Helpful ReplyHot!Joe Biden

Page: << < ..4142434445.. > >> Showing page 43 of 49
Author
Porktown
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 8380
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2001/09/04 16:37:05
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/17 13:14:06 (permalink)
DeadGator401
 
So of course when he was speaking I missed a good chunk of it. 

The info I was told was basically he:
1. "Buck stops here" and took responsibility for it, but then pointed some fingers
2. Afghanistan Government asked us to not leave in a specific manner, so we didn't and hung around. Then they cut tail and ran, leaving us with our feet in our mouths, which resulted in the Airport debacle. 

I can say though, I've seen news coverage from different media outlets and it doesn't seem doom and gloom, which is super weird. There's been Taliban leaders and commanders giving interviews saying that the treatment of women won't be this horrific thing people are assuming, and will be guided the way Islam dictates. 

Now if there was any group of people to not believe, it'd be them, but it does make you wonder. What would be their reasoning for this? Why would they give interviews, and make claims like they have? Maybe their benefit is international aid, or wanting to be recognized as a government by the world in general? 

If there are human rights violations, and word gets out, their aid and anything else will likely go poof so.


Your point 1 and 2 are sort of the same in his speech.
 
He put a lot of focus on his speech about it being beyond time to leave and the need for our forces elsewhere.  Besides Mitch McConnell, Lindsay Graham, and many other Dems and GOP of the military industrial complex, I think many would agree.  Some are saying that he is pointing the finger at Trump, but he is more giving him credit for implementing a plan that he agreed to keep moving forward with.  Granted, Trump is a complete vag for pushing the date beyond his own term.  If Biden didn't agree with it, he could have easily pulled out and would have went back to war. 
 
The real finger pointing was in your #2 point.  The blame pointed at the Afghan military and government folding without any sort of resistance, at least for Kabul.  Tuning into the news, we'd think the Taliban took over the whole country in a weekend.  They have been taking over parts since May.  Once they were at Kabul, barely a shot fired in resistence.  If you want to blame Biden in believing those forces could last two more weeks, sure.  If you want to blame Biden for not having more people out of Afghanistan earlier, sure.  I am pretty sure most American citizens, besides diplomats, weren't being forced to stay.  They knew exactly what was going on since Feb. 2020, when the agreement was signed.  The Afghan nationals that helped the US looking for visas, we already know were being processed, starting in Feb of 2020.  I would hope those with the highest profile of help to the US, were processed immediately after the deal was signed.  I'd be willing to bet that the majority of those people at the airport were regular Kabul citizens that were enjoying Democracy with very little if any ties to the US.  Sorry, but stand up and fight for Democracy if that is what you want, not run to the airport and hang onto jets taking off.
 
He did also warn the Taliban that any violence to US personnel will be met with retaliation.  To me, this will be his biggest test.  If able to get out of this without a hostage situation or casualties will be pure luck.  How he is able to handle issues that will definitely arise will show his true leadership skills.  He could be a complete failure.  We already saw how much of a complete and utter failure the prior president when a crisis hit his watch.  Lets see how this one is able to react.  Maybe if Biden fails, he can say that it was the Deep State agents dressed up like Taliban soldiers.  I am sure that is what some of the nutjob Trumpers would be saying if that chiteater was still president. 
 
I saw an interview with some sort of Afghan policy expert.  She noted that 85% or something like that, of Afghan's GDP was from foreign aid.  Those interviews and such with the Taliban leaders noting they are following the peace agreement, would have those funds tied to it.  So, they have a lot of reason to keep things peaceful.  They supposedly want to be an internationally recognized government, which was part of the withdraw agreement.  They may very well stick to it.  But having so many tribes that make up their forces, who knows how disciplined they are able to keep their soldiers.
post edited by Porktown - 2021/08/17 13:34:15
JM2
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1008
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/12/25 14:57:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/17 13:18:46 (permalink)
DeadGator401

You did it. Good for you man. 

I'd still argue that being the President who takes the hit for pulling out of Afghanistan is bigger than the things you listed though. It's the end of a long long war we shouldn't have been involved with. 

The Southern Border does need to be addressed, and the Hunter Biden stuff is eh. Dudes a scumbag, and if he is tried by the justice system and found guilty of a crime, so be it, toss him in jail. (Probably won't happen. We all know it's VERY hard for rich people and their children to go to jail)




You still don’t get it. Biden was not going to take a hit for pulling out Afghanistan. It was, and still is supported by most everyone. It’s how he went about it. Not to mention the unnecessary loss of life, it is a complete embarrassment to this country. He totally screwed this up.
 
Pulling out of Afghanistan wasn’t at all a big controversy to me when I questioned Pork’s post a few days ago. At the time I had no clue of how badly this administration was going to screw this up. It’s the failed execution of the pull out that is now the big controversy.
 
ICE NUT
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1067
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/01/11 21:02:12
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/17 14:18:10 (permalink)
When Joe lost the boot lickers lap dogs of CNN he's toast!
DeadGator401
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 411
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2013/07/17 22:42:40
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/17 15:10:30 (permalink)
ICE NUT
When Joe lost the boot lickers lap dogs of CNN he's toast!



Pretty weird to see a media outlet not bend over for a god king eh? 
MyWar
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1202
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2018/06/03 06:54:05
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/17 21:30:26 (permalink)
JM2
MyWar
JM2

Exactly right. This administration is causing one problem after another. Trump would not have just cut, and run.

Remember when Trump pulled troops from Syria, and the media was all over him for abandoning the Kurds, and leaving them to be slaughtered. There was no slaughter, and it was the right move. 




Except you’re wrong. “Cut and run” is exactly what Trump did in Syria.

And despite the fact that the UN has called for a ceasefire due to COVID, Kurdish forces are still getting their a55es kicked all over.

https://newint.org/featur...y-kurds-betrayed-again

https://www.theguardian.c...men-are-taking-up-arms

https://www.independent.c...ssion-sna-b471878.html

https://slate.com/news-an...emocratic-council.html


I could go on. There are plenty of media outlets reporting on this. Just because it’s not on Breitbart or Bongino Report doesn’t mean it’s not happening.



Follow along, I commented on the media coverage of our troops being pulled out of Syria, and the predicted slaughter of the Kurds which never happened. You may define that as also a cut and run, maybe so, but it didn’t result in a major F up caused by an out of touch administration. Afghanistan is not Syria. One size doesn’t fit all.
 
Great google search, and cherrypicking on your part, but none of the obscure links you provided mentioned any genocide that was predicted by the American MSM. Just commentary of the struggles and hardships that the Kurds were experiencing at the time of the dated articles. The same hardship, and battles that they fought before our troops were ever present, when our troops were present, and more than likely for many years to come. 
 
Slate? Back to google for you. Can you provide any source that reported any slaughter of the  Kurds after our troops left?
 
 


Check the dates again. They are all after. Trump pulled troops in October 2019.

You said “genocide”. All kinds of words were used in predictions about the Kurds - “slaughtered”, “massacred”, “ethnic cleansing”, “abandoned”, etc… One of those links is an article from September 2020 (almost one year after Trump pulled troops out of Syria) describing a UN report that details how Kurds are being raped and tortured. So I guess I’m sorry if that’s not a distressing enough outcome for you, but I actually think that’s pretty fukking horrific.

It wasn’t just the “MSM” either, it was EVERYBODY including his own political allies like Lindsey Graham.

So I guess we will wait and see how the Taliban will rule. Most of the reports coming out of Afghanistan describe general panic and chaotic departures, bit so far I haven’t seen much about torture, or indiscriminate killing, or any bloodshed at all really. So as of right now, the Taliban is treating those people better than the Turks are treating the Kurds.

If you think the Guardian and the Independent are “obscure” then there really isn’t much hope for you. And if you think the information in the Slate article is inaccurate then please cite a source that disputes it.
post edited by MyWar - 2021/08/17 21:32:06
JM2
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1008
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/12/25 14:57:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/18 01:54:29 (permalink)
I'm fully aware of the dates. Maybe you could educate yourself on the plight of the Kurds for lets say the past 100 years. I'm not going to waste my time trying to, you are just going to try and spin things, and then argue with me. Not much has changed for them after the troops left Syria than what was going on before. 
 
Do you care about the human trafficking, and abuse happening at our Southern border? Or are you still denying the border being over run is even going on?
post edited by JM2 - 2021/08/18 01:59:50
MyWar
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1202
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2018/06/03 06:54:05
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/18 09:25:16 (permalink)
The southern border is a completely different topic, You’re deflecting.

A lot has changed for Kurds. Mainly they no longer have the support of the US military to aid them in a fight where their enemy wants wipe them off the face of the earth. You don’t think the aid of the US military is a big deal? How sad it is that you have such a low opinion of our armed forces.

First you said there was “no slaughter”. Now you’re saying they were getting killed anyway. You’re moving the goalposts.
ICE NUT
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1067
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/01/11 21:02:12
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/18 15:08:16 (permalink)
Old Joe has really screwed up alot of things in his 47 years of public service however, i think he has out done himself this time. Thousands of american citizens still there and Joes counting on the taliban to get them safely out! Imagine what our allies think now.Poor man had to cut short his vacation to deal with this ,at least now that he's back he can screw things up even more.Lets just pray that China,Russia or Iran don't want to test old sleepy were in deep dodo if they do, not sure if US is up to it were al bit more worried about CRT and pony tails instead of buns,white rage,which bathroom to use,gender surgery,
drawde
New Angler
  • Total Posts : 40
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2013/03/03 12:09:01
  • Status: offline
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/18 16:40:25 (permalink)
Joe doesn't care about americans in the US, look at the "closed" southern border,  let alone americans in foreign lands.
DeadGator401
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 411
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2013/07/17 22:42:40
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/18 16:57:13 (permalink)
ICE NUT
Old Joe has really screwed up alot of things in his 47 years of public service however, i think he has out done himself this time. Thousands of american citizens still there and Joes counting on the taliban to get them safely out! Imagine what our allies think now.Poor man had to cut short his vacation to deal with this ,at least now that he's back he can screw things up even more.Lets just pray that China,Russia or Iran don't want to test old sleepy were in deep dodo if they do, not sure if US is up to it were al bit more worried about CRT and pony tails instead of buns,white rage,which bathroom to use,gender surgery,



lol what?
r3g3
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2815
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2014/03/24 16:42:10
  • Status: offline
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/18 21:52:50 (permalink)
Biden is toast------finished- along with many of his handlers
 
Can almost hear a faint TDS moan in the background but its too far off for any hopes of saving Bidens legacy.
 
He and his are toast in the mids----------
 
If he lasts that long he will be 25thed or impeached and outed in the disgrace he earned,
 
 
 
 
and dont try and say T wanted out too - he did - but NOT LIKE THIS- this belongs to the Dems---
JM2
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1008
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/12/25 14:57:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/19 02:07:30 (permalink)
MyWar
The southern border is a completely different topic, You’re deflecting.

A lot has changed for Kurds. Mainly they no longer have the support of the US military to aid them in a fight where their enemy wants wipe them off the face of the earth. You don’t think the aid of the US military is a big deal? How sad it is that you have such a low opinion of our armed forces.

First you said there was “no slaughter”. Now you’re saying they were getting killed anyway. You’re moving the goalposts.



So here, I thought it was you that was moving the goalposts, and defecting. 
 
The situation with the Kurds was handled much differently. There was a clear expectations of what was acceptable actions from Turkey pertaining to the Kurds. That is why there was no massive slaughter as predicted by many. I see no problem with supplying aid to the Kurds to defend themselves, but at the same time we are also providing both general, and military aid to Turkey. That being said, at the time we had great influence over the situation, and there was little need to maintain a physical military presence on the ground to babysit the situation. That is why we could cut and run from there with no significant change. That was under Trump. Things could, and may change there under a weak, and feckless Biden administration.
 
Afghanistan is a much different situation, and was/is being handled stupidly by this administration. A textbook example of complete incompetence on display for the world to see. I previously brought up Syria merely as an example of how the media covered Trump's withdrawal from Syria much differently than Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan.
 
The reason I bought up the Southern border was not to move the goalpost, or defect, but to expose your concerns for the plight of the Kurds that you perceive was caused by Trump, while ignoring some of the same type of abuses at the southern border caused by Biden. Pretty simple comparison if you would only you would think about it.
 
Should we send troops around the world to stop human abuses? Africa? China? While Biden has created an environment at the border that is causing some of the same type of abuses. Are your concerns, and big caring heart extended to these people too, or only to those people in situations that you believe you can connect negatively to Trump?
 
 
ICE NUT
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1067
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/01/11 21:02:12
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/19 08:22:44 (permalink)
Thanks Joe and Kamoola and the 80 million dolts!!!
MyWar
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1202
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2018/06/03 06:54:05
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/19 11:47:20 (permalink)
JM2
The situation with the Kurds was handled much differently. There was a clear expectations of what was acceptable actions from Turkey pertaining to the Kurds. That is why there was no massive slaughter as predicted by many. I see no problem with supplying aid to the Kurds to defend themselves, but at the same time we are also providing both general, and military aid to Turkey.

 
Except no, we are not providing military aid to Turkey. Although Trump spent his term cozying up to authoritarian dictators like Erdogan, Congress blocked any attempts to sell weapons to Turkey, and Biden is taking a much colder approach to relations with them. Turkey ended up buying an elaborate missile defense system from Russia, which triggered the threat of all kinds of punitive actions and sanctions. 
 
Also, what are these expectations of actions pertaining to the Kurds that you speak of? Please be specific.
 
 
 
JM2
Afghanistan is a much different situation, and was/is being handled stupidly by this administration.
 
 
Well, Trump initiated the withdrawal. He was bragging about at one his dumb rallies back in June that Biden was powerless to stop what he had started:
https://twitter.com/theNuzzy/status/1427051039404957697
 
And he was criticizing Biden for not doing it even sooner. And he was also criticizing Biden for using Sept 11, even after he had invited Taliban leaders to Camp David the day before Sept 11 2019:

 
Trump's deal with the Taliban forced the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners, many of which are no doubt overrunning Kabul right now. And as the above statement says, he left only 2,000 troops.
 
So if Trump's claims about getting all of the equipment out are true, why are the Taliban riding around in US military issue Humvees? And if Trump set all of this in motion before he left office, what, specifically, are the errors that Biden made?
 
 
 
JM2
A textbook example of complete incompetence on display for the world to see.
 
 
Oh you mean like this example, from UK media? 
Spineless' Trump 'got rolled' by Erdogan on Syria and the White House withdrawal statement 'stunned' the Pentagon
 
Trump wasn't highly regarded as a strong international player. He just wasn't. I know you right wing people fantasize about that ripped, shirtless Rambo-Trump with a machine gun, but outside your little bubble, he is a joke. Even after this mess, the US under Biden has more credibility and respect on the world stage.
 
 
JM2
I previously brought up Syria merely as an example of how the media covered Trump's withdrawal from Syria much differently than Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan.
 
 
The media is being plenty hard on Biden for this. Make no mistake.
 
Also, regarding Syria, the media covered criticisms of the things that Trump did because that is the media's job. Pulling out of Syria was not a popular move on either side of the aisle. Primarily, the criticisms of Syria withdrawal amounted to the fact that we used the Kurds as our allies when we needed their help to fight ISIS, and then when we were done with them we just left them on their own to get their a55es kicked because Trump had a soft spot for dictators like Erdogan and his Daddy Putin. Sure, we can argue the semantics about whether Kurds are being subject to "massive slaughter" (as you say) or simply being " tortured" or "ethnically cleansed", but as you pointed out, they have been oppressed for a very long time, and without our aid it will undoubtedly continue. These things are in fact happening, despite your initial attempt to downplay the severity of what is happening to them.
 
Actually the biggest difference here is that the ANA simply surrendered to the Taliban because they have the option of peaceful surrender. The Kurds don't have that option. Part of the reason that the Kurds helped us is because we promised to aid them in a fight that they have no choice but to engage in. Clearly, the Afghan people don't feel as strongly about our presence.
 
 
 
JM2
The reason I bought up the Southern border was not to move the goalpost, or defect, but to expose your concerns for the plight of the Kurds that you perceive was caused by Trump, while ignoring some of the same type of abuses at the southern border caused by Biden. Pretty simple comparison if you would only you would think about it.
 
Should we send troops around the world to stop human abuses? Africa? China? While Biden has created an environment at the border that is causing some of the same type of abuses. Are your concerns, and big caring heart extended to these people too, or only to those people in situations that you believe you can connect negatively to Trump?
 

 
The presence of the US military in Syria and Afghanistan were not for humanitarian reasons, they were strategic military occupations. Part of the problem here is that you are strawmanning the whole situation by mis-characterizing the criticisms of Trump's withdrawal from Syria. He wasn't criticized solely on humanitarian grounds or simply because the Kurds were getting killed. A major criticism of Trump's move was that he was abandoning strategic allies that helped us defeat ISIS, and abandonment of international allies suggest that the US can't be trusted. 
 
Porktown
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 8380
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2001/09/04 16:37:05
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/19 12:41:34 (permalink)
r3g3
Biden is toast------finished- along with many of his handlers
 
Can almost hear a faint TDS moan in the background but its too far off for any hopes of saving Bidens legacy.
 
He and his are toast in the mids----------
 
If he lasts that long he will be 25thed or impeached and outed in the disgrace he earned,
 
 
 
 
and dont try and say T wanted out too - he did - but NOT LIKE THIS- this belongs to the Dems---


"Despite this recent decline, Biden's approval rating is still higher than former President Donald Trump's was at its peak."
 
https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-approval-rating-slumps-again-still-higher-donald-trump-1621013
 
So, he won't get the Trump signs, t-shirts or hats to vote for him?  Neither did Trump.
psu_fish
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2963
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/08/28 22:37:11
  • Location: PA
  • Status: offline
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/19 20:20:45 (permalink)
Well we can now officially call him Hiding Biden. 
JM2
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1008
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/12/25 14:57:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/20 02:46:18 (permalink)
MyWar
JM2
The situation with the Kurds was handled much differently. There was a clear expectations of what was acceptable actions from Turkey pertaining to the Kurds. That is why there was no massive slaughter as predicted by many. I see no problem with supplying aid to the Kurds to defend themselves, but at the same time we are also providing both general, and military aid to Turkey.

 
Except no, we are not providing military aid to Turkey. Although Trump spent his term cozying up to authoritarian dictators like Erdogan, Congress blocked any attempts to sell weapons to Turkey, and Biden is taking a much colder approach to relations with them. Turkey ended up buying an elaborate missile defense system from Russia, which triggered the threat of all kinds of punitive actions and sanctions. 
 
Also, what are these expectations of actions pertaining to the Kurds that you speak of? Please be specific.
 
 
 
JM2
Afghanistan is a much different situation, and was/is being handled stupidly by this administration.
 
 
Well, Trump initiated the withdrawal. He was bragging about at one his dumb rallies back in June that Biden was powerless to stop what he had started:
https://twitter.com/theNuzzy/status/1427051039404957697
 
And he was criticizing Biden for not doing it even sooner. And he was also criticizing Biden for using Sept 11, even after he had invited Taliban leaders to Camp David the day before Sept 11 2019:
 
 
Trump's deal with the Taliban forced the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners, many of which are no doubt overrunning Kabul right now. And as the above statement says, he left only 2,000 troops.
 
So if Trump's claims about getting all of the equipment out are true, why are the Taliban riding around in US military issue Humvees? And if Trump set all of this in motion before he left office, what, specifically, are the errors that Biden made?
 
 
 
JM2
A textbook example of complete incompetence on display for the world to see.
 
 
Oh you mean like this example, from UK media? 
Spineless' Trump 'got rolled' by Erdogan on Syria and the White House withdrawal statement 'stunned' the Pentagon
 
Trump wasn't highly regarded as a strong international player. He just wasn't. I know you right wing people fantasize about that ripped, shirtless Rambo-Trump with a machine gun, but outside your little bubble, he is a joke. Even after this mess, the US under Biden has more credibility and respect on the world stage.
 
 
JM2
I previously brought up Syria merely as an example of how the media covered Trump's withdrawal from Syria much differently than Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan.
 
 
The media is being plenty hard on Biden for this. Make no mistake.
 
Also, regarding Syria, the media covered criticisms of the things that Trump did because that is the media's job. Pulling out of Syria was not a popular move on either side of the aisle. Primarily, the criticisms of Syria withdrawal amounted to the fact that we used the Kurds as our allies when we needed their help to fight ISIS, and then when we were done with them we just left them on their own to get their a55es kicked because Trump had a soft spot for dictators like Erdogan and his Daddy Putin. Sure, we can argue the semantics about whether Kurds are being subject to "massive slaughter" (as you say) or simply being " tortured" or "ethnically cleansed", but as you pointed out, they have been oppressed for a very long time, and without our aid it will undoubtedly continue. These things are in fact happening, despite your initial attempt to downplay the severity of what is happening to them.
 
Actually the biggest difference here is that the ANA simply surrendered to the Taliban because they have the option of peaceful surrender. The Kurds don't have that option. Part of the reason that the Kurds helped us is because we promised to aid them in a fight that they have no choice but to engage in. Clearly, the Afghan people don't feel as strongly about our presence.
  
JM2
The reason I bought up the Southern border was not to move the goalpost, or defect, but to expose your concerns for the plight of the Kurds that you perceive was caused by Trump, while ignoring some of the same type of abuses at the southern border caused by Biden. Pretty simple comparison if you would only you would think about it.
 
Should we send troops around the world to stop human abuses? Africa? China? While Biden has created an environment at the border that is causing some of the same type of abuses. Are your concerns, and big caring heart extended to these people too, or only to those people in situations that you believe you can connect negatively to Trump?
 

 
The presence of the US military in Syria and Afghanistan were not for humanitarian reasons, they were strategic military occupations. Part of the problem here is that you are strawmanning the whole situation by mis-characterizing the criticisms of Trump's withdrawal from Syria. He wasn't criticized solely on humanitarian grounds or simply because the Kurds were getting killed. A major criticism of Trump's move was that he was abandoning strategic allies that helped us defeat ISIS, and abandonment of international allies suggest that the US can't be trusted. 
 



So you don’t seem to think we have great leverage, and influence over Turkey, and had no ability to control their actions concerning the Kurds. Okay, got it. I seem to remember Trump threatening Turkey with crippling economic sanctions if they went after the Kurds. 
 
If Trump’s dealings, and plans to withdraw troops from Afghanistan were so flawed why didn’t Biden correct them. He has been President for seven months now. Biden certainly took little time to correct Trump’s flawed southern border policies, and that seems to be going similarly as well as his Afghan debacle.
 
You are saying our military presence in both Syria, and Afghanistan were for strategic and not the humanitarian reasons that you were so concerned about earlier. Okay, let’s go with that. So I guess Trump should have maintained a military presence in Syria, and Biden should have similarly maintained a continued military presence in Afghanistan?  
 
Trump actually did back up a bit and never did a complete withdrawal of troops in Syria. I think he left a few hundred.
 
I’m more than certain that if Trump was still in office, we would be out of Afghanistan, and that the Taliban would still be waiting for someone like Joe to come along before making their move.
 
ICE NUT
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1067
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/01/11 21:02:12
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/21 08:27:39 (permalink)
Just read that General Donahue commander of 82nd Airborne Division telling British SAS commander to stop rescue of people because its making the US look bad.Are you kidding me this idiot president and his whole administration are a disgrace to this nation we are a joke to rest of the world its so sad that in only 8 months Thanks again DEMORATS
bigfoot
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2244
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/21 09:06:26 (permalink)
I believe pulling up stakes and getting the heck out of Afganistan was the right thing to do but the wrong 😑 way to go about it. My brothers grandson served over there. He was EOD specialist. I think I will talk to my brother and perhaps also get his grandsons opinion on how the withdrawal was handled.

"We should take as a maxim never to be surprised at current difficulties no more than at a passing breeze, because with patience we shall see them disappear. Time changes everything."
St. Vincent de Paul 
Porktown
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 8380
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2001/09/04 16:37:05
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/21 09:42:31 (permalink)
Not sure what retired General was on tv yesterday saying the same thing that I noted about the vast majority of the crowds we see around the airport are Afghan citizens with no American ties. We can’t evacuate every person that opposed the Taliban. The Afghan military “helped the US military” do we evacuate them?

As for Biden, each day he loses credibility in this mess. He is pulling a Trump in doubling down on completely false statements. Which was one of my personally most troublesome things about Trump. If something has changed and your statement from a few weeks ago is wrong, own it, don’t deny it. If something is clearly not the case from what is being reported by multiple media sources, how do you double down. Is Biden going to start calling reality “fake news” like his predecessor? He’s no where near the disgrace as the fat orangutan, but he is making his way there.
ICE NUT
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1067
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/01/11 21:02:12
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/21 10:49:49 (permalink)
He is nowhere near the disgrace as trump.Your right pork he's hundreds of time worse and he is disgracing the entire US. His own party lap dogs all have turned on him.this vegtable needs to resign now or be 25th out of office.
MyWar
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1202
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2018/06/03 06:54:05
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/21 11:22:11 (permalink)
JM2
MyWar
JM2
The situation with the Kurds was handled much differently. There was a clear expectations of what was acceptable actions from Turkey pertaining to the Kurds. That is why there was no massive slaughter as predicted by many. I see no problem with supplying aid to the Kurds to defend themselves, but at the same time we are also providing both general, and military aid to Turkey.

 
Except no, we are not providing military aid to Turkey. Although Trump spent his term cozying up to authoritarian dictators like Erdogan, Congress blocked any attempts to sell weapons to Turkey, and Biden is taking a much colder approach to relations with them. Turkey ended up buying an elaborate missile defense system from Russia, which triggered the threat of all kinds of punitive actions and sanctions. 
 
Also, what are these expectations of actions pertaining to the Kurds that you speak of? Please be specific.
 
 
 
JM2
Afghanistan is a much different situation, and was/is being handled stupidly by this administration.
 
 
Well, Trump initiated the withdrawal. He was bragging about at one his dumb rallies back in June that Biden was powerless to stop what he had started:
https://twitter.com/theNuzzy/status/1427051039404957697
 
And he was criticizing Biden for not doing it even sooner. And he was also criticizing Biden for using Sept 11, even after he had invited Taliban leaders to Camp David the day before Sept 11 2019:
 
 
Trump's deal with the Taliban forced the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners, many of which are no doubt overrunning Kabul right now. And as the above statement says, he left only 2,000 troops.
 
So if Trump's claims about getting all of the equipment out are true, why are the Taliban riding around in US military issue Humvees? And if Trump set all of this in motion before he left office, what, specifically, are the errors that Biden made?
 
 
 
JM2
A textbook example of complete incompetence on display for the world to see.
 
 
Oh you mean like this example, from UK media? 
Spineless' Trump 'got rolled' by Erdogan on Syria and the White House withdrawal statement 'stunned' the Pentagon
 
Trump wasn't highly regarded as a strong international player. He just wasn't. I know you right wing people fantasize about that ripped, shirtless Rambo-Trump with a machine gun, but outside your little bubble, he is a joke. Even after this mess, the US under Biden has more credibility and respect on the world stage.
 
 
JM2
I previously brought up Syria merely as an example of how the media covered Trump's withdrawal from Syria much differently than Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan.
 
 
The media is being plenty hard on Biden for this. Make no mistake.
 
Also, regarding Syria, the media covered criticisms of the things that Trump did because that is the media's job. Pulling out of Syria was not a popular move on either side of the aisle. Primarily, the criticisms of Syria withdrawal amounted to the fact that we used the Kurds as our allies when we needed their help to fight ISIS, and then when we were done with them we just left them on their own to get their a55es kicked because Trump had a soft spot for dictators like Erdogan and his Daddy Putin. Sure, we can argue the semantics about whether Kurds are being subject to "massive slaughter" (as you say) or simply being " tortured" or "ethnically cleansed", but as you pointed out, they have been oppressed for a very long time, and without our aid it will undoubtedly continue. These things are in fact happening, despite your initial attempt to downplay the severity of what is happening to them.
 
Actually the biggest difference here is that the ANA simply surrendered to the Taliban because they have the option of peaceful surrender. The Kurds don't have that option. Part of the reason that the Kurds helped us is because we promised to aid them in a fight that they have no choice but to engage in. Clearly, the Afghan people don't feel as strongly about our presence.
  
JM2
The reason I bought up the Southern border was not to move the goalpost, or defect, but to expose your concerns for the plight of the Kurds that you perceive was caused by Trump, while ignoring some of the same type of abuses at the southern border caused by Biden. Pretty simple comparison if you would only you would think about it.
 
Should we send troops around the world to stop human abuses? Africa? China? While Biden has created an environment at the border that is causing some of the same type of abuses. Are your concerns, and big caring heart extended to these people too, or only to those people in situations that you believe you can connect negatively to Trump?
 

 
The presence of the US military in Syria and Afghanistan were not for humanitarian reasons, they were strategic military occupations. Part of the problem here is that you are strawmanning the whole situation by mis-characterizing the criticisms of Trump's withdrawal from Syria. He wasn't criticized solely on humanitarian grounds or simply because the Kurds were getting killed. A major criticism of Trump's move was that he was abandoning strategic allies that helped us defeat ISIS, and abandonment of international allies suggest that the US can't be trusted. 
 



So you don’t seem to think we have great leverage, and influence over Turkey, and had no ability to control their actions concerning the Kurds. Okay, got it. I seem to remember Trump threatening Turkey with crippling economic sanctions if they went after the Kurds. 
 
If Trump’s dealings, and plans to withdraw troops from Afghanistan were so flawed why didn’t Biden correct them. He has been President for seven months now. Biden certainly took little time to correct Trump’s flawed southern border policies, and that seems to be going similarly as well as his Afghan debacle.
 
You are saying our military presence in both Syria, and Afghanistan were for strategic and not the humanitarian reasons that you were so concerned about earlier. Okay, let’s go with that. So I guess Trump should have maintained a military presence in Syria, and Biden should have similarly maintained a continued military presence in Afghanistan?  
 
Trump actually did back up a bit and never did a complete withdrawal of troops in Syria. I think he left a few hundred.
 
I’m more than certain that if Trump was still in office, we would be out of Afghanistan, and that the Taliban would still be waiting for someone like Joe to come along before making their move.
 


Right. Only the god emperor himself could have pulled this one off.
MyWar
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1202
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2018/06/03 06:54:05
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/21 11:34:36 (permalink)
Porktown
Not sure what retired General was on tv yesterday saying the same thing that I noted about the vast majority of the crowds we see around the airport are Afghan citizens with no American ties. We can’t evacuate every person that opposed the Taliban. The Afghan military “helped the US military” do we evacuate them?

As for Biden, each day he loses credibility in this mess. He is pulling a Trump in doubling down on completely false statements. Which was one of my personally most troublesome things about Trump. If something has changed and your statement from a few weeks ago is wrong, own it, don’t deny it. If something is clearly not the case from what is being reported by multiple media sources, how do you double down. Is Biden going to start calling reality “fake news” like his predecessor? He’s no where near the disgrace as the fat orangutan, but he is making his way there.


What exactly is he doubling down on?

The fundamental miscalculation here was expecting the Afghani government to last more than a week. Or at least last until the US had completely withdrawn troops.

Of course now, everybody is a Monday morning military genius, but nobody sounded the alarm on this beforehand. Not Trump, not McConnell, not any of this dipsh1ts in the right wing media world….

So Biden is gonna take some lumps on this for sure. But I wouldn’t interpret this as anything more than an opportunity for partisan attacks. Afghanistan was going to be a mess after we left, period. It was a given the Afghanistan government was going to fall to the Taliban. Starting ears is easy, ending them is hard.

People also don’t really care about foreign policy that much. Do you think the average moderate suburban voter cares more about the Afghanistan withdrawal? Or whether their kids are gonna safe from covid when they start school in a few weeks?
Porktown
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 8380
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2001/09/04 16:37:05
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/21 11:59:29 (permalink)
He is either completely misspeaking or he is lying. He doubled down that Americans have safe passage to the airport. That is just not true per reports from all media. He repeated it multiple times. Months ago, he said there would be no Vietnam style panic. Obviously there was, but when asked, said that he sticks by his comments. It might be a minor issue and do think this mess will be minimal, but is a pattern of doubling down on easily verifiable lies. It is one thing that many suburban voters turned away from Trump. Most are looking for someone that can be honest. Policy is secondary to most, as many that I know are pretty split between the left and right on policy.
MyWar
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1202
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2018/06/03 06:54:05
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/21 12:29:17 (permalink)
Porktown
He is either completely misspeaking or he is lying. He doubled down that Americans have safe passage to the airport. That is just not true per reports from all media. He repeated it multiple times. Months ago, he said there would be no Vietnam style panic


Well one of these statements could be called a lie and the other is failing to predict the future.

And from my understanding of the withdrawal agreement, the Taliban are to allow Americans to leave. I’m seeing a lot of reports about panic but I’m not seeing very many about dead Americans, are you? So what is meant by “safe passage”?

The people who are at a much greater risk are the Afghani people, like the interpreters, who worked with Americans during the occupation. It’s not so easy for these people to leave, and they are a greater risk of retaliation by the Taliban. But somehow I doubt the folks who are screaming the loudest about Biden’s withdrawal would be in favor of accepting these folks as refugees, wouldn’t you agree?
Porktown
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 8380
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2001/09/04 16:37:05
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/21 13:31:12 (permalink)
As neighbors, I doubt at all! Even the American citizens left there are “not average Americans” like that Olympian shooting medalist.
EMitch
Expert Angler
  • Total Posts : 806
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2015/12/24 11:48:47
  • Location: Freeport, Pa.
  • Status: offline
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/21 19:34:18 (permalink)
Back in early June, Biden's own Secretary of Defense gave him fair warning on what was going to happen but he was ignored. Now folks are wondering if he's gonna resign, although he hasn't said anything about resigning and still stands behind the Commander in Chief. Planning should have been going on about withdrawal long before then. The military should have been in charge of all the logistics of closing down the bases and the removal, transportation, and return shipping of the billions of dollars worth of equipment (tax payers dollars) to the US or safe bases outside of Afghanistan. Much of that equipment was super high tech and is now in the hands of the Taliban after the American rout. Supposedly, we're supposed to have everybody out by the 31st of this month, but what happens if we don't. Will a Taliban terrorist use an American made shoulder fired heat seeking missile to bring down one of the C17s still in the evacuation stage? My God!! A General Officer in the 82nd Airborne has asked the Brits and the French to stop rescuing people in Kabul; "You're making us look bad"! This is by no means a withdrawal. It is a rout! Our forces have turned tail and are running for their lives. 
 
I said before the inauguration that Congress might use the 25th to remove the President and that it would originate in his own party. Let's see how these investigative proceedings, (called for by non-partisan reps) turn out. Everybody knew long ago that Biden was incompetent an not up to the task of the Presidency. I hope they can get our people out.

If you agree with the Progressive Democrats, that's freedom of speech. If you disagree, it's hate speech and racism.
JM2
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1008
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/12/25 14:57:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/21 20:33:39 (permalink)
MyWar
JM2

I’m more than certain that if Trump was still in office, we would be out of Afghanistan, and that the Taliban would still be waiting for someone like Joe to come along before making their move.
 


Right. Only the god emperor himself could have pulled this one off.



I'm not sure if Trump is the only one that could of pull this off, but he would of been out of there before May 1st. Not August 31st.
JM2
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1008
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/12/25 14:57:05
  • Status: offline
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/21 21:54:50 (permalink)
MyWar

The fundamental miscalculation here was expecting the Afghani government to last more than a week. Or at least last until the US had completely withdrawn troops.

Of course now, everybody is a Monday morning military genius, but nobody sounded the alarm on this beforehand. Not Trump, not McConnell, not any of this dipsh1ts in the right wing media world….

So Biden is gonna take some lumps on this for sure. But I wouldn’t interpret this as anything more than an opportunity for partisan attacks. Afghanistan was going to be a mess after we left, period. It was a given the Afghanistan government was going to fall to the Taliban. Starting ears is easy, ending them is hard.

People also don’t really care about foreign policy that much. Do you think the average moderate suburban voter cares more about the Afghanistan withdrawal? Or whether their kids are gonna safe from covid when they start school in a few weeks?



But the Taliban has been on the move since May. What was the plan here? Why wait till late July/August to notice that the Taliban were closing in on Kabul, and then close airbases, pull some troops out. Then after doing that start getting people out just a few days ago. Bizarrely arse backwards. 
 
You seem more concerned with the political fallout towards the Dems over this than anything else. So much for that big caring heart you're carrying around. It seems to only beat for the Dems.
ICE NUT
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1067
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/01/11 21:02:12
  • Status: online
Re: Joe Biden 2021/08/22 06:40:45 (permalink)
It,s the Sleepy Joe American Dunkirk Story right before our very eyes.
Page: << < ..4142434445.. > >> Showing page 43 of 49
Jump to: