Helpful ReplyHot!ELK CREEK

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Porktown
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/10/19 16:08:18 (permalink)
Hey Redneck Tourist.  Nice striper in your photo.  Is that fresh or saltwater?  Conowingo?
#31
fishink
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/10/19 16:21:13 (permalink)
Not sure exactly what piece of land is being discussed here. But there is a map of the PFBC's easements available online: https://pfbc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=30d3c4cdaae74096b565da19cbc061d3
 
At MAP ID #19 there's an easement from the parking lot at Elk Park Rd all the way up stream to the trestle. 
 
This is how they describe it: 
 
Fishing Access
 

Frontage1550 feet along northeast bankPFBC Boundary Markers Description Direction Description Water NameElk CreekRiver MilesElk-2.649 rtLatitude42.007150Longitude-80.353200 
There's another easement above the trestle, then another after that, and 2 more after that. They stretch all the way to Route 18.
#32
fishink
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/10/19 16:26:36 (permalink)
genieman77apples and oranges.
You're trying to equate public works projects to recreation opportunities 
 
specific to subject,   using an arcane commerce  law designed for right of way, not public recreation 
 
BTW, deemed navigable or not, you can't walk or wade   posted property in Ohio.
 
You can float your boat, yak or canoe down it, but if you drop anchor to loiter, you're trespassing

 
Sure but who would uphold Ohio as a model. For anything? 
 
As anglers the superior model would surely be Montana with its stream access law. 
 
"The Montana Stream Access Law says that anglers, floaters and other recreationists in Montana have full use of most natural waterways between the high-water marks for fishing and floating, along with swimming and other river or stream-related activities."
 
Having fished in Montana, Pennsylvania and Ohio, I would say that Montana with its multitude of public water is indeed superior. 
 
Of course an avaricious landowner may disagree. 
 
post edited by fishink - 2021/10/19 16:44:26
#33
DarDys
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/10/19 16:30:15 (permalink)
Now, if the Erie tribs were in Montana, then that wound be relevant. They are not. But they are in PA and OH, so those laws are what matters.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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fishink
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/10/19 16:32:48 (permalink)
ConococheagueSure I understand what the law is. I am questioning why the law is?

 
Because it was written by and for landowners. And the rest of us accepted it. 
 
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fishink
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/10/19 16:33:51 (permalink)
DarDys
Now, if the Erie tribs were in Montana, then that wound be relevant. They are not. But they are in PA and OH, so those laws are what matters.



It is relevant because rights emanate from people. People can look at alternatives (like the Montana SAL), or even think up new ones, and then enact them where they live. Including people in Pennsylvania. 
post edited by fishink - 2021/10/19 16:46:05
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Redneck Tourist
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/10/19 17:35:54 (permalink)
Porktown
Hey Redneck Tourist.  Nice striper in your photo.  Is that fresh or saltwater?  Conowingo?


 
Thanks. It's actually from Cape Cod Canal.
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WVDepscritch
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/10/19 19:07:55 (permalink)
As I said earlier trees and rocks painted and signs along river, I for one am not going to argue with land owner or the law 
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genieman77
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/10/19 21:49:04 (permalink)
fishink
 
As anglers the superior model would surely be Montana with its stream access law. 
 
 




 
LOL...I love that example
a state that's larger than Pa.
but there's more people on Erie trips in a weekend  than the  whole population of the state of Montana
 
 
you're a special interest group that thinks it's your right to recreation on someone's property 
 
 
..L.T.A.
 
 
 
 
#39
grampsdamamp
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/10/19 22:21:11 (permalink)
If it was my land I would post it all. These fisherman that come out have zero respect for others property. Ive seeing people ****ing and craping on others property. They throw their line and trash everywhere. Hell I was at the mouth of ELK not to long ago and there were several others and this guy just pulls his waders down, whips it out and starts ****ing. Don't get me wrong there are a lot of good guys that actually care and help clean up and keep it nice for everyone BUT there are just as many ****holes.  I love steelhead but whatever, ban it from the access down! Im over these people taking way more then their limit, like aren't they bad for you in excess?? High levels of mercury? I don't care, if I see you doing anything, littering, fighting, open lewdness, snagging, keeping more then the limit.... I will turn you in, ill wait and get your license plate and call the GC. Im a rat all day.. Ive been doing this over 20 years and I'm over all the idiots ruining it for the good guys
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crappiefisher
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/10/19 23:30:46 (permalink)

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rippinlip
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/10/21 15:59:32 (permalink)


You should have been here yesterday.............. Streams are made for the wise man to contemplate and fools to pass by [Sir Izaak Walton]
#42
Rickerd
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/10/25 17:30:42 (permalink)
People, don't bring OHIO into this. Ohio is different because most of the stocked streams are "navigable" and the laws that determined them when the state was founded have never been changed. I will leave it at this since a few of the lawyers I have argued this with cannot dispute thiese facts. 
 
Rickerd
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WVDepscritch
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/10/25 18:35:15 (permalink)
Ref the post by Fishink, there may be a easement somewhere but fish and boat comm. says the property is posted, both sides of creek
#44
fat eddys
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/11/06 21:46:16 (permalink)
i’m new here, have not figured out how to start new post.
I lost my brand new simms water proof sling along with an expensive GAVIN reel last week on elk creek in Girard. I offer a nice reward for its return. please spread the word
#45
jfel5472
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/11/07 08:26:35 (permalink)
Have you tried posting on a Steelhead Facebook page also?
#46
silvercoho
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/11/12 18:59:58 (permalink)
A fisherman claiming to be with the DEP confronted a land owner for putting his leaves into Elk Creek. The land owner now says he will post the creek from fisherman. I don't get it, leave the man alone. This ruins it for all of us. Leaves fall into the creek naturally. Why harass the land owner?
 
 
#47
Mountian Man
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/11/13 08:52:53 (permalink)
silvercoho
A fisherman claiming to be with the DEP confronted a land owner for putting his leaves into Elk Creek. The land owner now says he will post the creek from fisherman. I don't get it, leave the man alone. This ruins it for all of us. Leaves fall into the creek naturally. Why harass the land owner?
 
 


Cuz he with da DeP with an erie stamp.

#leaftheditchalone

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Veni Vidi Vici...
#48
WVDepscritch
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/11/13 09:35:52 (permalink)
What stretch was lost this time?
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WVDepscritch
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/11/25 09:02:26 (permalink)
Anyone hear anything positive about the Trestle hole after the posting ?
#50
fishink
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/12/13 17:31:54 (permalink)
WVDepscritch
Anyone hear anything positive about the Trestle hole after the posting ?




Might depend on how you look at things.
 
I was up there a few weeks ago. I walked up to the end of the easement and had a good laugh at purple paint on pole trees and rocks in the middle of Elk Creek.
 
I also saw 10 guys fishing both sides of the tressle hole. :)
#51
WVDepscritch
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/12/13 18:28:49 (permalink)
Don't know if that is good news or not, game warden told me directly purple paint means posted ! Maybe land owner had a change of mind ?
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fishink
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Re: ELK CREEK 2021/12/18 09:52:08 (permalink)
WVDepscritch
Don't know if that is good news or not, game warden told me directly purple paint means posted ! Maybe land owner had a change of mind ?




Don't think the landowner changed his mind, if the purple paint and signs are any indication. But the dozen or so people fishing it every day don't seem to mind :)
#53
WVDepscritch
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Re: ELK CREEK 2022/03/12 21:34:49 (permalink)
Any news about the posting around the Trestle ?
#54
pensfan1
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Re: ELK CREEK 2022/04/28 09:56:38 (permalink)
Anyone know what the mouth looks like? Wondering if it's open and suitable for smaller boats to get out to the lake? Opener is a little over a week away.
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WVDepscritch
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Re: ELK CREEK 2022/10/03 16:09:39 (permalink)
Again any news about the Trestle being still posted??
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Redneck Tourist
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Re: ELK CREEK 2022/10/05 06:51:54 (permalink)
So this past spring when I was helping stock trout in the local creeks here, I spoke to a couple of the fish wardens about the property rights and fishing situation in Erie. The one guy, who said he himself goes fishing there in the fall every year, was trying to tell me that Elk creek is navigable and it's legal to fish anywhere there if you're within the high water mark. I knew that wasn't right and I argued the point, which seemed to irritate him, so I left it go. The other guy was more knowledgeable, having patrolled there at some point in his career. He said that Elk is not considered navigable, but should be. He said any waterway that was ever in history used for commerce in the sate of Pa. is supposed to be considered navigable and a public right-of-way. He said Elk creek was absolutely used in this way long ago and can be proven, and the only reason that it's not regarded as navigable now is because of the wealthy landowners with property along it. He says if it ever went to court, and someone had the money to press the issue, the laws there would have to be changed because Elk satisfies all legal requirements for a navigable waterway.
I myself have no intention of trespassing there. Last year I did well enough just fishing the crowded holes on lower Elk that I didn't have any reason to go anywhere else. I picked up some litter up at the tree farm and tried to leave the area better than I found it. I did actually see a fish warden for once, just driving by in his SUV, but he didn't stop where I was. Seems to me that as long as everyone accepts things as they are, there won't be any changes either to existing laws or enforcement. The ones with deep pockets probably prefer it that way.  
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Redneck Tourist
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Re: ELK CREEK 2022/10/05 06:59:10 (permalink)
WVDepscritch
Again any news about the Trestle being still posted??


 People have been fishing there from what I am hearing. If you want to fish that area and are concerned about it, you can always just go to the little parking area above the trestle bridge on the other side and wade down to it. It's not a very long walk at all, it's easy access. I myself am more concerned about the construction project these fools have going at the conrail tubes. I'm hoping they haven't ruined the fishing there for this year.
#58
Porktown
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Re: ELK CREEK 2022/10/05 10:08:46 (permalink)
Conococheague
The ones with deep pockets probably prefer it that way.  

The law always works differently for those with the deeper pockets or attorneys themselves. If what is saying is correct, the landowners can just tie it up in court for decades. Not saying is correct or not, probably depends on how a single judge interprets the language and rather possible that judge is well connected with the landowners. Appeal, add new evidence, and the hundreds of other ways to delay, which often has those attempting to change it, run out of money or patience in the process. PA does not allow to sue for court costs in property matters, so makes it even easier for those with deep pockets. At least in real estate, not sure if this would be different. There is a rather famous guy in the news a lot in the past 6 or so years that has been doing this court bleeding of others for decades...

Who really has $100k and years of time, to change public access for fishing? Can buy an Erie boat/camp instead with that cash and enjoy those years. If the landowner is an attorney, they can do for free and write off all expenses. No real loss for them. If not an attorney but deep pockets, they likely have an attorney already working for them that costs them next to nothing to do, which they will likely write off all expenses as well. There are completely different sets of rules for the wealthy, middle class and working poor. Aim to be wealthy and accept the middle class rules. Most likely not going to be wealthy if you didn’t come from wealth. That is part of the rules.
#59
fisherofmen376
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Re: ELK CREEK 2022/10/05 21:30:45 (permalink)
It's still posted, yes.  

"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
Matthew 4:19
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