Helpful ReplyAlec Baldwin

Author
bigfoot
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2275
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
2021/10/25 16:37:21 (permalink)

Alec Baldwin

Opinions appreciated. I heard it said at least one time, maybe more as to the correct way to handle a firearm.  It is the responsibility of the person holding the weapon to always assume it is loaded unless determined by said individual that it is not. To always point in a safe direction and keep your finger OFF the trigger until ready to fire. Just wondering if anyone thinks that Alec bears any culpability in the death of the woman and man injured. A terrible thing to have happened. My heart felt sadness and prayers go out to all the family members and friends who are dealing with this, including Mr. Baldwin. I can't imagine the anguish he must be going through.
post edited by bigfoot - 2021/10/25 17:03:54

"The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
Ronald Reagan
#1
DeadGator401
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 432
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2013/07/17 22:42:40
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/25 18:09:41 (permalink)
bigfoot
Opinions appreciated. I heard it said at least one time, maybe more as to the correct way to handle a firearm.  It is the responsibility of the person holding the weapon to always assume it is loaded unless determined by said individual that it is not. To always point in a safe direction and keep your finger OFF the trigger until ready to fire. Just wondering if anyone thinks that Alec bears any culpability in the death of the woman and man injured. A terrible thing to have happened. My heart felt sadness and prayers go out to all the family members and friends who are dealing with this, including Mr. Baldwin. I can't imagine the anguish he must be going through.


Yeah, it's a pretty insane tragedy. Hard to believe a gun was loaded on a movie set. I can't imagine how he must feel, just awful.
#2
thunderpole
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 899
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2011/04/15 02:04:02
  • Location: Greenville
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/25 18:15:56 (permalink)
Sad someone had to die. But very ironic that he was a big advocate against guns. Or that the assistant director or whatever the guy who gave him the firearm, was also the same guy on set when it happened filming the crow. Baldwin should get murder charges for negligence of a firearm.

I'd rather be lucky then good,but im to good to be lucky
#3
genieman77
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2420
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/25 18:35:54 (permalink)
I haven't followed the story, so I really don't have an informed opinion of this particular incident .
 
just general thoughts as a firearms instructor, chief ranger officer  and safety nazi
 
lots of gun safety rules fail.
Not the least of which was Alec's lack of responsibility to personally check the hardware in his hand before pointing it and pulling the trigger 
 
"they" told me it was unloaded" doesn't cut it.
If it's in YOUR hand, it's YOUR responsibility too ...period 
 
..L.T.A.
 
 
 
#4
EMitch
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 816
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2015/12/24 11:48:47
  • Location: Freeport, Pa.
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/25 18:39:50 (permalink)
It's gonna be a case of negligent homicide.  Ya learn in the military, (although dad taught me when I was a kid), that when someone hands you a weapon, you must assume that it is loaded. You should point the muzzle to the ground, open the action and look in there, stick your little finger into the barrel if possible, then inspect the magazine tube (if it is a shotgun) and make sure you're not gonna jack a loaded round into the barrel. In the case of revolvers, it'll be obvious if it's loaded when you open the cylinder. I think that automatic hand guns and rifles are more dangerous. Safe gun handling is everybody's business. Always know where your target and also any obstacles are before you touch that trigger.

If you agree with the Progressive Democrats, that's freedom of speech. If you disagree, it's hate speech and racism.
#5
hendey lathe
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 830
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2007/05/30 17:49:11
  • Location: Jefferson Hills, Pa.
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/25 18:41:12 (permalink)
Though I don't care for Mr. Baldwin, that never stopped me from watching "Hunt for Red October". However, this was a more than tragic accident. Any of us brought up around any type of firearm were taught what to do & not to do with a firearm, prop gun or not. He will have to pay a price. I have no idea what that may be. And we still don't have all the information and may never will. I always remember, one of my favorite radio shows, "The John Batchelor Show" when it was on WABC radio. He would say, "The first 3 reports in war are false". With todays first with the worst media, we have to see what happens once the smoke has cleared. No pun intended, just a figure of speech. At this point I'm sure Mr. Baldwin, no matter how bad he feels and I'm sure he's in bad state right now, he'll "lawyer up". We'll see how the chips fall.
#6
bigfoot
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2275
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/25 20:12:16 (permalink)
As an afterthought, what was live ammo doing on a movie set in the first place? Anyone have an answer to that?

"The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
Ronald Reagan
#7
crappiefisher
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2971
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/25 20:15:09 (permalink)
 Actors point the gun towards the camera a good bit for the best angle view. Sometimes there is a person behind the camera without a shield. They use 3 different types of guns. ON the Crow set Lee died from a rubber bullet lounged in his abdomen.   
#8
r3g3
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2835
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2014/03/24 16:42:10
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/25 20:29:51 (permalink)
Too bad they havent mandated simple basic ed for everyone handling guns on set -or anywhere near- beginning with how to check every weapon when handed to you to be sure its empty of live rounds or any projectile above a blank.
The diff with actors is they are supposed to be shooting each other- therefore even more emphasis on safety.
post edited by r3g3 - 2021/10/25 20:36:04
#9
Porktown
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 8449
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2001/09/04 16:37:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/25 22:37:14 (permalink)
With how detailed the special effects are now days, I am rather shocked that they still use real firearms in films. I would be rather surprised if Baldwin sees any charges, unless it is protocol on a set for actors to check props for safety? If he does get charged, like mentioned before, he’ll end up with a team of attorneys that will stack the jury and at very least be able to bring up reasonable doubt among a juror or two or all…. Very highly doubt that there would be a jury of firearm safety experts.
#10
DeadGator401
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 432
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2013/07/17 22:42:40
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/26 00:16:00 (permalink)
bigfoot
As an afterthought, what was live ammo doing on a movie set in the first place? Anyone have an answer to that?


Same thought here man. What on earth was live ammo doing there? On the news tonight, I saw that allegedly - the gun was used for live shooting earlier that day. 
Mind blowing that someone didn't check that. Hell when I hunt, I check my shotgun before goes in case, after it comes out, before i leave, before i load, after i leave, after i get home, etc. 
#11
genieman77
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2420
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/26 07:59:57 (permalink)
r3g3
Too bad they havent mandated simple basic ed for everyone handling guns on set -or anywhere near- beginning with how to check every weapon when handed to you to be sure its empty of live rounds or any projectile above a blank.
 




 
we don't know that they haven't, do we?
 
what we do know, is many rules weren't followed 
 
..L.T.A.
#12
eyesandgillz
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3727
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2003/06/18 11:30:03
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/26 08:10:52 (permalink)
https://abc7chicago.com/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-movie-gun-halyna-hutchins/11162282/
 
If the information in this article is factual......  A lot of things to consider.
#13
hendey lathe
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 830
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2007/05/30 17:49:11
  • Location: Jefferson Hills, Pa.
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/26 09:08:20 (permalink)
We'll see the elitist media judicial system at work.
1st - Blame the dead guy, he or she can't defend themselves.
2nd - If that doesn't work, send it to criminal court, we'll put the guy in jail.
3rd - And if that doesn't work, they'll take it to civil court, if we couldn't put him in jail, we'll take him for everything he's got.
4th - Ignore the story, maybe it'll all go away.
post edited by hendey lathe - 2021/10/26 09:16:59
#14
MyWar
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1256
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2018/06/03 06:54:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/26 09:18:17 (permalink)
I believe Baldwin is one of the producers of the movie. So he may have some responsibility at kind of the executive level for things like the safety of the cast and crew. And there are lots of reports of the crew voicing concerns about safety, and walking off the set in protest.

As an actor I think it’s kind of a stretch to pin the responsibility on him in that capacity. Actors have a bunch of other things to be responsible for like knowing their lines, etc.. There are multiple crew members that are supposed to ensure the safety of props, and there are some pretty strict protocols that should have been followed. It sounds like there were some serious breaches of said protocols.
#15
Porktown
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 8449
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2001/09/04 16:37:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/26 09:39:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby crappiefisher 2021/10/26 12:48:48
eyesandgillz
https://abc7chicago.com/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-movie-gun-halyna-hutchins/11162282/
 
If the information in this article is factual......  A lot of things to consider.


Definitely.


If someone's job or appears to be two people's job to verify no live rounds, I doubt that Baldwin would be found at fault legally.  Regardless of normal gun safety.  Unless it is written as part of the actor's duty to check safety a third time, which I have not seen during any reporting.  Obviously, he could have went the extra step and did it himself too.  
 
If a NASCAR driver were to go into a pit stop, his crew doesn't lug his wheel on properly during a tire change, the crew chief is right there and verifies it is good, he wrecks and kills someone.  Can you really charge the driver with homicide?  Normal safety protocol for anyone driving a motor vehicle is to do a visual inspection before operation.  Should he may have pulled over immediately when he felt something was different on the car?    
 
If two workers are on a construction site.  The foreman tells them that the electrical is not connected outside feeding the building at all and an electrician confirms.  One guy accidentally bumps his coworker into an open service box and he grabs the busbar and is electrocuted.  Does the guy that bumped him get charged with homicide?  Anyone with the least bit of electrical knowledge knows to test if the electrical is indeed turned off before ever touching anything uncovered in a service box.  Should the one worker have been a bit more careful to not bump his buddy near an open service box?
 
When it is someone's job duty to have things safe.  Another to verify safe.  Rarely will a third, who's duty isn't to check if safe, be negligent.  
 
With two live rounds already accidentally fired by his stunt double, it puts even more onus on those who's job it was to check.  As well as Baldwin taking the extra few seconds to triple check.  It very well could have been something besides a live round, like Brandon Lee's tragic accident, with a blank that supposedly pushed through a squib round.  After that, supposedly protocol is to check the barrel as well.  With this happening with three shots, I wonder if they were defective blanks that were firing?  Possibly hard wadding, piece of the bent in shell broke off and shot out or projectiles in the gunpowder?  If they are indeed live rounds, the armorer, prop director and assistant director are going to definitely be under some heat.  Just as the crew chief, tire changer, electrician and site foreman would be in the examples above.  The autopsy will reveal a lot as they usually do.
post edited by Porktown - 2021/10/26 09:45:00
#16
r3g3
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2835
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2014/03/24 16:42:10
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/26 09:44:02 (permalink)
I dont care for Baldwins politics and that has no affect on my opinion.
If you accidently - and this WAS an accident- shoot someone in your home because you 'didnt know the gun  was loaded' you have criminal responsibility-- 
No matter who tells you its empty YOU are the one pulling the trigger w/o checking yourself.
Certainly not a full fledged murder charge but likely one of a lesser manslaughter or reckless activity
I think in this case there will be several persons arrested on a variety of charges.
It is disturbing to read the crew was using these same guns to shoot at cans which heightens the need to check and double check
A sad case all around
post edited by r3g3 - 2021/10/26 09:49:53
#17
thunderpole
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 899
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2011/04/15 02:04:02
  • Location: Greenville
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/26 11:46:28 (permalink)
There was also statements that the film producers walked off for unsafe conditions. Gun issues happened twice on the set. Before the shooting. Bottomline is its YOUR responsibility to check the firearm to be sure it is loaded unloaded. As a big gun advocate I always do this. In the field at home in a gun store. Its the first thing you do. There should be some sort of clause in moves that use firearms.

I'd rather be lucky then good,but im to good to be lucky
#18
genieman77
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2420
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/26 12:18:27 (permalink)
MyWar


As an actor I think it’s kind of a stretch to pin the responsibility on him in that capacity. 



 
not fully responsible, no .
There are others involved.
Possibly/probably  more culpable because that is their specific job .
Nevertheless, he bares "some" responsibility too.
 
easily preventable if "all" followed the rules of firearm safety
 
 
will he get a criminal negligence charge pass?
Prob'ly  
Civil suit pass? nope and shouldn't IMO.
 
..L.T.A.
 
 
 
#19
genieman77
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2420
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/26 13:20:31 (permalink)
what's interesting to me is...
for a guy so rabid anti-gun, you'd think he'd be super safety conscience
 
I don't like the guy.
and it's not about his politics.
I think he's a hothead pr1ck in real life
 
Having said that..
I don't think he should be held criminally at fault.
I do believe there should be some consequences though, as a lessen to others in same/similar situations 
 
 
 
...L.T.A. 
 
 
#20
MyWar
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1256
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2018/06/03 06:54:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/26 20:38:03 (permalink)
genieman77
 
will he get a criminal negligence charge pass?
Prob'ly  
Civil suit pass? nope and shouldn't IMO.
 
..L.T.A.
 
 
 


Like I said, I believe he is one of the producers of the film. In a civil suit I don’t think it’s unreasonable or even unlikely that the production company could be found liable if safety protocols weren’t being followed on the set.

But as far as an actor’s responsibility to verify and safety check every potentially dangerous element on the set? No, I don’t think the actor bears that responsibility. There are tons of dangerous situations on a movie set, particularly an action movie. Are the actors supposed to examine ever vehicle? Every safety harness? The wiring of every lighting rig? Every costume? The structural integrity of every set, so they know it won’t collapse?

There are people whose job it is to ensure the safety of the cast and crew. The person who put a loaded weapon on a movie set is criminally negligent in this case.
#21
LDD
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2948
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2004/05/20 15:02:46
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/27 10:17:53 (permalink)
r3g3
I dont care for Baldwins politics and that has no affect on my opinion.
If you accidently - and this WAS an accident- shoot someone in your home because you 'didnt know the gun  was loaded' you have criminal responsibility-- 
No matter who tells you its empty YOU are the one pulling the trigger w/o checking yourself.
Certainly not a full fledged murder charge but likely one of a lesser manslaughter or reckless activity
I think in this case there will be several persons arrested on a variety of charges.
It is disturbing to read the crew was using these same guns to shoot at cans which heightens the need to check and double check
A sad case all around


I think this is correct.  He is personally liable for his actions in this case.  All it's going to take is one lawyer to ask him if the checked to see if the gun was loaded or not.  He obviously did not, which I believe makes him liable.  
 
 
There should be a clear "chain of custody" documented in logs with a real weapon.  The weapon should be secure until it is to be issued by ONE person.  The issuing person should maintain that the gun is clear and secured at all times.  When the gun is to be issued, that should be clearly documented (date, time, names) and a cleared weapon should be issued to a person who is trained and has the legal right to carry the weapon (state/federal).   Once the weapon is issued it is now the responsibility of the person it was issued to. That person has the responsibility of the weapon. 
 
It seems to me that a gun is not a "prop" when it is fully functional.  I think this will come down to state laws in this case and the people on this set will be torn apart both criminally and civilly in the courtroom for their negligence, and they should be.  It is a tragedy, but an avoidable one.  How there could be fully operational guns, mixed with live ammo and untrained people floating around a movie set is disgraceful. The following rules are the bedrock of any gun training.  If there was a ten minute safety brief at any point on the set about the weapons they certainly heard these rules.  Apparently every single one of these rules was violated if someone was killed.  
   
The Big Four Gun Safety Rules
1.) Always treat a weapon as if it is loaded
2.) Know your target and what is beyond it. 
3.) Keep your finger off the trigger and the safety on until you are ready to shoot. 
4.) Never point the weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot.  
#22
eyesandgillz
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3727
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2003/06/18 11:30:03
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/28 09:06:05 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bigfoot 2021/10/28 11:41:58
Another big safety rule....and although you ALWAYS treat it as it is loaded, any time you are handed a weapon and told it is unloaded, you need to personally clear that weapon yourself.  And even after that, you need to treat as if it is loaded.  Firearm safety 101.   
If you are not comfortable with clearing that weapon or had no training in doing that, then you need to get that training or you don't need to be handling ANY "real" firearms, movie set or not. 
 
#23
LDD
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2948
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2004/05/20 15:02:46
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/28 10:09:42 (permalink)
eyesandgillz
Another big safety rule....and although you ALWAYS treat it as it is loaded, any time you are handed a weapon and told it is unloaded, you need to personally clear that weapon yourself.  And even after that, you need to treat as if it is loaded.  Firearm safety 101.   
If you are not comfortable with clearing that weapon or had no training in doing that, then you need to get that training or you don't need to be handling ANY "real" firearms, movie set or not. 
 


100% 
 
#24
bigfoot
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2275
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/28 11:50:34 (permalink)
Was wondering if any hunters or anyone else who spends time at the gun range or just goes out on their own property to do some plinking personally know of anyone who accidently shot themselves or anyone else? I know that it seems like every hunting season somebody gets killed or wounded while being mistaken for game, but I am interested in non hunting related instances.

"The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
Ronald Reagan
#25
LDD
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2948
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2004/05/20 15:02:46
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/28 12:13:20 (permalink)
Hunting...kid I grew up with was killed by another Turkey hunter
Hunting...whoever****Cheney shot?? I forget...
Non-hunting...little brother of a kid I graduated with was killed in a home gun accident.  Apparently by himself with a gun that discharged. 
Non-hunting...person in my small town shot himself in the leg with a pistol while in his bedroom???
 
 
 
#26
genieman77
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2420
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/28 21:02:37 (permalink)
bigfoot
Was wondering if any hunters or anyone else who spends time at the gun range or just goes out on their own property to do some plinking personally know of anyone who accidently shot themselves or anyone else? I know that it seems like every hunting season somebody gets killed or wounded while being mistaken for game, but I am interested in non hunting related instances.




 
good friend shot his foot off while exiting his truck with rifle in hand.
 
..L.T.A. 
#27
eyesandgillz
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3727
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2003/06/18 11:30:03
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/29 09:20:25 (permalink)
Know of a fatality in Warren co. a couple years back.  During rifle season, two hunters sharing a double ladder stand.  Actual details are a little lost on me but it was either climbing up or down, one had an accidental discharge (not sure if the rifle fell off the shoulder or stayed on and discharged) but the bullet struck the other hunter in the head.  An acquaintance found the dead body not long after, after the other hunter went to call for help.
Never climb a stand with a loaded weapon!  
 
#28
Fisherlady2
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2128
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/10/29 09:44:14 (permalink)
Yes it happens, even in what you expect should be the safest place to be.....
 
A very good friend, forever missed...
https://www.odmp.org/offi...olman-david-allen-barr
#29
hendey lathe
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 830
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2007/05/30 17:49:11
  • Location: Jefferson Hills, Pa.
  • Status: offline
Re: Alec Baldwin 2021/11/23 09:31:39 (permalink)
Geeee, this story sure went cold in a hurry. No surprise here.
#30
Jump to: