What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!!

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fallschirmjaeger
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/12 16:02:42 (permalink)
No sense in bickering amongst ourselves...the real issue is what is the ACOE going to do to rectify their heinous error?
#31
outasync
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/12 18:13:34 (permalink)
The gauge froze and for 24 hours the lake was 3 ft lower. According to eyewitness accounts in news stories the lake was almost back to winter pool and no dead fish were visible. The lake didnt drain totally out
#32
solitario lupo
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/12 22:05:32 (permalink)
anzomcik
Lets hear your plan, please dim it down for my sake since your backhanded vague comments are way above my head. 


Not asking for a plan. Just saying you would think the fish commission would try to do something. Since we pay a lot of money for those fish. Not saying they have to go swim for the fish.
Now my real plan is having to find another lake to fish.
#33
eyesandgillz
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/13 17:48:16 (permalink)
Tammarack would have been the best option due to proximity but I think it happened so fast, there wasn't a lot that could reasonably be done.  Trying to get to the fish left in the lake streambed and holes probably wouldn't have worked due to the mud and muck....
No way am I putting any blame on the fish commish on this one.  
#34
CRAPPIE_SLAYER
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/16 20:48:47 (permalink)
outasync
The gauge froze and for 24 hours the lake was 3 ft lower. According to eyewitness accounts in news stories the lake was almost back to winter pool and no dead fish were visible. The lake didnt drain totally out


These " eyewitnesses " obviously didn't see what I saw a week ago when I drove over. I'll give them that the lake didn't "totally" drain out. The creek channel looked to still have water. Probably just 20ft or so lower than winter pool, based on many years of fishing the hardwater.
#35
eyesandgillz
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/16 22:06:15 (permalink)
outasync
The gauge froze and for 24 hours the lake was 3 ft lower. According to eyewitness accounts in news stories the lake was almost back to winter pool and no dead fish were visible. The lake didnt drain totally out



Wrong, wrong, so wrong.  Just asking, did you even look at the pictures that were posted in this very thread?  
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solitario lupo
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/17 11:39:37 (permalink)
eyesandgillz
outasync
The gauge froze and for 24 hours the lake was 3 ft lower. According to eyewitness accounts in news stories the lake was almost back to winter pool and no dead fish were visible. The lake didnt drain totally out



Wrong, wrong, so wrong.  Just asking, did you even look at the pictures that were posted in this very thread?  


I saw pictures on other sites where they had the kids playing around in the middle of the lake bed pretty much. That’s why I was just thinking how much B.S. that there are blowing around. The funny thing is weren’t there supposed to be ice fisher people fishing. Could they have fallen threw the ice if it collapsed. They could have killed them.
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SteelFishinMusky
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/23 21:12:51 (permalink)
 Ok, as most of you know there is a huge "Headquarters" office building on the hill that overlooks the lake at the dam. Can't remember if it is PA Fish Commission or Corps of Engineers??? But, its one of them and it has employees working outta there. However, IT DOES'NT MATTER!  There is NO WAY IN HELL, that the lake could drain without somebody knowing or recognizing it right away.  Its just NOT humanly possible!!!  Yinz seen the above pictures.  The D4MN lake was drained!  Don't fall for the ruse or it being downplayed.
 
 There HAS to be more to the story. A gauge freezing and the lake draining to just the main channel is JUST NOT possible.  I can see it happening at some desolate location, but this lake is ALONG A MAIN ROAD and has the people IN CHARGE OF IT, overlooking the entire lake, out of their office window at least 8 hrs a day, every day.
 
 Removing, reports from a Facebook page, not alerting the public or an attempted "cover-up, is also JUST AS INCOMPETENT & criminal.  All "just cause" for a lawsuit. The fishing public needs to know the truth. People shouldn't be "tricked" into spending their hard earned scarce dollars planning a trip there, NOT KNOWING what happened.  I DON'T understand trying to keep it quiet either. Probably trying to protect the 2 or 3 businesses from losing their fisherman clientele. EVEN the businesses have a responsibility & should be going public. If, I went and spent my hard earned scarce dollars at a business there, and they flat out didn't tell me, or tried to "DOWNPLAY the significance of this, I would be PI$$ED & never return, doing what ever I could to "CALL them out" on social media.
 
 This forum, is almost, the ONLY place you can find anything referencing this incompetence & borderline criminal act.  And what, this "thread" gets like 15 people viewing it? This needs to be on the local news in Pittsburgh, Erie, etc. I know, this is the first I heard of it & I have family in the area.
 
Someone, some organization needs to be held accountable. This is, as bad as, the incompetence & disaster that was Tamarack & Somerset lakes. It's 2021 NOT 1947.
 
Update: Seems there are articles out there when you do a Google search: "Woodcock Creek News". They all say the same thing; officials are being quiet, info being removed, & NO fish kill observed by these official orgs, but no reports to confirm that from the general fishing public. I did see an article that stated one of the open drains was 3 FT by 3 FT and the other was 8 FT by 4 FT. Both big enough to suck out, just about all the Musky, Smallmouth & other species. Here are 2 of the articles I found:
 
https://www.timesonline.com/story/sports/outdoors/2021/03/19/outdoors-woodcock-creek-lake-discharge-devastates-fishing-spot/4748813001/
 
https://alleghenycampus.com/19711/features/woodcock-creek-lake-drains-21-5-feet-in-accident/
 
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#38
outasync
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/24 07:47:13 (permalink)
You do understand that those areas in the pictures are waterless during winter reguardless? The areas that have water were all frozen over. They always bring it way down for winter pool. The lake drained out over night. Pictures from people that live there showed the ice cap which hid the lake draining. The ice also hid what the exact effects of the draining would be.
#39
eyesandgillz
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/24 08:56:17 (permalink)
I don't understand your post.  Are you defending the Corps covering this up?  Are you saying the fish are fine and Woodcock will be normal fishing this year and the next say 5 years?  Are you trying to say something else?  The ice didn't cover up the water level at the dam outlet.  When you can see it all the way down to the channel, no matter how much ice coverage there is, you know there is an issue.  
And how do they let a lake completely drain overnight?  I would think several people would be fired or at least severely reprimanded over this.  I don't even fish Woodcock but still makes me angry to see fishing opportunity taken away due to a grievous mistake like this.
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solitario lupo
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/24 12:15:56 (permalink)
outasync
You do understand that those areas in the pictures are waterless during winter reguardless? The areas that have water were all frozen over. They always bring it way down for winter pool. The lake drained out over night. Pictures from people that live there showed the ice cap which hid the lake draining. The ice also hid what the exact effects of the draining would be.

So you really think those pics are normal when there should be a lake but it is a creek just running threw. So they open the dam up at night and thousands of gallons of water just drain like that.
#41
outasync
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/24 12:24:03 (permalink)
Summer pool for woodcock is 1180 winter pool level is around 1160 so yes those pictures are what you find there every year during winter.
What happens sucks but no one has any idea what exactly is going to happen once the lakes refilled. Alot of fish could of survived in the remaining pool at the dam or went up the channel as it was still intact. The only positive is french creek should be on fire this year with the abundance of fish if the acoe is correct in the fish being swept out. If not it will be restocked along with tamarack and be fine in short time
#42
anzomcik
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/24 12:41:29 (permalink)
outasync
You do understand that those areas in the pictures are waterless during winter reguardless? The areas that have water were all frozen over. They always bring it way down for winter pool. The lake drained out over night. Pictures from people that live there showed the ice cap which hid the lake draining. The ice also hid what the exact effects of the draining would be.



I know what your saying, and for a very long time people have shown concern to see woodcock at winter pool. I know the point your trying make...
 
However this is different, the lake was drained to the extent that most if not all the major game fish swam out the dam. From the people I personally had phone conversations with in the PAFC they fear the lake is starting from scratch. Like hitting the reset button.
 
I live 20 minutes from the lake, walked the lake bed right after the reports came out,  I will not be fishing there for several years
#43
outasync
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/24 13:58:05 (permalink)
I havnt fished it in a few years. The kayak takeover made me go elsewhere. When 20+ kayaks launch at once and not a single one has a life vest even on board yet the pfc boat seemed to ignore them but checked us twice that day. And the lovely aroma of the illegal substances they were passing around wasnt a issue to the pfc either.
#44
CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/24 14:47:45 (permalink)
Don't worry there's still a few fish left and boats are already on the lake ! It's fine .....
 


#45
eyesandgillz
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/25 16:30:06 (permalink)
outasync
Summer pool for woodcock is 1180 winter pool level is around 1160 so yes those pictures are what you find there every year during winter.
What happens sucks but no one has any idea what exactly is going to happen once the lakes refilled. Alot of fish could of survived in the remaining pool at the dam or went up the channel as it was still intact. The only positive is french creek should be on fire this year with the abundance of fish if the acoe is correct in the fish being swept out. If not it will be restocked along with tamarack and be fine in short time



I think anzomcik clarified better than I could.  There was NO pool at the dam....drained, completely......
starting from scratch.....
#46
SteelFishinMusky
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/26 00:20:53 (permalink)
Outasync, nice fish....is that an Ohio or PA fish?  I understand some of what what you are saying. And I guess, now thinking about it, if it was froze over at the time, I guess I can see where the water under the ice could drain & the ice obscure it. But it still pizzes me off, because SOMEBODY had to notice it before it got as bad as it did. If anything, someone downstream. You drive over a bridge everyday that is barely a crick & all of a sudden its the Monongahela river flowing by, should be a clue, there's something wrong.
 
Anyway, I'm more pizzed at the Fish Commission; only because of their 1947 management style that they won't change for anything. For instance, can anybody tell me the reason for drawing the lake down in the winter anyway? At Canadohta they draw it down every winter, which I think is also bull$h1t. At Canadohta, they use the excuse to protect the million docks around it. Bullcrap! Pull your dock for the winter or repair it every spring if it gets damaged. There are lakes in every other northern state, with docks, that don't get lowered. They all survive!  So what is the PAFC saying? Its better to pull the water out away from shore, the weedbeds, & into the center of the lake. The cereal bowl (bathtub) portion with NO structure/protection for bait-fish/food-chain/food source. The bigger fish gorge themselves all winter on the "no-where to hide" food source. BUT, the food chain takes a HUGE HIt, is decimated every winter & the PAFC wonders why Canadohta's nickname is the dead sea.
 
Can't use the "dock" excuse at Woodcock. Not a dock to be found. So yinz are saying, its drawn down every year anyway, leaving a thousand Tiger muskie free range over the food chain in a much smaller unprotected area (just the main channel).... In this case, with the frozen gate, EVEN if a single fish didn't wash out, the food-chain will be decimated and an up the chain reaction & consequences for years to come.
 
And in the spring, isn't it about the same time they close the Gates to slowly fill the lake back up again, then for 40 miles downstream they have 30 trout fisherman azz to azz fishing around every 8 FT pothole they can find, instead of spread out over a nice wide, slow, deep flowing stream?
 
Wait till all those "drain holed" Tiger Musky gorge themselves on all those PA fisherman bought 9 inch trout they try stocking, this year, below Woodcock. Wonder whose gonna get to the trout first, the Tiger Musky or the kids?
 
Don't even get me started on their 1947 game fish management style. You would think they never leave PA or never read/learn about other states successful programs for their game fish. After traveling around & fishing around the United States while in the military, you wouldn't believe some of the awesome game-fish programs that are out there. And none of them decimate a lakes food chain every winter. Yinz all have to Google the "Texas Big Bass Program" if you don't know what it is. You'd be amazed at what that program accomplishes. And they get it mostly paid for thru corporate donations.
 
 Enough venting for tonight. We all have to get the PAFC on a 2021 track, is all. Who knows, maybe there is some fabulous reason they do what they do that out weighs good fish management. Their trout program is A+, but PA fisherman deserve better than some 11 inch trout and a handful or 12-14 inch dink bass per year.
post edited by SteelFishinMusky - 2021/03/26 16:28:49
#47
anzomcik
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/26 07:05:48 (permalink)
Woodcock is an army corp lake, not owned by the FC (the fishery is managed by the FC). its #1 soul purpose is flood control. The same as UC Dam and Keystone lake. The draw down in the fall is to prep for the spring run off. The dam is operated by a gate to control flow, WC gets instruction from pittsburgh on what to set the gate at on a per instruction basis. 
 
The FC has no control on the lake level, so your issue with the FC on lake levels is misguided. Lake level is based on public safety down stream, sometimes that means way down stream like the mississippi. 
 
Also there are only pure breed musky stocked in WC and the stream, i knew what you were trying to say with tigers. 
#48
outasync
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/26 09:21:32 (permalink)
Wonder if they will report their findings this year when they do the surveys.
#49
outasync
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/03/26 09:22:42 (permalink)
And that fish is actually from woodcock. Late october fish on the point straight across from the boat launch.
#50
muskefisher
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/06/08 08:09:28 (permalink)
I was there that day it drained and all I saw was the creek channel. The ice was laying flat on the lake bottom. It’s June already and can’t find any info about what they are going to do.
#51
snagr
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/07/08 11:32:37 (permalink)
any reports on the impact of this to the fishing in the lake this spring and summer?  
 
my boys and i have fished the outflow a few times in the past month and have had some fun there.  a really diverse fishery to say the least!  i have no plans to fish the lake, but was just wondering if the drawdown had a bad impact on fishing there.   
#52
eyesandgillz
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/07/08 13:43:45 (permalink)
snagr
any reports on the impact of this to the fishing in the lake this spring and summer?  
 
my boys and i have fished the outflow a few times in the past month and have had some fun there.  a really diverse fishery to say the least!  i have no plans to fish the lake, but was just wondering if the drawdown had a bad impact on fishing there.   




I thought you were supposed to use your sarcasm font when you posted something like this!  
#53
snagr
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/07/08 15:35:52 (permalink)
eyesandgillz
snagr
any reports on the impact of this to the fishing in the lake this spring and summer?  
 
my boys and i have fished the outflow a few times in the past month and have had some fun there.  a really diverse fishery to say the least!  i have no plans to fish the lake, but was just wondering if the drawdown had a bad impact on fishing there.   




I thought you were supposed to use your sarcasm font when you posted something like this!  




nope, no sarcasm in it for me.  got an 11 year old who loves fishing the crick there and asks to go just about every day, but the 1.5 hour drive kinda kills that possibility.  he got two small muskies on his fly rod a few weeks ago while he was targeting carp so he thinks it's the greatest fishery in pa now.  would be almost impossible for me to pull him away from that to go try the lake for even a half hour.  
 
was really just curious if the lake was impacted as negatively as some feared it might be.  
#54
eyesandgillz
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Re: What On Earth Are They Doing To Woodcock??!! 2021/07/09 08:41:31 (permalink)
Well, I would think a complete drain down of the entire lake would have impacted it significantly...if not totally destroyed it for the near future....downstream is probably the best bet for sure.
#55
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