Pittsburgh Steelers ?

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LDD
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 08:29:47 (permalink)
So, I realize what it is to be a die hard fan.  The blinders are sometimes on.  The Steelers were a 12-4 team last year.  They don't suck and Ben is what he has always been, the up and down guy with a huge upside when he plays well, although now he is aging.  From a rational, outsider perspective, you guys DO NOT want to see Haskins or Rudolph.  You saw Rudolph, that guy sucks.   Haskins might give you some versatility and if he comes in he will probably be successful for a game or so but once D coordinators adjust, he's garbage.  Your defensive injuries are a big concern and I do agree with that the Najee Harris pick wasn't necessarily a reach but I feel like your team could have been better served taking a developmental first round QB.  Paying Watt was a necessity, that guy is a game changer and is probably the most dynamic defensive player in the league right now besides Aaron Donald.  I didn't watch the game the other day but if your defense doesn't take an early hit with injuries I'm guessing that game comes down to the wire.  
 
Bubby Brister??!! Oh man, that guy was HOT garbage! Hahahahaa...I did like Louie Lipps though!
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snagr
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 08:52:00 (permalink)
Yup that 12-4 looks great on paper, but those 4 L’s came in the last 5 games. Plus that absolute dumpster fire of a first half against the Browns in the first half of the playoff game. A lot of the offensive woes were really exposed in those 5 losses, including #7’s limitations.

The problem with Ben is that the downs are more frequent and longer lasting the past 4 or 5 seasons and the huge upside last year and so far through two games is more rare than it ever was.
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Porktown
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 09:14:30 (permalink)
Lipps was a legit great player on a crappy team.  They actually had a bunch of them (Rod Woodson & Mike Webster are all time greats), many other really good players then too.
 
Yes I did want to see Rudolph or Haskins.  I am a realist.  To me, Rudolph or Haskins are perfect rebuilding QBs and where this team should have been to start the season.  Rudolph, prior to getting decapitated, was pretty dang good.  His first game back from getting his head sewn back on, he looked horrible and that is what everyone seems to grade him on.  He has looked relatively good since.  I'm not saying he is going to take them to the Superbowl or even playoffs.  Neither is Ben and his ridiculously high cut of the salary cap though.  I do think right now, Ben is still a better QB than either.  But the O line is a bunch of backups and rookie mid round talents, that are playing like what they are.  Rudolph and Haskins can get them to the same ~.500 that Ben can with the situation they have.
 
#1 rule to successfully rebuilding, is building a dominant O line, which involves drafting the best guys you can and giving them a year or two to develop.  THEN, you get your QB of the future.  If you have cap space, get a stud RB.
 
If no salary cap, definitely pay TJ.  I am not doubting the guy's ability at all.  If they would have went the route of high OL draft picks instead of RB & TE, sure, pay him.  If they would have went the route of cutting Ben and rolling the dice with Rudolph/Haskins, pay him.  Even if their defense were to remain healthy all year, they are still only clawing to get into the playoffs with their offense, regardless of who is at QB.  Don't get me wrong, like Snagr, I will watch them and hype up how awesome it is to watch their dominant defense, just as I did when Cordell Stewart was manning a pathetic offense 18 years ago (at least they could run the ball then).
 
ANY team that has their franchise QB playing beyond his years, are on the cusp of rebuilding.  I am a realist, that would prefer them to do it now.
 
Don't be so mad that your team got beat by a mediocre team...
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Porktown
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 09:15:32 (permalink)
snagr
Yup that 12-4 looks great on paper, but those 4 L’s came in the last 5 games. Plus that absolute dumpster fire of a first half against the Browns in the first half of the playoff game. A lot of the offensive woes were really exposed in those 5 losses, including #7’s limitations.

The problem with Ben is that the downs are more frequent and longer lasting the past 4 or 5 seasons and the huge upside last year and so far through two games is more rare than it ever was.


#34
LDD
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 10:44:00 (permalink)
Porktown
 
Don't be so mad that your team got beat by a mediocre team...


oh man...whatever...I knew it was a bad draw to play the Steelers the first week.  Only week of the season Ben is completely healthy and the Steelers with a healthy and well rested defense.  
 
Don't get me wrong, I love to watch the Stillers lose as much as any Browns or Raven's fan, but I'm also a realist and I never understood the shade Ben gets, besides the fact he's a rapist.  I mean, he's probably gonna be a HOFer and you guys want to see Rudolph??  Good luck with that. You're right Pork, cut Ben, go with Rudolph.  Then you'll see what "rebuilding" is really like.  My team did that for 20 years.  It's not even close to fun.   
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 11:28:13 (permalink)
You are looking at this as black and white. 
 
This is not about Ben, TJ, Najee, etc.  This is about the salary cap and the Steelers front office trying to bandage their biggest weakness.  They can't address it, when they spend their money elsewhere.  I noted before that I do feel Ben likely has 5 years of physical ability to be a good NFL QB.  That is ONLY the case behind a good O line and have some decent weapons to throw to as well as a running game to take some pressure off.  Throw a good defense in that mix and he could be a superbowl contending QB.  Without a good OL (doesn't need to be dominating), none of that will happen.  He isn't, "probably" a HOFer, he is most likely a first ballot HOFer, if not, will get in soon after.  
 
I have no idea how Buffalo runs/ran their organization.  But most likely they made some bad moves, that took them 20 years to rebuild.  Obviously, luck has a lot to do with it too (can't predict a key guy will get injured, etc).  One of those bad moves, is holding onto the past for too long.  Not sure if that was one that the Bills did with Kelly or not?  That is exactly what I am concerned about though, as many teams have done exactly that.  It rarely ever is just one guy (QB) that makes a good team.  Many great QBs are drafted into organizations that can't get out of their own way and crush those guys.  Ben barely threw the ball his first few seasons and they consistently did pretty well.  The Steelers are pretty far from the team they had when he was drafted.  If that was the current team, they would be favorites to win the Superbowl.  They just aren't that team.
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 11:55:48 (permalink)
Porktown
You are looking at this as black and white. 
 
This is not about Ben, TJ, Najee, etc.  This is about the salary cap and the Steelers front office trying to bandage their biggest weakness.  They can't address it, when they spend their money elsewhere.  




Well, based on the actions of the front office they must feel that Ben has years left too.  If you want to address the QB situation and the cap situation then the organization needs to take a shot and draft a first round QB to develop.  I think Ben would be invaluable in developing a new kid.  Then, you have a QB and a rookie contract which doesn't break the bank.  If you never take that flyer on a kid then you're stuck and eventually, you're really stuck.  
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 13:25:57 (permalink)
I’m not at all saying to not take a first round QB. But if you do it before you address the OL, you are setting them up to fail and beat up. Since they made the big money signing of Watt, they don’t have the cash to go into FA for the OL. They passed on this years draft, so likely need to do next year. The two mid round OL hopefully will be good in a year or two. Add a first round and mid round OL to the mix and should be solid. Rudolph is a third round pick with a few years of knowing the playbook and familiarity. Haskins a first round and learning behind Ben now. One possibly could be the answer, but likely not. Having them be the QB while the line is rebuilding is fine by me. Pick your QB in the draft after.

Learning behind someone would require that current QB to be receptive. Ben may or may not be. A first round pick is coming in with a good pedigree. Good coaching and set up to win (good OL and WRs/TEs) is much more important than sitting behind a great. If not, then Rudoulph and or Haskins would be ready to take over, no?
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snagr
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 13:30:32 (permalink)
LDD
 
I think Ben would be invaluable in developing a new kid.  




Mmmm . . . I wouldn't bank on that.  He's not as outwardly petulant as an Aaron Rodgers when there are things he doesn't like, but he is very adept at using the local media to take passive aggressive shots at coaching decisions and sometimes the play of his teammates.  And the passive becomes less subtle as he gets older.  Recent young QB's have spoken of some helpfulness from him, but I bet when the time comes and he knows his successor is here that that changes.  
 
Can we interest you in a Haskins for Allen trade, and throw in a 4th rounder?  
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Porktown
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 13:42:38 (permalink)
snagr
 
Can we interest you in a Haskins for Allen trade, and throw in a 4th rounder?  


We should get the 4th rounder, since Haskins has done the invaluable sitting behind a probably HOFer...  
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 14:26:57 (permalink)
No thanks on the Haskins trade (aka...EJ Manuel 2.0)...been there done that.  Josh is taking some shots over the bow right now in Buffalo.  The mafia expects more.  The older fans only expect wins.  
 
When you take a QB high in the draft the plan is hopefully to sit him for a year at least unless he's a real generational talent.  You can begin to build the line around him then and scab together good journeymen in free agency over the next couple of years.   I don't follow Ben enough to know what kind of mentor he would be on the field.  I guess I just expect him to see the inevitable in the coming years and since he's been a Stiller for his entire career I'm assuming he's a Stiller forever and would be comfortable grooming the next guy.  But, he may be on the Brady diet and have delusions that he could last forever and get a Subway deal.   If only his knees weren't made of corn mush.  
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snagr
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 14:39:13 (permalink)
LDD
But, he may be on the Brady diet and have delusions that he could last forever and get a Subway deal.   If only his knees weren't made of corn mush.  



That Subway commercial is a great one!  
 
Ben's on the injury report today with a left pectoral injury.  I'm sure he didn't get it from maxing on bench yesterday.  Or at any time in his career.  
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Porktown
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 15:23:48 (permalink)
He almost always appears on the injury report after bad outings.  Because, it obviously wasn't him at 100%...
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 15:35:55 (permalink)
Porktown
He almost always appears on the injury report after bad outings.  Because, it obviously wasn't him at 100%...


Nailed it!
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Porktown
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 15:44:48 (permalink)
That stuff was tolerable his first few years, but nauseating after.  Do you remember when his dummas wrecked his motorcycle?  I swear that half of Steelers nation was ready to finish him after that.  
 

#45
pensfan1
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 16:39:08 (permalink)
If Ben is out, Rudolph starts. Then after about week 6 or 7, when the O-line gets him beat to chit. Haskins mopps up for the rest of the year. Maybe they end up picking top 10 for a change? Not real sure what the QB crop looks like this coming draft, but they better get a replacement for 22-23 season.

Kinda sad that after 2 weeks, Steelers and fans are relegated to looking past this whole season. Pittsburgh better get used to this thinking. Stillers and Pens stars are finally aging out of contention. Hey it's was a fantastic near 20 year run. Be happy I say. Some cities/franchises never see one super star in a generation. We've had plenty round here n'at..
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Porktown
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 17:08:00 (permalink)
Highsmith has a pulled groin.  Hayden, Watt and Bush all pulled their groins.  I suggest no more team circle jerks.
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DarDys
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 17:25:53 (permalink)
Serious question — are several different players having the same or similar injuries (in this case groin injuries) a function of an issue with their strength and conditioning routine attributable to their strength and conditioning coach(es)?

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 20:16:39 (permalink)
Thas a good question☝☝.... Makes you wonder for sure..
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ICE NUT
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/22 06:36:20 (permalink)
They watched a jeffrey Toobin video!!
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/22 07:38:58 (permalink)
DarDys
Serious question — are several different players having the same or similar injuries (in this case groin injuries) a function of an issue with their strength and conditioning routine attributable to their strength and conditioning coach(es)?

Certainly puts the strength coach in question.  Either that or something with their equipment (no, the other equipment)...wrong cleat size leading to poor traction?
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bigfoot
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/22 08:17:18 (permalink)
🐍 snakebit.

"The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
Ronald Reagan
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genieman77
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/26 16:17:59 (permalink)
 
bigfoot
🐍 snakebit.

 
 
Tiger bit
...ouch 
 
Go Browns!!!
 
 
..L.T.A.
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/26 20:25:34 (permalink)
They aren’t beating the Packers next week, unless every player is healthy (including Tuitt) and Rogers gets banged up and unable to play. Ben will need to not throw it directly to a Packer DB a few times as well. They will be completely out of it by week 6-7, which is good for fishing, but will be crap weather by then. Maybe at that point, people will realize that they should have admitted to rebuilding. They are 4-5 years in the hole from stupid moves. Could easily be back into things in a year or two if they would just admit to rebuilding and do it. I almost feel bad for season ticket holders for how worthless their overpriced investments will be.
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bigfoot
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/26 20:45:01 (permalink)
Looks as though as Pork would put it, the hen house was in full production today.

"The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
Ronald Reagan
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Porktown
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/26 21:26:11 (permalink)
Yes sir. I’m betting another 6-7, if not more by the end of the season. They were lucky to shell shock Buffalo in the first game. If they had a rematch right now, I’m betting Buffalo by 14+.

To make things better, it looks like the Pens are following the same disastrous path. Pirates haven’t been a major league team for years. PGH sports is in a bad situation for a few years. Kind of a bummer for kids looking for at least one successful team to follow.
#56
Irisheyeball
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/27 12:11:52 (permalink)
Eli is gone.
Philip Rivers, too.
Time for Ben to join them.
Brady is a unicorn.
Aside from an inexperienced OL and some other rookies forced to start, it looks to me that the QB is out of synch with whatever it is that Canada is trying to run.  Plus, he looks like a partially anesthetized Frankenstein out there.  (too harsh?)  Rudolph is better than him right now, so, get on with it.  
#57
pensfan1
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/27 12:38:27 (permalink)
He's all warshd upn'at
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Porktown
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/27 12:48:50 (permalink)
You know all too well, they are going to let Ben do whatever he wants.  It will go to no huddle and Ben audibling every down.  Get them playing Ben ball.  Maybe win 4-5 games doing it.  Roughly the same amount of games they'd win with Rudolph running Canada's play book and having the rest of the team perfecting the blocking schemes, routes, formation adjustments and other things that would help build for the future.  
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LDD
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Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/27 12:58:01 (permalink)
Irisheyeball
 
Brady is a unicorn.


He absolutely is, but did you watch the game yesterday??   I saw bits and pieces of the Rams/Bucs game and what stood out to me was how often the Rams were hitting him.  Brady has lost games and endured the inevitable questions about his longevity.  He has overcome all of that, every time.   The one consistent in his career was that he has not been hit very often in the last 10 years.  I'm here to tell you, if the Bucs are going to let him get hit, he won't last much longer, unicorn or not.  
 
A guy can hope...
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