Helpful ReplyHot!Joe Biden

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r3g3
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/27 10:28:10 (permalink)
Not all cops are good cops and not all bankers are good bankers- havent seen a  movement to defund banks lately --have you???
 
By far and away the vast majority of both are good honest folks - not to be judged by those who didnt belong.
 
 
MyWar
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/27 11:02:22 (permalink)
r3g3
Not all cops are good cops and not all bankers are good bankers- havent seen a  movement to defund banks lately --have you???
 


A lot of people wanted to put executives from big banks in jail after the 2008 crash. And I don’t necessarily disagree with than sentiment. “Bankers” don’t have the best public image either, and possibly rightfully so.

This part isn’t in the story I posted, and I don’t think it’s been widely reported, and I only know about it because I knew some of the bartenders... but the owner of that bar (who is a somewhat conservative type that is typically highly supportive of the police) turned over surveillance footage to the pittsburgh police department that clearly showed the cops instigated the altercation. The pittsburgh police department then “lost” the footage presumably because it contradicted their official version of events. The cops didn’t know that owner had a backup copy, which he turned over to both his attorneys as well as the attorneys for the bikers that the cops beat up, and that’s the only reason the public knows what actually happened.

So the cops got piiss drunk, assaulted then wrongfully arrested a group of bikers, lied about it on official reports, filed a bunch of bogus charges against the bikers, and then destroyed evidence to cover it up.

And you wonder why public trust of law enforcement has eroded?
MyWar
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/27 12:27:17 (permalink)
Oh yea, they pepper sprayed the owner too:

https://www.post-gazette....s/stories/202004170113

This article also reported the part about the Pgh police department trying to cover it up by destroying evidence. And it has the footage of the incident that cops tried to bury.

This is the same Pgh police department that lied about protesters escalating violence at BLM protests, lies which were exposed when video footage taken by protesters showed that the cops were the ones who tear gassed protesters unprovoked.

It doesn’t sound like a few bad cops to me. It sounds like there are systemic problems in the Pgh police department.
post edited by MyWar - 2021/05/27 12:29:00
r3g3
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/27 12:27:22 (permalink)
Soooo whats your answer---
No more cops ??
 
Its all over-- some people arent what they are supposed to be--
If I coulda shut down every business- banks included- where someone stole money or goods and it was kept from the public by management because there woulda  been no trust in that business any more by investors many of them wouldnt be here .
 
Actually I woulda enjoyed the opportunity to have got rid of some cops I knew too--
 
People are people and many arent perfect---
 
Beyond that harsh reality I really dont know what the whole point is beyond some distant perceived political advantage
post edited by r3g3 - 2021/05/27 12:31:13
Porktown
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/27 12:33:13 (permalink)
MyWar
Also, police departments are funded at state and local levels. So Joe Biden shouldn’t really be a part of any conversation about defunding police as it’s not funded at a federal level.

There is a good bit of money in federal grants and partnerships.  
 
https://cops.usdoj.gov/grants
 
https://www.fbi.gov/about/partnerships
 
It is enough for the Feds to have an impact.  Similar to the majority of education money coming from local property and state income taxes.  There is still enough other money from the Feds that most schools do not pass on.  But have to follow their rules to get it.  
 
I feel that the vast majority of officers are good people that do their job well, that have to deal with the actions of the bad apples.  The way the unions have set up the arbitration and many very favorable laws specifically for officers, it does give many loopholes for those bad apples to not be held accountable.  I wouldn't mind a warning every time I speed or a ride home any time I drank one or five too many.  I don't have issues with officers getting that level of benefits, they put their life on the line more than most of us do, for the good of all (socialists...).  If tightening the belt around getting away with violent crimes, I would imagine most officers would agree with this behind closed doors.
 
MyWar
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/27 12:50:27 (permalink)
r3g3
Soooo whats your answer---
No more cops ??
 


The first step is getting people to acknowledge that this is in fact a real systemic problem, and it needs to be addressed.

And the solution is not to continue apologizing for systemic corruption and police misconduct, or looking the other way, or trying to explain it away as “people aren’t perfect”.

I think I’ve said repeatedly that I’m not running around shouting “defund” because not only is the elimination of law enforcement an unrealistic goal, it gives ammunition to cop apologists who want to belittle people who are trying to bring attention to the real problem.

I’ve said we need real oversight and accountability, which could come in a variety of different forms. Independent review boards are a good first step, but you can see the obvious limitation here because in this case the review board found misconduct but yet these cops are all still on the street. So there needs to be some independent enforcement mechanism or ability to discipline officers, otherwise the review board can’t do anything except generate some bad PR for police departments.

A lot of other solutions have been proposed by everybody from activists to civil rights attorneys, and I would be happy to link to info about them. But I think for you, admitting or acknowledging that this is a real problem that needs to be addressed should probably come first. Because if we can’t agree on that, then discussions about a solution aren’t going to be productive.
MyWar
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/27 13:04:35 (permalink)
Porktown
MyWar
Also, police departments are funded at state and local levels. So Joe Biden shouldn’t really be a part of any conversation about defunding police as it’s not funded at a federal level.

There is a good bit of money in federal grants and partnerships.  
 
https://cops.usdoj.gov/grants
 
https://www.fbi.gov/about/partnerships
 
It is enough for the Feds to have an impact.  Similar to the majority of education money coming from local property and state income taxes.  There is still enough other money from the Feds that most schools do not pass on.  But have to follow their rules to get it.  


This is a fair point, but ultimately the budgets for policing are determined at state or local levels.

That link cites $14 billion in federal money since 1994. So what’s the ratio of that $14 billion in federal funding over a span of the last 27 years vs the sum total of all state and local police department budgets nationwide during the same time frame? I don’t have time to look it up but I’d bet it’s not a substantial portion of police department funding.

And if any of these grants come in the form of surplus military gear, then that’s a different conversation, and I would argue that local cops should not get that kind of “funding”.
MyWar
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/27 13:09:56 (permalink)
Porktown
I feel that the vast majority of officers are good people that do their job well, that have to deal with the actions of the bad apples. 



I can’t speak for every cop in every city all over the entire country, but I have seen plenty of evidence that suggests there are some serious, systemic problems with the pittsburgh police department.
Porktown
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/27 16:14:03 (permalink)
I would tend to think that most urban police forces are going to have more issues.  Many of those guys are dealing with crazy conditions 40-50 hours per week 52 weeks per year.  Just like soldiers off to war, they pretty much only trust each other.  That doesn't excuse any officers violating civil liberties of others.  But the talk of communities not trusting the police, is likely tenfold in reverse.
 
If there weren't the conditions of crime, I would imagine there wouldn't be the abuse of force problems.  
 
To me, just like immigration, you find the root of the issue and attempt to solve it.  Anything else is a temporary bandage, if not addressing the root as well.
 
Just like immigration, I think many in higher crime USA would be contributing parts of our society if there was meaningful, well paying work that didn't discriminate against them.  I am not talking paying $15/hr to wash dishes or flip burgers for all, either.  Having tax incentives for businesses to locate in some of these neighborhoods and hiring a certain percentage of local residents, might help show a path out of crime.  Which hopefully lowers the amount of stress put on those policing those areas.  With these higher paying jobs in the community, it would help other local businesses in cash flow through the community.  Also have occupations in the community that the younger kids could look up to, rather than crime.
dubber
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/28 09:12:43 (permalink)
Sounds like Kopy’s is the kind of bar everyone would like to have in their neighborhood, drug deals, biker gangs, maybe a nice place to take the wife for a drink, lol
Porktown
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/28 10:14:26 (permalink)
dubber
Sounds like Kopy’s is the kind of bar everyone would like to have in their neighborhood, drug deals, biker gangs, maybe a nice place to take the wife for a drink, lol

You just described about 90% of dive bars in this country.  I'd be willing to bet that you likely live near a bar with worse issues than Kopy's.
 
I used to live 2 blocks from Kopy's for 7 years.  My dad's side of the family is from that section of the South Side and I spent a lot of my life in that neighborhood.  It is right across the street from the playground we took our kids' 3-4 times per week and I spent many days as a kid.  Never have I seen or heard any issues of Kopy's.  Like most South Side establishments off of Carson St., it is much more low key than the Carson St. bars.
 
Just like this instance, if someone stays for 19 drinks, usually that person ends up in some sort of issue.  I can't say that I have ever heard of it being a drug dealer, biker or cop with alcohol problem bar.  Not sure if they still have the musky hanging from the wall?  That was caught by my dad's best friend as a kid.
dubber
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/28 13:18:49 (permalink)
I read the Op-Ed that my war posted, never heard of it before, lots of nice daytime neighborhood bars get rough at night
MyWar
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/28 13:51:10 (permalink)
The bars on Carson are way worse than Kopys. The 20 something idiots that can’t handle their liquor and just go out to start fights stick to places like Mario’s and Foxtail. Those are the places that are best avoided.

The people that I knew that hung out Kopys were my age or older. A lot of them went there because they had a pinball machine, or they just came in to drink with the owner. It was always chill. At worst, some of the regulars were kind of sad/desperate/lonely types, not troublemakers.

I’ve also spent a lot of time in bars with plenty of drugs and bikers around and I’ve never seen a brawl like what happened at Kopys.

Pretty sure musky was still on the wall last time I was in there (before covid).
DeadGator401
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/28 14:23:14 (permalink)
Weird the Jan 6 Commission was struck down in the Senate?
Antifa had their hands all over that attack - why wouldn't our fellow patriots want to expose this and bring it to light? Show what Antifa really is!
The Swamp must be deep and vast.



BloodyHand
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/28 15:54:20 (permalink)
What's with this 9 TRILLION dollar budget proposal? Who's paying for it? Answer: Everyone, when inflation skyrockets out of control.
 
BH
MyWar
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/28 16:15:29 (permalink)
DeadGator401
Weird the Jan 6 Commission was struck down in the Senate?
Antifa had their hands all over that attack - why wouldn't our fellow patriots want to expose this and bring it to light? Show what Antifa really is!
The Swamp must be deep and vast.





54 ayes, 35 nays

Well I guess the nays have it.

What a sensible, and functional system of government we have here.
JerryS
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/28 16:56:57 (permalink)
MyWar
DeadGator401
Weird the Jan 6 Commission was struck down in the Senate?
Antifa had their hands all over that attack - why wouldn't our fellow patriots want to expose this and bring it to light? Show what Antifa really is!
The Swamp must be deep and vast.





54 ayes, 35 nays

Well I guess the nays have it.

What a sensible, and functional system of government we have here.


I guess "Blue Lives don't matter" to the 35 nays
Porktown
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/28 16:58:29 (permalink)
Not sure how anyone could be surprised by the GOP blocking this.  Half of them are behind the attacks.  Why would they want a commission that would expose their knowledge and participation in it?
 
If the Dems didn't have such horrible policies, the disgrace of the GOP the past 5 years would ensure them control for the next 50 years.
JM2
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/28 17:07:22 (permalink)
MyWar
DeadGator401
Weird the Jan 6 Commission was struck down in the Senate?
Antifa had their hands all over that attack - why wouldn't our fellow patriots want to expose this and bring it to light? Show what Antifa really is!
The Swamp must be deep and vast.
 
 
 

 
54 ayes, 35 nays
 Well I guess the nays have it.

What a sensible, and functional system of government we have here.
 
JM2
 
Someday I hope you get the government that you deserve. I just hope it's never in this country. Our government was designed to slow things down, and protect the governed from a nutty few. Especially those with a purely political agenda. Just because you fail to understand something, or how it works doesn't mean it needs to be fixed.
 

post edited by JM2 - 2021/05/28 17:24:58
DeadGator401
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/28 17:09:29 (permalink)
JerryS
MyWar
DeadGator401
Weird the Jan 6 Commission was struck down in the Senate?
Antifa had their hands all over that attack - why wouldn't our fellow patriots want to expose this and bring it to light? Show what Antifa really is!
The Swamp must be deep and vast.



54 ayes, 35 nays

Well I guess the nays have it.

What a sensible, and functional system of government we have here.


I guess "Blue Lives don't matter" to the 35 nays



I just can't fathom why we wouldn't want to investigate the attack by Antifa specifically designed to make President Trump look bad? 


MyWar
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/28 19:23:25 (permalink)
JM2
 Our government was designed to slow things down, and protect the governed from a nutty few. Especially those with a purely political agenda. Just because you fail to understand something, or how it works doesn't mean it needs to be fixed.


Here’s how voting works: when you don’t get as many votes as the other side, you lose. I know alot of you Republican types struggle with this because you still think Trump “won” the 2020 election, but it’s actually a very simple concept.

54 senators who represent 32 states and well over 50% of the population of the entire country voted in favor of this. That’s not a “nutty few”, it’s a clear majority of 54-35 (the nine republicans that were too scared to show up don’t count).

I don’t know what you think you know about how the US government was “designed”, but the filibuster isn’t in the constitution. It didn’t formally exist until the senate rules were changed in the early 1800s, and what exists today isn’t even a real filibuster anymore in that there is no debate.
EMitch
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/29 07:57:18 (permalink)
MyWar
Here’s how voting works: when you don’t get as many votes as the other side, you lose.
 not a “nutty few”, it’s a clear majority of 54-35 
I don’t know what you think you know about how the US government was “designed”, 



You're right. It's a very simple concept. Did you flunk 9th grade civics class? Then you probably also failed Problems of Democracy as a senior. They seemed to explain the Constitution pretty well. You do remember the Constitution, dont' ya?Some votes require a super majority of the vote. In this case, 2/3 of the Senate to pass. Now let's see? How are you at math. I was thinkin' they'd need at least 66 votes. Your answer is wee bit off.
 
This whole thing is a farce. There are other investigations going on already. The 'Crats and the Rino's just want something more to keep their friends in the media engaged so the American people don't hear much about Iran, the Mid-East turmoil, China, Russia, inflation, and how the illegals are pouring across our "CLOSED???" border. Typical 'Crat stuff.

If you agree with the Progressive Democrats, that's freedom of speech. If you disagree, it's hate speech and racism.
ICE NUT
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/29 08:23:52 (permalink)
Emitch you are spot on they want the the American people to focus on that dog and pony show and forget about the mess the Ziden and giggles are doing to destroy the country. I do believe by the mid terms though there party and games will be over. Crime out of control,defund the police,abolish ice, rampart inflation,open borders,China and russia pushing sleepy Joe,Mid East a mess ya think they would be more concerned with those things but they are socialist demorats
MyWar
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/29 09:28:43 (permalink)
EMitch

You're right. It's a very simple concept. Did you flunk 9th grade civics class? Then you probably also failed Problems of Democracy as a senior. They seemed to explain the Constitution pretty well. You do remember the Constitution, dont' ya?Some votes require a super majority of the vote. In this case, 2/3 of the Senate to pass. Now let's see? How are you at math. I was thinkin' they'd need at least 66 votes. Your answer is wee bit off.


The filibuster isn’t in the constitution. It’s a procedural Senate rule. And it’s 60 votes to end debate through cloture on the senate floor and break a filibuster, not a 2/3 majority.

Yes, 2/3 super majorities are required to override a presidential veto (in both chambers of congress), but that isn’t what happened.

Here’s a question for you since you are the civics expert- Why is there no filibuster in the House?
JerryS
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/29 10:15:08 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby CAPTAIN HOOK 2021/05/29 17:00:26
I can understand not agreeing with Biden's policies, since that is the nature of "right vs left" politics. But Trump is the poster child for the ugly underbelly of our society, and has nothing to do with conservatism. 
 
IMO, anyone that still supports Trump holds zero value in political discussion and should just be ignored.  
JM2
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/29 14:07:34 (permalink)
MyWar
JM2
 Our government was designed to slow things down, and protect the governed from a nutty few. Especially those with a purely political agenda. Just because you fail to understand something, or how it works doesn't mean it needs to be fixed.

 
Here’s how voting works: when you don’t get as many votes as the other side, you lose. I know alot of you Republican types struggle with this because you still think Trump “won” the 2020 election, but it’s actually a very simple concept.
 
54 senators who represent 32 states and well over 50% of the population of the entire country voted in favor of this. That’s not a “nutty few”, it’s a clear majority of 54-35 (the nine republicans that were too scared to show up don’t count).
 
I don’t know what you think you know about how the US government was “designed”, but the filibuster isn’t in the constitution. It didn’t formally exist until the senate rules were changed in the early 1800s, and what exists today isn’t even a real filibuster anymore in that there is no debate.

 
 
No, here’s how it works, and yes it is a very simple concept.
 
https://www.cop.senate.go...-procedures/voting.htm
 
Of the 48 Democrat Senators that voted, all voted yea. These Democrat Senators do not represent the people nor the state that put them in office. Once elected they represent first, and foremost their political party, and only their political party, always in lock step. There are a few people that run the party, and they are calling all the shots. The same nutty few that determine what  people like you are to think, and believe from day to day.
 
These Senate rules have only been in place for over two hundred years? Now they need to be changed? If the rules do not benefit the Democrats, or do not benefit them enough now, they need to be changed. Change them now to benefit the Dems, and give them more control of the Senate. When the Dems become the minority party, change them back. At the current time the Dems could not possibly have less control of the Senate, and still be in charge.
 
Here’s a quote from your President in 2005 pertaining to eliminating the filibuster. What changed?
 
"It is not only a bad idea, it upsets the constitutional design, and it disservices the country," then-Sen. Biden said at the time about eliminating the practice. "No longer would the Senate be that ‘different kind of legislative body’ that the founders intended. No longer would the Senate be the ‘saucer’ to cool the passions of the immediate majority."
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
JM2
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/29 14:26:18 (permalink)
JerryS
I can understand not agreeing with Biden's policies, since that is the nature of "right vs left" politics. But Trump is the poster child for the ugly underbelly of our society, and has nothing to do with conservatism. 
 
IMO, anyone that still supports Trump holds zero value in political discussion and should just be ignored.  




I think what we are discussing are policies. Why drag "the But Trump" into the conversation. IMO, anyone that is so blinded by hate should just be ignored. You are also are "poster child" of sorts, and it's not a good look.
r3g3
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/29 14:50:15 (permalink)
He lives in their heads and the hate is fed to them often--
 
ex
- a day or two back Joe the mighty was saying how -a past president is responsible for all the street attacks on Asian people.
 
Funny how that didnt start in any numbers till after the mighty 'takem out back'  one was president for  while-- butt the libs just cant get enough of that kinda anti Trump stuff --they buy it every time too.
 
Ya could start a conversation about fishing not being so good in some waterway and by the beginning of the second paragraph they would start Trump bashing.
 
Its a disease----
 
 
Orrr - as I tend to believe-- they fear him-------------
post edited by r3g3 - 2021/05/29 14:53:36
MyWar
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/29 15:10:03 (permalink)
JM2
These Senate rules have only been in place for over two hundred years? Now they need to be changed? If the rules do not benefit the Democrats, or do not benefit them enough now, they need to be changed. Change them now to benefit the Dems, and give them more control of the Senate.


Well you said it was “designed” to slow things down. That is clearly not the case. The filibuster’s creation in 1806 was an accident when the rules were changed regarding requirements to end debate and move to a floor vote. It’s not in the constitution and it’s pretty widely acknowledged that the framers DID NOT intend for the passage of legislation in the senate to require super majorities to pass.

The republicans just changed the senate rules to eliminate the filibuster for Supreme Court nominees. They have no problems changing the rules when it benefits their interest so neither should democrats.

The filibuster isn’t the same as it was in 1806 anyway. In its original form it required a senator to keep talking because it constituted “debate” and 60 votes were required to end debate. Now it’s just the threat of a filibuster to shut down a bill. So it’s use has changed and evolved over the years.

The GOP has no interest in actual governance or bipartisanship. McConnell has come right out and said the only thing he wants do is shut down Biden’s agenda. If the only tool he has is the result of a 200 year old accident, which makes it possible for a 54-35 floor vote to be WON by the side with FEWER votes, then yea, it’s gotta go.

I don’t care what Biden said about it in 2005. He saw republicans play the obstruction game for Obama’s entire presidency. I’m sure that was a big factor in changing his opinion on the matter.
Porktown
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Re: Joe Biden 2021/05/29 16:10:23 (permalink)
JM2

I think what we are discussing are policies. Why drag "the But Trump" into the conversation. IMO, anyone that is so blinded by hate should just be ignored. You are also are "poster child" of sorts, and it's not a good look.

The Jan 6 commission is not policy.

But I do get what you are saying, I think. Turn on CNN or MSNBC and you would think slavery ended in November. “We need to make up for it”, seems to be a very vocal part of the Dem policy framework. “We need to expand on just about every social policy”, also seems to be the policy talking points. I think Trump is a despicable excuse for a human being, but I can completely understand why conservatives would take Trump over what is currently going on. But there are clearly better conservative options. Having Greene and Gaetz as the face of the party with Trump on the sidelines is pathetic. Dump the chumps and follow Cheney and others lead and could be a slam dunk. Joe and the Dem media is tossing underhand pitch softballs. The GOP is swinging at them with a rope with the cult in place. I really can’t be the only one that sees it that way???
post edited by Porktown - 2021/05/29 16:12:01
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