Pittsburgh Steelers ?

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bigfoot
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2021/09/08 17:34:19 (permalink)

Pittsburgh Steelers ?

Just curious as to any opinions as to how they are going to do this year, and who do you think will take top spot in their division.

"We should take as a maxim never to be surprised at current difficulties no more than at a passing breeze, because with patience we shall see them disappear. Time changes everything."
St. Vincent de Paul 
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    pensfan1
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/08 20:08:24 (permalink)
    Steelers are closer to 6 n 11 rather than 11 n 6. As far as division winner, who knows. Baltimore maybe Cleveland.
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    LDD
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/09 08:41:17 (permalink)
    Their o-line will play a huge role.  If they play well and keep Ben healthy then they'll be highly competitive with their D and Najee.  If not, they will have big problems.  Their D will keep them in games.  They need to pay TJ and quit messing around.  Although, I hope he sits on Sunday cause I'm a Bills fan...GO BILLS!!  
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    genieman77
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/09 10:01:52 (permalink)
    cleveland 
     

     
    ..L.T.A.
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    Porktown
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/09 10:26:59 (permalink)
    Agree with O line to an extent.  Some issues have been addressed, but rarely do they get fixed in a year.  Ben really needs to stop being Ben if they want to go far, which is very unlikely this far into his career.  He can't pretend that he is the O coordinator any longer.  There might be some times during games that he can do hurry up and be able to read a defense and catch them off guard, but it can't happen nearly as often as they have done in the past 10 years (how many Superbowl victories in that time span?).  Last year is evident that D coordinators figured out how to defend against it.  Ben looked like hot garbage the last few weeks of the season.  You can blame that on the O line, but ask any O linemen from pee-wee to the pros if they'd rather pass protect (and get beat up) or run block (and beat people up), chances are 90% would say they like beating up others.  The other 10% probably prefer it too, but are good at the pass protecting, and know what pays the bills.  Ben ball requires an O line to constantly be beat on, there is little wonder of how a bunch of old dudes couldn't handle it for a whole season.  A bunch of new guys mixed with old dudes and back ups, aren't about to do it either.  Not sure if there is an o-line capable of doing it for a full season and playoff run.  They have been teasing us with run heavy OCs for the past 10 years, but Ben stripped them of their gonads, I expect Matt Canada to have a vag by the end of the season too.  WRs and TEs are solid and should be able to light it up, even if they do go 50/50 run/throw.  It is an ego thing and I don't think Ben can control it.
     
    Defense appears good, but question marks.  Like any defense, if the front 7 stuff the run and able to provide pressure, it really dictates how the secondary looks.  If the front 7 can't do, then I am not too confident in any CBs, besides Haden, who is on the wrong side of 30 and off season contract news could either mean playing his rear off for open market $ or show why the Stillers didn't lock him up.  I am not fully confident in the front 7.  Tuitt is a major issue.  He is a beast, but knee injury and death of his younger brother has him dealing with some depression issues.  I really do feel for the guy on a personal level, but as for what it means to their defense is huge.  Wormley is not Tuitt and I don't see their D line being the run stuffing beast it would be with Tuitt there.  If Bush is back to being Bush, excellent.  Not sure about Schobert, heard he is great addition, but we'll see.  Spillane should get some reps with how well he played last year, but pedestrian at best in what I saw of him in the preseason.  Hopefully the spark he had last season will return.  OLB looks solid.  There will be no week one sitting of Watt, besides to catch his wind.  They did a good job of addressing the loss of Dupree.  Maybe not fully replaced, but shouldn't see too much of a drop off.
     
    Special teams appears to be good enough to not lose games for them.
     
    If Ben allows the O coordinator to do his job, Ben doesn't look like Ben of the last few weeks of last season, Tuitt returns and is himself, Bush is back to being Bush, the O line is at least average, Sutton, Layne and others are able to step up in the secondary and no major injuries they can do well...  To me, that is too many IFs to align in their favor.  They supposedly have one of the toughest schedules.  I see them capping out at 10 wins even with everything going well.  I doubt they lose more than 10 games, unless a complete collapse.  I'm guessing more in the 8-8 range (again).  They won't make that step until the university builds them their own stadium on campus.  Oh, wait, different team.  Hard to get these consistently mediocre teams straight.  
     
    The team needs to be smart in their financials and stop mortgaging the future like they have for the Ben era.  It made sense while Ben was young, not at all now.  I wouldn't pay Watt, even being possibly my favorite player.  Unless they make a deep run in the playoffs, this needs to be Ben's last year.  This is a team that needs to rebuild and will need the money to do it.  Watt is not winning them a Super Bowl with Mason Rudolph, Dwayne Haskins or a rookie QB.  They don't need to be 8-8 for the next 10 years.  By the time they have a new QB groomed, Watt will be on the downside of his career, tying up too much money.  He will get his money in the market and possibly with a contender.  They are pretty deep at OLB with guys that might not be POY type guys, but very likely keep you in games.  Rebuilds are tough, but they require putting money where you need it.  Going 2-14 isn't a bad thing if you have a solid plan to get you to consecutive 10-6 level in a 2-3 year rebuild process.  Build the O-line to not only protect a young QB, but allows Harris (or anyone) to run all over you.  Personally, I would have went OL instead of Harris and started the rebuild last year.  Harris was a "lets take another shot" pick.  Maybe it works.  He too will likely be on the back side of his career when the Stillers have a QB capable of making a good run.  I think Tomlin is too much of a "players coach" to be able to do a rebuild with this team.  From all accounts, the guy genuinely loves his players and his "the standard is the standard" doesn't work with QBs.  I just can't see him being able to rebuild with so many personal relationships on the team, guys that battled hard for him but he has to cut to make room for money.  I could see him doing a rebuild on a different team where he doesn't have those personal relationships.
    #5
    bigfoot
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/10 02:20:01 (permalink)
    😯 wow! Quite a response. Very analytical. I think Bens best days are behind him. The o line? Hmm, very questionable.

    "We should take as a maxim never to be surprised at current difficulties no more than at a passing breeze, because with patience we shall see them disappear. Time changes everything."
    St. Vincent de Paul 
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    Porktown
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/10 08:25:15 (permalink)
    bigfoot
    😯 wow! Quite a response. Very analytical. I think Bens best days are behind him. The o line? Hmm, very questionable.

    Yeah, I could have went with the, "probably 8-8", but what fun is that?  Especially on this message board that has seen better days...  Maybe 5 people will read what I wrote and spark some debate. 
     
    IMHO, I think they are making moves to set up for mediocrity for the next 5-10 years, just as they have been for the past three.  They were by far the worst 12-4 team in NFL history.  Always matters where you finish.  Their finish was far below mediocre.
     
    No doubt his best days are behind Ben.  I do think Ben physically has another 5 years in him if he could change his mindset and doesn't get injured.  Tough telling a Hall of Fame QB to change the few things that he was really good at, that he is still physically capable of doing.  What made him the HOF QB that he is, was extending plays, which is beyond his ability now.  He did very well in the hurry up as well.  The college fast paced offences did well for a year or two in the NFL, then completely shut down, I don't think any teams use any longer.  Tweaking that a bit is the blueprint to shut down Ben and every team knows it now.  Hopefully he knows it too.  Sprinkling it in when he sees they have the package in that would struggle with it, definitely.  Forcing it, like he did to end last season, will force the Steelers to make him retire...
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    psu_fish
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/10 10:10:54 (permalink)
    10-7. Feels so weird with the 17th game. 
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    bigfoot
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/10 20:05:50 (permalink)
    genieman77
    cleveland 
     

     
    ..L.T.A.

    I think the Browns will take the division .
    Ravens second, then the Steelers then the Bengals.
    post edited by bigfoot - 2021/09/11 09:33:11

    "We should take as a maxim never to be surprised at current difficulties no more than at a passing breeze, because with patience we shall see them disappear. Time changes everything."
    St. Vincent de Paul 
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    Porktown
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/12 16:15:59 (permalink)
    Big win by the Stillers. I don’t see same results in January if they meet again. Defense on both teams dominated. Stillers just happened to force more takeaways this time.

    Stillers O line did not look horrible against one of the best defenses in the league. A lot of ifs remain, but great start against a super bowl favorite in their imitation Highmark Stadium.
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    LDD
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/13 12:14:17 (permalink)
    Yup, big win for the Stillers...congrats.  That punt block/return was huuuugge...****it!  Our o-line got shredded, you guys have a stud D-line and it was concerning that our d-line was inept in the second half and we couldn't pressure Ben at all.  He had time and made some nice throws.  Stiller D is scary good.  Our offensive game plan was horrible as well.  I hate, hate, hate the empty sets, especially against a great D that can get pressure.  
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    pensfan1
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/13 16:34:19 (permalink)
    Very surprising result to say the least..Kinda an astonishing stat is Ben didn't throw a ball over 20 yards. D totally dominated that game, especially in the 2nd half. If Ben has to be Peyton Manning in Denver so be it. Manage the game, lean on the defense and don't turn it over. Let's just hope Watt n Company can do that all year.
    #12
    bigfoot
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/13 16:59:55 (permalink)
    Many years ago I heard something from someone, maybe a coach say , the gist of it was a dominant defense and a ball control offense is the way to go if you want to win a lot of football 🏈 games.

    "We should take as a maxim never to be surprised at current difficulties no more than at a passing breeze, because with patience we shall see them disappear. Time changes everything."
    St. Vincent de Paul 
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    psu_fish
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/14 08:02:28 (permalink)
    If the OL can jell and give Harris some running lanes, and Ben some time to make some deeper throws, this team could be sneaky good.
     
    Heyward is great but he never gets national media attention. 
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    pensfan1
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/14 08:36:13 (permalink)
    Ravens took a huge steaming dump lastnight at Vegas. Enjoy it fellas. Dem Stillers gonna win the division. Lmao.
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    pensfan1
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/14 08:41:06 (permalink)
    Speaking of the Ravens. There is a local kid, Geno Stone ( New Castle grad) that has worn 26 since Pee Wee football. Lev Bell offered him 50Gs to give up his number. Now, its a good deal for Geno. First 50Gs is nuttin to sneeze at. Secondly, Bell will only be with Baltimore 1 year. It's a win win for Stone. He'll get the cash this year and his number back next year.
    #16
    LDD
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/14 14:00:34 (permalink)
    pensfan1
    Very surprising result to say the least..Kinda an astonishing stat is Ben didn't throw a ball over 20 yards. D totally dominated that game, especially in the 2nd half. If Ben has to be Peyton Manning in Denver so be it. Manage the game, lean on the defense and don't turn it over. Let's just hope Watt n Company can do that all year.

    As a Bills fan and a lifelong "follower" of the Steelers, this game scared me.  The Bills have a tendency to not be well rounded on offense.  Daboll (OC) has specific game plans and if they don't work the adjustments aren't good.  Knowing how good the Steeler D was I didn't like the matchup.  Your D is for real.  On the other hand, your run blocking was not good.  That either bodes well for the new Bills' D line or poorly for Najee and your run blocking schemes.  Time will tell.  If Ben is healthy, you guys will make lots of noise.  Although, let's not forget last year's EPIC Stiller meltdown!  
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    Porktown
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/14 14:46:41 (permalink)
    LDD
    Your D is for real. 
     

    Yes and even better with a healthy Tuitt.  Still not sold on the secondary.  But if a QB has his helmet dented in a few times and pants full by the end of the first quarter, he usually helps make the secondary look good. 
     
    A few key holding penalties kept the game within striking distance.  Not saying they weren't holds, some were blatant, others often get called or don't get called.  If some of those weren't called, a different game.  Some refs allow, which will end up happening in a game or two this season, which will likely expose the secondary.
     
    LDD
    On the other hand, your run blocking was not good.  That either bodes well for the new Bills' D line or poorly for Najee and your run blocking schemes.  Time will tell.  If Ben is healthy, you guys will make lots of noise.  Although, let's not forget last year's EPIC Stiller meltdown!  

     
    Exactly why I still think they should have went OL in first two picks of the draft.  Harris is a beast, if on the right team and able to avoid the injury bug, a HOF caliber talent.  Unless the Stillers got extremely lucky with their mid round draft pick rookies (3rd and 4th round) that they are starting, they will look like mid round draft pick rookies starting...  Most of the others were back ups a season or two ago, but could have gotten better...  Get a stud OL and you can put just about any NFL RB (all of whom were studs in college) in and they will do just fine.  It also gives Ben a bit longer to do his thing.  Their OL was great 2-3 years ago.  Conner was a Pro Bowl RB behind that line. 
     
    Edit - In this match specifically, the Bills defensive front is solid and overall, probably top 5 defense in the NFL (behind the Stillers).  So, jury really is out on if they got lucky with two middle round OL pickups.
     
    Their meltdown has a lot to do with Benball and how it beats the heck out of the OL.  I expect the same meltdown this year if they stick with a similar pass to run ratio, but likely sooner than last year.  Benball will work for a while and good to mix in (it is what they moved to in the second half of the game).  Hopefully they are able to use the pass to set up the run, instead of going predictable on first and second down "smaaash maahth football" like they had done with Fichtner and the first half of the game.  It doesn't matter how you get those runs in, you just need to give those OL guys a chance to put the beat down on, rather than take a beating all day.  It also has the defensive front guessing a bit more which always helps the OL.
    post edited by Porktown - 2021/09/14 14:49:43
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    pensfan1
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/19 14:42:33 (permalink)
    I'm listening to the DVE broadcast. Havta say, Hillgrove does call a good game.

    ADD**** although he has said Oakland about a dozen times... guess old habits die hard. ****
    post edited by pensfan1 - 2021/09/19 15:32:48
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    pensfan1
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/19 16:54:10 (permalink)
    So ya, Pittsburgh takes their yearly loss to Oakll.... er LV Raiders. Now with 4 Defensive starters out, and Johnson going down on that stupid pass last play of the game, I'm not sure what can be done for them not to be that 6 n 11. Let's hope I'm wrong..

    Pork.... any thoughts???
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    Porktown
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/19 20:16:56 (permalink)
    If Bush and or Hayden are out long, they are done. Regardless of TJ White. Offense is making every defense look good. That said LV defense punched the Ravens running back, Lamar Jackson in the face repeatedly. So, I want very confident in Stillers O line doing much. Because, they can’t even beat Western Michigan. Wait, might be confusing them again with the other consistently mediocre football team. Long season, but pretty sure we’ll all be safe to fish on Sundays in 3-4 weeks.
    #21
    Porktown
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/19 20:23:34 (permalink)
    Watching MNF pregame. When did they let Ray Lewis out of prison?
    #22
    pensfan1
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/19 20:24:41 (permalink)
    Ah that Ray Lewis.. he was a killer LB
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    genieman77
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/19 21:23:38 (permalink)
    Dayum 
    Hope Jarvis Landry will be alright 
    He's leadership we need on the field
     
    if defense can get it together,  you folks in Stiller country will be fighting for a wildcard spot 
     
    Cleveland is "fo-reel"  for the first time in 20 years 
     
    ..L.T.A.
    #24
    bigfoot
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/20 16:19:50 (permalink)
    Looks as though the Steelers laid a egg vs the Raiders. I heard the talking heads of Pittsburgh sports are of the opinion that Derek Carr is a mediocre quarterback at best and that he outplayed Ben. Can't judge for myself as I didn't watch the game just saw a snippet or two during the local news broadcast.
     
     
     

    "We should take as a maxim never to be surprised at current difficulties no more than at a passing breeze, because with patience we shall see them disappear. Time changes everything."
    St. Vincent de Paul 
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    Porktown
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/20 16:27:49 (permalink)
    One of many from the Steelers' hen house.
    #26
    snagr
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/20 16:47:30 (permalink)
    bigfoot
    Looks as though the Steelers laid a egg vs the Raiders. I heard the talking heads of Pittsburgh sports are of the opinion that Derek Carr is a mediocre quarterback at best and that he outplayed Ben. Can't judge for myself as I didn't watch the game just saw a snippet or two during the local news broadcast.



    Carr isn't usually in the Elite discussion among the talking heads, but he's been around and productive.  Waller will make any QB look good.  
     
    Very obvious that Ben's best years are behind him.  Understandably with his age, lack of mobility, and subpar O line play the last few years, he often looks to me like he has happy feet back there and it appears to affect his decision making.  
     
    Towards the end of last season a big deal was made about the lack of an intermediate passing game in the middle of the field and the question was whether he still had the arm to throw bullets 15-20 yards downfield in tight windows, as opposed to most of his longer throws that are usually near the sidelines on back shoulder throws or jump balls.  And if he had the time behind that O line.  Couple late games and the playoff game showed he still has the arm at times.  That intermediate passing game has been missing again the first two games unless he gets a tight end 1 on 1 down the middle. 
     
    Rudolph and Haskins have the arm to do that.  But would they have the time?  And do they have the decision making ability to do it behind that O line that it would make a difference?  
     
    The defensive injuries yesterday were huge.  Like most teams, depth at that many positions would create issues.  Alualu sounds like he's done for the year, and with groin injuries to Bush, Watt and Hayden those could be a week or 6 weeks.  Even so, with the lack of a run game and intermediate passing game, this is probably a .500 team.  If the D gets and stays healthy they might steal a few games to make them a wildcard, but with Ben at QB it'll be another one and done in the playoffs or maybe a second round game.  Dunno if Rudolph or Haskins would change that, but at this point, I wouldn't be upset if either got a shot.  Ben has been an all time great in Pittsburgh, and will continue to do just enough to make you think he's still got it, but I don't think he can still carry a team.  
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    Porktown
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/20 22:17:47 (permalink)
    snagr
    Dunno if Rudolph or Haskins would change that, but at this point, I wouldn't be upset if either got a shot.  Ben has been an all time great in Pittsburgh, and will continue to do just enough to make you think he's still got it, but I don't think he can still carry a team.  


    If they would have had the kahunas to cut him last year, I’d agree and wouldn’t have an issue giving those two a year to battle it out. Since they are paying Ben, they have to ride him out. You can’t go to Rudolph or Haskins, unless Ben looks like hot garbage. Definitely a possibility, but I think Ben is safe until they are completely out of it.

    Horrible personnel decisions by the Steelers in not cutting Ben, drafting Harris, not addressing the O line and paying way too much for an edge rusher. You can make the wrong decision on half of them, doing all four is going to put them in a financial bind to not be able to pay for quality depth anywhere. Their defense is really good when the starters are healthy. The talent gap between their starters and backups is huge, or at least looked that way in the preseason and this last game. I guess one bad thing about having excellent starters. There is no teams that ever avoid injuries completely, so maybe it is smart to have some really good starters and good backups, rather than excellent starters and not very good backups?
    #28
    snagr
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 00:33:30 (permalink)
    Porktown
    You can’t go to Rudolph or Haskins, unless Ben looks like hot garbage. 

     
    Yep.  Ben would probably have to be dumpster fire hot to get replaced.  Only way Rudolph or Haskins gets a start or meaningful snaps is if 7 is injured.  
     
    If it wasn't #7 on the jersey, I think a lot of people would look at about 6 of the 8 quarters worth of the QB play so far this season for the Stillers and at least call it some level of garbage compared to what's expected from an NFL QB.  
     
    At any rate, I'll continue to watch and continue to get sucked in.  No matter how bad the Stillers are, I just can't give 'em up.  And fortunately in my lifetime, their worst hasn't been catastrophically bad and is measured in a season or two and not decades.  
    #29
    Porktown
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    Re: Pittsburgh Steelers ? 2021/09/21 07:04:48 (permalink)
    Exactly my thoughts.

    Although, the mid 80s weren’t the best. It was actually when I really got into watching them though. Frank Pollard, Eric Peagrim, Bubby Brister, all hall of famers in my mind! Even then, they weren’t a complete mess.  A glimmer of hope in late 80s.  Pirates were actually good then, so even a glimmer of hope with another team that was doing well, always helps a fanbase imagine the best.
     
    ***  My bad, Peagram was mid 90s when that glimmer of hope turned into reality (although loss to the Cowboys), but those years were good overall. 
     
    You can replace Peagram with a number of players.  Probably the legendary Merril Hoge, because Steelers fans love above average white dudes...  I was one that loved the guy too.  I have to add a spot to a legend to every kid in Steelers nation that dropped an easy catch in school yard ball - Dwight "Hands of" Stone!!!  Any time my kids drop a ball playing catch outside, they get the "hands of stone".  They have no idea what it really means.  That dude was lightning fast though.
     
    1987 didn't really count with the strike/replacement roster.
     
    We did have Heisman Trophy winner Mike Rozier drafted in 84, too bad it was with the Maulers or could have really turned around the mid 80s.
    post edited by Porktown - 2021/09/21 08:27:03
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