Helpful ReplyChauvin trial

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Porktown
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2021/04/01 14:28:42 (permalink)

Chauvin trial

I’ve been watching a little of this. Definitely not going to be the slam dunk case that I thought it would be. From what I have seen so far, likely a conviction of excessive force of some sort, but not sure they will get the heaviest charges. It is hard to defend someone kneeing on a neck for 9 minutes. But at this point, I see a reasonable doubt that his actual death was from it. The medical experts will be key.

I know the Trumpers have slammed CNN during his term and I agree with them that CNN jumped on every little thing. Yet not doing the same with Biden. To be fair, there isn’t nearly as much to jump on... Watching them on this trial is kind of disturbing though. They are doing their best to beat down and dismiss the defense, without even seeming to listen to it. By no means am I saying Chauvin shouldn’t be convicted, but I think the way they are covering this is horrible. If there isn’t a conviction and things burn, they are partially responsible in my opinion.

Floyd was hospitalized for an overdosed a few months earlier on the same junk (speedball) that he was on during the arrest. The way they cover it, he had an addiction to opioids which makes people mellow and is a disease, trying to buy whatever with **** money and resisting arrest is excusable? They were trying to say that since he didn’t die from a drug overdose before, there is no way the drugs would kill him? Sorry, but most overdose deaths are from users that have used many times and didn’t die, but then died that one time... It is just horribly misleading journalism. Report all of the facts and let people make up their minds. If the facts make Floyd look like a POS in the process and Chauvin one too, then report it that way.
post edited by Porktown - 2021/04/01 14:33:26
#1
r3g3
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 14:52:16 (permalink)
As  past LE for over 28 years with over half of that in a very active narc unit I saw the video of what happened and was sickened.
I dont give a hoot what he did prior to the kneeling  or what drugs were in his system and I dont care what other kind of excuses they try and make--
Its BS efforts at trying to say it was the right thing to do and it was not.
 
post edited by r3g3 - 2021/04/01 14:56:41
#2
DeadGator401
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 15:16:13 (permalink)
I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to practicing law and court trials and whatnot. 
From what I've read, it looks like Chauvin is being charged with Second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. 

Apparently "To get a conviction on the second-degree murder charge, prosecutors must prove that Chauvin caused Floyd’s death while committing or attempting to commit a felony. In this case, they will argue that the knee to the neck is that felony.
For the third-degree murder charge, prosecutors would have to convince the jury that Floyd’s death was caused by an act that was obviously dangerous, though not necessarily a felony."

Feel like it's pretty obvious to most normal people that this was murder. As R3 said above, fake 20 dollar bill, drugs in system, whatever - nothing required that abuse of physical force. A man crying for his mother as his neck is being crushed is far from resisting. Chauvin murdered Floyd essentially in front of the whole world. I really hope justice is served here. 
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Walleye jigs
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 15:43:11 (permalink)
I totally agree with r3, the man was handcuffed behind his back, 3 other cops on site. This was murder plain and simple and a lot of GOOD COPS are paying the price. When he's convicted he should be hung by the neck till dead in public.
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MyWar
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 16:08:05 (permalink)
I haven’t watched the coverage but I’m not going to be the least bit surprised when the cop gets acquitted. That’s how these incidents play out every single time.
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Porktown
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 16:36:07 (permalink)
He is definitely getting charged with something. But like Gator said above, the charges by definition, from what I have seen today, I can definitely see any of the jury not being 100% sure this falls completely into the charges. It only takes one of them. I think it is about time to write legislation of excessive force, to eliminate the grey area.

I’ve been watching the trial on HLN, during breaks, CNN is the next station up. How CNN is leading the narrative is ridiculous. Report the facts. If there isn’t a charge that fits, report that. Report that maybe it is time to put in laws. HLN discussion has been much better without the leading. CNN and others reporting like this are going to cause $Bs in property damage and possible loss of life, if he isn’t convicted with a charge that would be extremely hard to prove without a shadow of doubt.
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Irisheyeball
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 17:08:41 (permalink)
Keep in mind that we have only heard the prosecution’s case so far. Not unusual that the coverage would focus on how well it’s doing. We’ll hear the defense’s side soon. From all indications, they will be focusing on causality, ie, to what degree were Chauvin’s actions responsible for Floyd’s death? As far as what essential question is in front of the jury, it’s all about Chauvin. No matter how it’s presented, George Floyd (and his life choices) is not on trial.
post edited by Irisheyeball - 2021/04/01 17:09:44
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Porktown
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 17:31:45 (permalink)
Irisheyeball
Keep in mind that we have only heard the prosecution’s case so far. Not unusual that the coverage would focus on how well it’s doing. We’ll hear the defense’s side soon. From all indications, they will be focusing on causality, ie, to what degree were Chauvin’s actions responsible for Floyd’s death? As far as what essential question is in front of the jury, it’s all about Chauvin. No matter how it’s presented, George Floyd (and his life choices) is not on trial.

No doubt on case so far. Speaking to that, the SGT testimony is proving what I think all of us agree, the use of force was excessive.

The defense is trying to claim the cause of death was from the drugs and heart condition. Not sure how they would do that without bringing it up at the trial?
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FishinGuy
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 17:32:05 (permalink)
Porktown
It is just horribly misleading journalism. Report all of the facts and let people make up their minds.

But it was CNN. I know you know journalism is not their game. Cable news is a scourge on this country. All of it.
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FishinGuy
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 17:37:49 (permalink)
Also, regardless of coverage, if that pos doesn't end up in prison for a good long time, the whole country is gonna pay for it. You thought the blm stuff was bad before? You'll forget any of that ever happened after the flames die down from the next round.
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Porktown
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 17:49:53 (permalink)
Hopefully the network coverage is better.

Agree 100% on him getting a slap on the wrist or off and things are going to be insane. Why I am so disgusted by CNN basically fanning the flames.
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Irisheyeball
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 18:26:14 (permalink)
No doubt the defense is going to go to great lengths to implicate Floyd. FWIW, read Floyd’s toxicology report, including the notes. Interesting. In my opinion, the defense is up against a powerful fact situation that will be impossible to overcome.

Let’s say that I’m despondent. Everyone knows it. I write a suicide note then leap off a 50 story building. On the way down and prior to impact, in an amazing feat of marksmanship, LDD blows my head off. What was the cause of death?
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Porktown
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 18:44:24 (permalink)
I read the report (county autopsy) after they interviewed the girlfriend. After her interview is when I initially posted. I can definitely see a jurist or two, seeing reasonable doubt after listening to that testimony and seeing the report.

Like you said about LDD’s remarkable marksmanship, would that knee restraint kill a person without Floyd’s medical condition? Is what the defense is hoping at least a jury won’t be able to clearly decide.
post edited by Porktown - 2021/04/01 18:45:42
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Porktown
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 18:47:00 (permalink)
BTW. ABC News had much better coverage, not only showing one side.
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Irisheyeball
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 18:59:02 (permalink)
Pork: your question about “would that knee restraint kill without...”. With all due respect, is not the issue. It may sound like the same thing, but the issue is “was the knee responsible for Floyd’s death?”
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r3g3
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 19:10:37 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby CAPTAIN HOOK 2021/04/21 14:41:13
Was in a lot of fights on the street with a lot of arrestees who just wouldnt give up.
High on drugs or alcohol, just committed a crime for which they knew they were going back to jail and wanted to get away, or just felt like superman--made no difference.
Was a street narc and cop in a small very busy city with a decent crime rate and stuff happened regularly.
 
When the fight was over and if I was so fortunate to have won, which was not always the case as my med records likely show- lol, and the person was handcuffed or otherwise under control,
IT WAS OVER.--
A good cop has to know when to turn that switch on and off as soon as the situation changes---PERIOD.
 
To me what actually caused death is certainly important but just as important is continuing to overpower someone who no longer needs over powering is not reflective of any reasonable application or justification of an officers job.
 
 When its time to stop --YA STOP.
post edited by r3g3 - 2021/04/01 19:18:47
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Irisheyeball
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 20:12:20 (permalink)
The body cam video showed the extent of Floyd’s resistance: they couldn’t get him into the back seat “cage” area due principally to the guy’s sheer size. He wasn’t so much fighting the officers as he just seemed to be frozen. At one point the officers opened the other door and dragged him into the car. Why wasn’t that sufficient? Close both doors and you got him.
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Porktown
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 20:51:21 (permalink)
Irisheyeball
Pork: your question about “would that knee restraint kill without...”. With all due respect, is not the issue. It may sound like the same thing, but the issue is “was the knee responsible for Floyd’s death?”

I understand the difference in what you are saying. What you are noting is to prove murder 3 or manslaughter charge, which I think is most likely going to be proven. What I am noting is going to need to be proven that it would kill anyone, to get a murder 2 charge, plus proving it was intentional.

I want to be 100% clear, I personally am not arguing that it wasn’t excessive. From watching the video alone, I would say it appeared to be intentional murder. But the video isn’t the whole case. Getting him on murder 2 is going to be far more than a slam dunk that I thought it would be going into the trial.

Anything less than murder 2 and we’re likely to see things burn. CNN and the like are trying to sway public opinion that “it should be murder 2”. Maybe it is. Maybe there should be other charges specific to law enforcement?
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pensfan1
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/01 21:10:18 (permalink)
Am I in the right place??? A civilized, intelligent respectful conversation, here??? Wow. Well done I'll keep reading. 👍it up
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r3g3
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/02 08:00:04 (permalink)
The knee may well have not been the actual cause of death but it was highly improper at that point in the arrest.
Because of that our whole nation is involved in what should have just been another arrest  on a street that goes unnoticed.
post edited by r3g3 - 2021/04/02 08:40:13
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drawde
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/02 10:41:16 (permalink)
Since there are two carotid arteries in the neck it is highly unlikely to stop all blood flow to the brain.  Floyd was complaining of not being able to breath from the beginning of the arrest.  Do any of you know the number of officers killed by handcuffed suspects?  Learn all the facts!
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r3g3
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/02 11:08:13 (permalink)
Got my sternum cracked once by a guy who actually managed to get his cuffed wrists from behind him to the front while he was in a conference room being processed.
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DeadGator401
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/02 12:38:01 (permalink)
drawde
Since there are two carotid arteries in the neck it is highly unlikely to stop all blood flow to the brain.  Floyd was complaining of not being able to breath from the beginning of the arrest.  Do any of you know the number of officers killed by handcuffed suspects?  Learn all the facts!



Beginning of the arrest - or beginning of the 9 mins of a knee on his neck?
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Porktown
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/02 13:06:30 (permalink)
This weather is horrible! I have watched way too much of this trial. One thing for sure, defense attorney is one thing I could never fight my morals enough to do. But this guy is pretty good at gathering details to make a case for reasonable doubt.

Imagine some of his (or others) other cases of guys that commit premeditated murder, which I can’t see this being. Not sure how anyone could take on the profession of defending career criminals.

Back to work on Monday, so second hand info for me. I know not to tune into CNN. I would recommend HLN for what seems to be unbiased conversation on the details of the court happenings.

Again, not arguing that what actually happened went too far!!!
#24
bigfoot
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/05 14:47:40 (permalink)
Read the autopsy report. It would appear that the police officers actions were NOT a contributing factor in Mr. Floyd's death. Me thinks the chances of Mr. Chauvin's being acquitted are as remote as me being able to fly. And, I ain't got no wings. At least, not yet.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
Martin Luther King Jr. 
#25
Timachro
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/06 17:28:04 (permalink)
IMO the officer should be charged with murder because he didn't need to be kneeling on the guys neck for that long. I think he had a personal vendetta against him.
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BloodyHand
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/06 22:28:49 (permalink)
^^^^^^^^^
Little mans syndrome?.........
 
BH
 
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pensfan1
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/15 10:30:51 (permalink)
Chauvin decides not to testify. Thas a shocker..🙄
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Walleye jigs
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/15 10:36:27 (permalink)
The picture of him on Floyd's neck, the way he's posed and looking around reminds me of a redtail hawk intend on killing his prey.
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pensfan1
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Re: Chauvin trial 2021/04/15 11:05:51 (permalink)
He still has the ballz to sit in court and smile. This guy is toast, IMO. Maybe not murder but definitely no chance for acquittal.
#30
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