Helpful ReplyHot!So what is OFF TOPIC allowed?

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Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/06/25 12:34:06 (permalink)
Constitutional rights is a pretty broad brush. Neither of these “violated Constitutional rights”, until the Supreme Court was stacked with conservatives. With liberals and moderates, neither “violated Constitutional rights”…
ICE NUT
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/06/25 13:53:18 (permalink)
The Supreme Court was stacked conservative justices BECAUSE in 2016 97 million people did not bother to vote.Or they voted for someone who had no chance of winning.Elections do have consequences Now imagine  if those 97 million voted for Hillary the court would be stacked with liberal justices correct so the only people responsibe for this are the American voting public.So if Hillary was elected she would have been able to place 3 liberal justices on the court and it would be 6 to 3 liberal court.
MyWar
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/06/25 14:21:30 (permalink)
Porktown
Constitutional rights is a pretty broad brush.


Exactly. See the 9th amendment.

https://reason.com/2022/0...lpb7aMR5Qp3rS4&amp

James Madison deliberately put this in the Bill of Rights because he was looking to the future and he wanted to ensure that rights not specifically enumerated would also fall under the protection of the constitution. So not only did that open the door for things like the right to privacy (which Alito and Thomas just shiit all over), but it’s also pretty compelling evidence that the framers of the constitution intended it to be something that could evolve over time.

The founding fathers can be rightfully criticized for a lot of things (like being rich slave owners for example), but they weren’t stupid. They knew the America of the 1780s would not be the same as the America of 1973, or 2022, or 2100, or 2200, and so on.

I am not a lawyer and I won’t pretend to understand alot of the complex legal arguments getting thrown around in the wake of this decision. But I pretty firmly believe that these conservative justices had their minds up, independent of any constitutional precedent or law. They just know enough about the law to construct a fancy legal argument to support their predetermined views, rather than the other way around.
ICE NUT
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/06/25 14:24:39 (permalink)
Hillary didn't win thats why there she would have placed liberals on court and we wouldn't be talking about his now. CORRECT
MyWar
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/06/25 14:32:02 (permalink)
ICE NUT
The Supreme Court was stacked conservative justices BECAUSE in 2016 97 million people did not bother to vote.Or they voted for someone who had no chance of winning.Elections do have consequences Now imagine  if those 97 million voted for Hillary the court would be stacked with liberal justices correct so the only people responsibe for this are the American voting public.So if Hillary was elected she would have been able to place 3 liberal justices on the court and it would be 6 to 3 liberal court.



What if McConnell had done his job and worked with Obama to appoint a replacement for Scalia? Or how about that complete 180 to ram through the Barrett confirmation? Without those two events, this court would look very different.

So sure, you could say if democrats did a better job of winning elections, then this wouldn’t have happened.

But you could also say that this is the result of McConnell and the Republican Party behaving like a pack of liars and cheaters who would stop at nothing to stack the courts. And that would be equally correct.

And let’s not forget the fact that more Americans actually voted for Clinton in 2016, so you could very persuasively argue that NONE of Trumps SCOTUS picks actually represent the will of the people. In fact it’s very much the opposite.
EMitch
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/06/25 23:40:10 (permalink)
The error in Roe was made in 1973, when the court thought they were legislators instead of jurists. That has been the precedent for the past 49 years, but through the course of history, SCOTUS has overturned precedents 230 times. So what the court did was right. 5 justices analyzed the constitution, found nothing that applied specifically to abortion, and when something comes up that is not covered under the US constitution, it must be reverted back to the states. That's what the ruling does. What amazes me is that 3 justices did not consider the constitution at all, and the Chief Justice wanted to consider only the Mississippi case, and not Roe as a whole. We already have 535 Legislators; we don't need 9 more.
BTW, had McConnell not blocked Merrick Garland from a hearing and appointment to the Court, where would we be now. As AG, he is so incredibly biased toward the Democrat Agenda, he refuses to enforce the law unless it applies to Republicans, and the Progressive Socialists can do no wrong.
post edited by EMitch - 2022/06/25 23:42:12

If you agree with the Progressive Democrats, that's freedom of speech. If you disagree, it's hate speech and racism.
MyWar
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/06/26 09:48:06 (permalink)
I think it’s a pretty big stretch to say garland is biased. He’s widely viewed as a moderate and even Orrin Hatch once publicly stated that he would support Garland if Obama had nominated him for the Supreme Court back in 2010. Garland is exactly the kind of appointment that gets made when you have a R controlled senate and a D in the White House because he’s a compromise pick; far less liberal than RBG or Sotomayor.

Roberts’ concurrence is also pretty wishy washy. He clearly states that he doesn’t think roe v wade should be overturned in it’s entirety. In a world where garland was on the bench instead or gorsuch, and Roberts is the swing vote, this ruling could look quite different.

Strict constitutional originalism was also used to defend segregation. So should Brown vs Board of Education be overturned as well?
ICE NUT
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/06/26 12:47:56 (permalink)
Big stretch about Garland being a moderate who you kidding. You are a master of research MyWar look him up he is a total political hack for the Democrats and progressives.You must also be using Biden Math even if he was on court and roberts being what you call wishy washy the result would have been the same. 
eyesandgillz
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/06/28 07:51:48 (permalink)
The echo chamber is STRONG the past couple of weeks....thank god I was on vacation last week....
 
 
DeadGator401
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/05 20:32:44 (permalink)
Bang Bang goes the USA. 7 More dead so far. 

Legally purchased weapon of war. Such a shame man. 
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 07:34:16 (permalink)
Face tattoo should be part of the mental background check.
EMitch
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 07:48:56 (permalink)
Porktown
Face tattoo should be part of the mental background check.



Yeah. I'd agree with that. Face tattoos tell me that that somebody is nuts. Jeezus!!! This is another mental case the local police had run into before, yet, he didn't raise anyone's eyebrows or suspicions. People that know folks like this shooter need to report it. Then, at least, if nothing gets done, it's not on them. They did their duty. These loners with 0 self-esteem delight in posting their crazy thoughts on social media, but still, it goes on.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
post edited by EMitch - 2022/07/06 07:51:26

If you agree with the Progressive Democrats, that's freedom of speech. If you disagree, it's hate speech and racism.
fishin coyote
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 07:58:36 (permalink)
And it doesn't help that his face and story are plastered all over the news and internet to inspire some other loser to try and one up him.

Nothing is Free!!
Reward equals Effort


MyWar
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 08:13:41 (permalink)
Uh… I believe the 2A says “shall not be infringed”, not “shall not be infringed (unless you have face tattoos)”.

The Facebook live video of the shooting is nuts. Those shots are popping off so fast.
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 08:20:41 (permalink)
The pro life Supreme Court will take care of this!
MyWar
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 08:30:07 (permalink)
How about that nutjob senate candidate from Missouri that’s running the RINO hunting ads? Can we take his guns away? Or stop giving him any more attention? Or maybe at the very least, not vote for him?

I’d say crap like that is a pretty big part of the problem.
ICE NUT
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 09:21:50 (permalink)
No mentions about Chicago,Kansas City,Pittsburgh,and half dozen other cities with many shootings over the 4th weekend? Just the one with the wacko white kid that again fell thru all of that states GUN laws that didn't prevent a darn thing. Gator called it a weapon of war well if you go to war with a AR-15 you will lose.The pro life supreme court will take of this Yea just like the police and courts in Highland park did huh.
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 09:37:53 (permalink)
EMitch
Face tattoos tell me that that somebody is nuts.  

At the very least, it says "I don't give a F about society".    
 
He probably wasn't looking to join a well regulated militia, with intent to secure the free state.
 
Not that we should ever consider the part of the Constitution that says "well regulated" when we talk gun rights.  Most seem to only look at "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed".  Why is this "well regulated" part considered "unconstitutional" by many, when regulations are brought up?  If you are part of a well regulated Militia, you should have the right to bear warplanes, missiles and others to ensure a free state.  That is exactly what the Constitution says.  If there were a war to break out right now and you had the choice of a 1776 cannon with unlimited cannon balls, a musket with unlimited rounds, or an AR-15 with unlimited ammunition, high capacity clips, bump stock, laser sight, and whatever modern day gadgets for it, which would you choose.  I bet there would be a good bit of 1776 cannons left in the pile and likely not one musket taken.
 
To me, it is a gray area of where the line needs to be drawn.  If we can't "bear tactical nukes" or "bear F-22 Raptors" or even "bear fully automatic fired weapons" without these not being "protected by" the Constitution, how is this modern technology "protected by" the Constitution?
 
Like MyWar said before.  The modern gun debate basically comes down to the acceptance of mass shootings if you think this modern weapons technology should not be "well regulated". 
post edited by Porktown - 2022/07/06 09:40:58
ICE NUT
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 10:05:13 (permalink)
Comparing a musket to an AR-15 is apples and oranges pork.Now if you compare an AR-15 to M16 with a selector switch to fully automatic you would chose the M16 not a semi-automatice sporting rifle.The only thing tahat makes a AR-15 look like a weapon of war is the black color and the pistol grip.Now the large capacity magazines is another issue yo don't need a 30 round clip for sporting rifle.
  As for well regulate Illinois has some of the strictist gun laws in the country and you can see how that all works out just look at Chicago!If their not enforced what good are they.
pensfan1
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 10:11:58 (permalink)
Ya because an AR-15 is used for sport..🙄.
Murrica where life begins at conception and ends on the wrong side of a firearm. Life is so grand.
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 10:14:57 (permalink)
ICE NUT
No mentions about Chicago,Kansas City,Pittsburgh,and half dozen other cities with many shootings over the 4th weekend? Just the one with the wacko white kid that again fell thru all of that states GUN laws that didn't prevent a darn thing. Gator called it a weapon of war well if you go to war with a AR-15 you will lose.The pro life supreme court will take of this Yea just like the police and courts in Highland park did huh.


Those shootings in Chicago, KC and Pittsburgh are the ones that have been swept under the rug by many for years.  Go in those communities, most of the elders have been very vocal on gun violence.  Most of those are drug/gang/crime related, retaliation, etc.  Not that they are acceptable, but I think you realized the difference before typing.  There is a little bit of a difference of these school shootings and nut jobs shooting from rooftops, places of worship, grocery stores, or wherever, just shooting innocent people.  I would hope that you agree on this? 
 
No doubt it is a mental illness thing, I agree with anyone saying this.  But it is also an ease of getting mass killing devices for these people, regardless of what it is.  Our society has been doing our best to welcome those with mental illness into regular society for decades.  The elimination of state hospitals, programs in schools and others that do the best to integrate those with mental illness into society.  For the VAST majority of those mentally ill, this has been a great thing.  There are hundreds if not thousands of different mental illnesses.  The vast majority do not lead to violent behavior.  So having this debate put a stigma on mental illness as a whole, is putting us back decades.  Between 1:4 or 1:5 adults have some sort of mental illness, likely more undiagnosed.  Having this together with easily attainable mass killing devices is a recipe for disaster as it is showing.
ICE NUT
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 10:18:03 (permalink)
pensfan where does like begin after an abortion?????100 % fatal
pensfan1
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 10:39:58 (permalink)
Only time a pro-lifer cares about a human is in the womb.. after that, said human is on their own, jus say'IN...
post edited by pensfan1 - 2022/07/06 16:44:12
MyWar
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 11:30:21 (permalink)
ICE NUT
Just the one with the wacko white kid that again fell thru all of that states GUN laws that didn't prevent a darn thing.


The old “gun laws don’t work” routine eh? Are laws only useful if they are obeyed 100% of the time?

This guy committed murder too, do murder laws not work? So should we get rid of murder laws? Do we just throw our hands up in the air every time somebody gets murdered and say “see, murder laws don’t work!”?

Or how about if you ban abortion, women will just get back alley abortions, or travel out of state, or go to Mexico to get them. So then by that same logic, abortion laws don’t work. So why are conservatives on a crusade to pass abortion laws that won’t be obeyed 100% of the time?

Am I missing something? What is the logic here? Seems like it makes absolutely no sense.
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 11:47:50 (permalink)
ICE NUT
Comparing a musket to an AR-15 is apples and oranges pork.

Exactly my point Ice.  The forefathers never said "right to bare AR-15's".  If you want to claim that they "meant" it would evolve to modern day weaponry, then why wouldn't that include an M16 or M198?  They could have never known the evolution of weaponry, yet "mean" for it in the Constitution.  And in no way possible, could one interpret "AR-15 is Constitutionally protected, M16 isn't".
 
I am glad that you agree that high capacity is not needed for a sporting rifle.  But they are flooded on the market already.  Banning them would do little in the wrong people getting their hands on them.  The pistol grip means very little.  It is the add on items that just about anyone can convert a 5 round low capacity cartridge to a 30+ cartridge mass killing device.  Taking off the stock to add a bump stock.  They are the equivalent to many of the Japanese sports cars on the market (and American ones too), that you can convert from 200HP to 600HP by unbolting some stock items and bolting on some aftermarket components.  But you need a drivers license and registration for those.
 
Just as I said about the VAST majority of mentally ill, not being a danger (when it comes to mass shootings).  Neither is the VAST majority of gun owners.  That is what makes this such a contentious subject.  I am not looking to argue to take away guns or even "assault weapons".  I think the market is so flooded with them, it wouldn't do all that much in stopping this.  The realization that there is a problem that involves these mass killing devices is a necessity in finding some sort of solution though.  Much of the pro gun crowd wants to ignore the fact that these mass killing devices are those of choice of the VAST majority of these killings.   
Porktown
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 12:10:31 (permalink)
BTW Ice, I don't mean for my comments to assume what you are thinking.  The "meant" and other comments are more general comments to what I have heard others say.  I am not looking to argue any of this.  This all should be open communication of ideas, not arguing.
 
To expand on what I said of flooding of the market, is exactly how those "tough gun laws" in Illinois, NY, DC and others, are still resulting in guns getting in the wrong hands.  These guys aren't going to Dunham's or Cabela's and buying AR-15's (although sounds like this recent nut job did and many of that type seem to do).  Most others are buying in WI, IN or from others that are smuggling into these areas.  Yes, breaking the law to do so.
 
I really don't know a solution, I don't think anyone does.  These mass shootings on innocent crowds involving these AR rifles is becoming much more frequent.  There needs to be clear acknowledgement from all of our leaders, no matter what the party, that these seem to be the weapon of choice.  Until that happens, it is exactly what MyWar said about people just needing to accept that a few mass killings of innocent people per year is worth it.
MyWar
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 12:13:17 (permalink)
ICE NUT
pensfan where does like begin after an abortion?????100 % fatal


Why are you so sure that life begins at conception? What are you basing that on?

A fetus at 6 weeks cant survive outside the womb. It’s not a sentient being capable of recognizing it’s own existence or forming complex thoughts.

What’s your earliest memory? Do you remember being in the womb at 6 weeks? Of course you don’t. At that point it’s just a mass of tissue that’s incapable of being aware of its own existence. So it’s an entirely debatable point as to whether its “alive”.

I would actually argue there is no single point at which you can definitively say “life begins”, rather it develops along a continuum; there is a point where something is clearly not yet alive, and then there is a point where it clearly is alive, and there is a rather large gray area in between.

But the truth is, nobody knows for sure! It’s essentially an unanswerable question, because there is no universally agreed upon definition as to what “life” is.

On the other hand, the people that were killed in uvalde, and highland park, and sandy hook, et al were definitively “alive”. There is no doubt about that. So why is it that you seem to place such low relative value in the lives of people who are clearly, definitely, without a doubt, “alive”?
pensfan1
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/06 12:34:42 (permalink)
24 weeks is about the cutoff for survival rate, albeit less than 50% and very disabled, for a BABY. Anything earlier and a FETUS can not survive outside the womb. It's called science.
DeadGator401
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/07 01:24:43 (permalink)
I can't even argue it anymore. It's just gut wrenching and terrible. 

Can we at least agree here - Make someone be 21 before they can purchase any semi auto loading assault style rifle. If they want it before then, have their legal guardian make the purchase for them, transfer it or something AND make the legal guardian liable for it until they're 21. (They both get charged for it if used in a crime)

I know we pick everything apart about exact verbiage, and I'm not a master weaponsmith nor a veteran, so I don't know the ins and outs. But we all know what I mean. 
At least maybe, this way, some troubled young person will have a little more time to develop mentally before making such a decision. 

Will it stop all shootings? Of course not, but man, there for sure would be a lot more children and people alive right now. 


DarDys
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Re: So what is OFF TOPIC allowed? 2022/07/07 10:29:53 (permalink)
^^^^
As odd as you may find it, I can agree to your proposal because it is not, in my opinion, overreaching. But there needs to be one stipulation.

Just like those that know guns automatically dismiss those who don’t and make statements that are factually incorrect, like referring to a semi automatic modern sporting rifle as an assault weapon or weapon of war when they clearly by definition are not (think how much credence one would put into a sports discussion with someone who starts the conversation that the Pirates would have one if they just scored another touchdown in the 3rd period), so do gun people dismiss any new gun laws, which will place restrictions, how demanding remains to be seen, but restrictions nonetheless, when current, very basic gun laws already on the books are either not enforced or enforced in a judicious manner.

Case in point, before I would sign on to the above proposal, I want to see all, as in everyone, who violates Form 7743 be penalized to the fullest extent of the law.

Form 7743 is required when purchasing any gun from a retailer and for transfer of a handgun between any private individuals. Failure to answer the questions correctly, is an automatic rejection of the sale. Lying on the form is a federal offense.

Form 7743 is used by the retailer or FF license holder to do a background check on the soon to be purchaser. Depending on the size of the store, either a call is placed to law enforcement that then runs the check or through a kiosk that directly runs the check. It is a process that takes about 5 minutes (unless phone lines are busy with the call-in method).

Question #6, I believe, asks about drug use. Hunter Biden lied on the form for that question — he was not only discharged from the military due to drug use, but also wrote about his drug use at the time he answered “no” to that question on Form 7743. Why has he not been indicted?

This is one problem with proposing new gun laws — they old ones are not enforced, depending on who you are.

Further, I could get behind the proposal if the ATF were more efficient.

I wanted to purchase a suppressor — I like the noise reduction to protect my hearing (no it doesn’t silence centerfire rifles like in the movies, but reduced the db level below the harmful range); like the reduced recoil; and like the reduced muzzle flash at first and last light, a time when deer movement is high.

In order to purchase a suppressor, one needs a $200 tax stamp for a Class 3 license from the ATF. The application has two parts — a background check via Form 7743 and a FBI fingerprint check.

As mentioned earlier, a Form 7743 background check through a kiosk takes at most 5 minutes. The fingerprints are done electronically through the same kiosk. Since I have never been fingerprinted by law enforcement (using the kiosk was the first time), it would take milliseconds to determine that I’m not in the FBI database (think how many Google results are found in a fraction of a second). So why does it take 9-12 months to get the tax stamp, which is also electronic, from the ATF?

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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