In the same interview, "I don't consider any Trump supporter to be a threat to the country."  
 
Which is it?  All of em?  Some of em?  None of 'em?
 
Does Dementia Joe even know what he's supposed to think about it?  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
#75
MyWar
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/22 12:31:21 (permalink)
You can take Biden’s MAGA remarks as being directed at voters personally, or you can interpret them as being directed at MAGA elected officials. I’d prefer to see the administration target the rhetoric against lawmakers rather than voters, but whatever. It is what it is, and Biden did not create this toxic political environment of today.

After 4+ years of Trump antagonizing literally every single person that didn’t pledge absolute fealty, it’s really hard generate much sympathy for anybody’s hurt feelings. Trump threw political decorum out the window a long time ago.

Plus he’s not wrong. These people like Mastriano are basically describing how they will overthrow the government if given the chance. It’s incredibly dangerous, and it’s astonishing how many people in this country can not see it for what it is.
post edited by MyWar - 2022/09/22 12:56:01
#76
Porktown
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/22 12:39:07 (permalink)
snagr
 
 
Does Dementia Joe even know what he's supposed to think about it?  
 
 

That is a different topic...
 
Why is there a minimum age for President, but not maximum?  
#77
DeadGator401
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/22 13:41:41 (permalink)
snagr
DeadGator401
And you know as well as I do Snag - That's not what Biden said. 
Here's some reading for ya to clarify it: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/failure-condemn-political-violence-poses-threat-democracy-biden-says-2022-09-02/




lololol, Joe Biden forgot what Dark Brandon said 12 hours later and Reuters forgot what Reuters wrote 12 hours earlier.  https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-confronts-extremism-perilous-moment-presidency-country-2022-09-01/
 
Carefully curated scene in Philly.  Scripted and rehearsed and every detail of the speech planned.  But Friday morning, "That's not what I meant."  
 
Maybe Dementia Joe doesn't really believe that, but Dark Brandon's handlers made him say that.  At any rate, gaslighting might work on a lot of people but it doesn't work on me.  
 
Really sorry to hear about the dog man.  Truly one of the worst kinds of pain the human heart can experience.  



Lol I laughed real hard at the mental image of Dark Brandon yelling at Biden in a mirror or something. "I told you!"

Overall, it's an exhausting issue and topic. Biden did say he was going to unite the country. He's failed to do so. He's tried, he's gotten a lot of bipartisian support on a lot of legislation, but for your everyday citizen, nope. I'm not sure who or what could unite the country at this point. Maybe war with russia?

Thanks to all for the words about my pup. He lived a long, great life for his breed.
#78
LDD
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/22 13:47:01 (permalink)
DeadGator401
 

Thanks to all for the words about my pup. He lived a long, great life for his breed.


I am glad he had that life.  Very sorry for your loss.  
#79
LDD
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/22 13:59:53 (permalink)
snagr
Porktown
"I do think anyone who calls for the use of violence, who fails to condemn violence when it's used, and refuses to acknowledge that an election has been won, insists on changing the way in which the rules, you count the votes, that is a threat to democracy."



I agree.
 
So why wasn't this in Dark Brandon's script?   
 
In the same interview, "I don't consider any Trump supporter to be a threat to the country."  
 
Which is it?  All of em?  Some of em?  None of 'em?
 
Does Dementia Joe even know what he's supposed to think about it?  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




 
Well, if you're still a Trump supporter then I guess you're in the MAGA crowd and I don't blame you for taking it personally, I'm sure I would.  
 
However, I never conflated the MAGA crowd with people who just "voted for Trump"...There are millions that voted for Donald that didn't like him, didn't put up a sign, were actually ashamed to vote for that bag of ####s and who would never do it again.  I don't think there's anything wrong with the conservative part of the MAGA platform.  But, the big lie stuff and replacement theory junk is absolute garbage and anyone espousing any of that is dead wrong.  You wanna talk about the border crisis, sure, let's do it, it's real.  Stoking white nationalist, racist rhetoric is NOT talking about solving the border crisis, it's about creating hate and controlling through fear.  
I think Ol Joe took the wrong approach.  The main threat is the big lie and that's what he should have focused on.  Alienating a group of people never works out well for anyone.   
#80
ICE NUT
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/22 14:59:03 (permalink)
I think the real threat to democracy are the people who voted and put this administration in office with the whole purpose was to fundamentality change america. Does anybody not think that a open border that allows millions of migrants illegal ones to come are not a threat? Really I know some day they will be given amnesty and able to vote so the power hungry folks can keep their power. How about the crime that's going on everywhere ,the defund the police but now their walking that back as it gets closer to election day. Brandon has flip flopped on almost everything,what were peoples choices vote for Hillary the most crooked person on earth,then next election you get Brandon the basement man whose never had a job other than the government dole and has done nothing in over 50 years!!!
  I did vote for Trump mainly because the choices were so bad,his policies were great thought even though he is a turd we were much better off than we are now. And lastly i do not appreciate a career politican  old senile man who never defended democracy and put his life on the line to do so tell me im a threat to democracy eff him and i'd tell him that to his face.and thats the main reason I'm a MAGA person
#81
DarDys
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/22 15:27:19 (permalink)
Gator,

So sorry to hear about your dog. They leave a very deep and lasting impression.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
#82
Porktown
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/23 19:35:41 (permalink)
What are people’s thoughts of PA’s “felony murder” rule? Fetterminflation wants to remove it. What are thoughts? Do most even know what it is?
#83
rippinlip
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/25 11:47:12 (permalink)
Trump hasn't been in office for over 2 years! That sh*t don't flush. How about a list of what Joe and his cronies has done for us on our dime?

You should have been here yesterday.............. Streams are made for the wise man to contemplate and fools to pass by [Sir Izaak Walton]
#84
eyesandgillz
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/25 12:02:59 (permalink)
Porktown
What are people’s thoughts of PA’s “felony murder” rule? Fetterminflation wants to remove it. What are thoughts? Do most even know what it is?


So, is he advocating the removal of second degree murder charges when a person commits murder during the commission of another felony?   If so, wholeheartedly disagree and just another of a long list of items I am in total disagreement with the tax evader and another reason I would never vote for him.
#85
EMitch
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/25 12:04:40 (permalink)
Fetterman's position,  (which he since walked back), is to parole those convicted of 2nd degree felony murder, (I think that's where the felon was not the actual murderer or killed in the commission of another crime), saying that if said felon did not actually intend to take a life, then the Commonwealth should not take his by incarceration for life. Bad position, no matter the circumstances. I still believe we have the death penalty for 1st degree murder, but that don't make any sense either. Are you old enough to remember the "Kill for Thrill" cases of Lesko & Travaglia? They baited Apollo Police officer Leonard Miller into giving chase after breaking the law several times with vehicle infractions, (the car was stolen), and then they killed him, along with 3 others. Both were convicted and given the death penalty, and since 1977, IIR, 4 Pennsylvania governors have signed their death warrants. Thornburg, Casey, Ridge, and Corbett. Casey only signed for Travaglia. He died in prison in 2017. Lesko is still waiting for the chair or whatever. Can't imagine what Fetterman would want to do with him, but the state has already spent millions on the appeals process for both of them.
 
Fetterman should be thinking back to what happened politically to Michael Dukakis after he let out a convicted felon who then committed murder. It was the political death knell for Dukakis.
post edited by EMitch - 2022/09/25 12:06:37

Never try to argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#86
EMitch
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/25 12:28:50 (permalink)
eyesandgillz
 
 and another reason I would never vote for him.




 
At his very brief campaign events, he doesn't look the part of a Lieutenant Governor nor the part of a United States Senator. Shorts that are not quite jams just below the knees, dark sneakers & no socks or black socks, the hoodie, either black or white, and now he's taken to wearing a scarf around his neck, you'd think runnin' for the US Senate he wouldn't want to look like a gang banger from down on the block, but he does. I think if I was still a registered 'Crat, (mid '70s) I still couldn't pull the trigger to vote for him. Besides his appearance and his health condition, he's so far out there that he's to the left of Bernie Sanders. 

Never try to argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#87
MyWar
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/25 14:23:37 (permalink)
Fetterman’s position is a bit more nuanced than described above.

Second degree murder charges apply in PA as mandatory life sentences, even if the person involved in the crime DID NOT actually take a life. The individual only has to be an accessory to the crime where a murder was committed. So for example, a person who was involved in planning a robbery, or driving a getaway car would get a mandatory life sentence, even if another individual actually killed somebody.

https://www.media.pa.gov/...etails.aspx?newsid=112

The life sentence is mandatory, so the even the judge has no discretion to alter sentencing. An individual that no knowledge that a gun would even be involved in the crime could end up in jail for the rest of their life. It’s a ridiculous statute.
#88
MyWar
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/25 14:34:37 (permalink)
EMitch

Fetterman should be thinking back to what happened politically to Michael Dukakis after he let out a convicted felon who then committed murder. It was the political death knell for Dukakis.


Taking politically convenient positions rather than holding true to one’s ideals is political cowardice.

Fetterman hasn’t walked anything back. His position is clear to anybody that wants to have a good faith discussion about it.

Playing the “soft on crime” game is a bad faith argument. It’s just a cheap political attack that republicans have used for decades as soon as anybody suggests the criminal justice system has any flaws and there are people in jail who shouldn’t be there.
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Re: Patriots 2022/09/25 16:36:42 (permalink)
EMitch
I think that's where the felon was not the actual murderer or killed in the commission of another crime), saying that if said felon did not actually intend to take a life, then the Commonwealth should not take his by incarceration for life.

That is what it is. Like most things, I think the other details are what matters. There was an example of someone spending life without parole for stealing a purse. The 84 year old victim in poor health, died from injuries from falling in the process. No doubt the guy is scum for stealing from an old lady. But life in prison is stiff.
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