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MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/10 14:55:21 (permalink)
ICE NUT
r3, The reality is sooner or later the virus will be back! If you locked down early it will be back it didn't go away. If you waited to lock down now its spiking it really didn't matter .It won't be solved till a vaccine id available to all and its effective!! The midigation,lockdowns, masks,ect sound good but really its not stopping the virus. We must just do what we can Social distance best we can,wear mask when in public, it helps somewhat But its doesnn't stop it just puts it off till later sooner or later restrictions must be lifted and quess what it spikes!! Till immunity iit will be with us for the forseable future!!! 


You are under-stating and under-estimating what basic safety practices (mask wearing and social distancing) can accomplish. Lifting restrictions and surges are NOT inevitable.

Lets put the US response in perspective. Let’s compare the US to the EU; they are similar in size, diversity, wealth, etc... within both areas, there is a lot of variation from region to region, but on the whole, these two large areas are a fair comparison, right?

Look at the seven day rolling avg of cases per million at Our World in Data:

The US has 160
The EU has 9 (NINE!!)

Arizona has more cases than the entire EU !!!

There is no explanation or excuse for that discrepancy other than “we fukked up”.

By failing to get the outbreak under control, WE ARE DRAGGING IT OUT LONGER. The reason that some of these other countries are starting to get back to normal is because they have spent the past three months suppressing and controlling outbreaks and we have not. Now, they are in a position to re-open their schools and their economies without huge death tolls, and we are not.
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/10 14:56:36 (permalink)
https://ourworldindata.org/
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/10 14:59:45 (permalink)
MyWar
https://ourworldindata.org/



🤣😅😂😅🤣 OK 😉😉

MyLiar did you "click" the donate button at the bottom and donate part of your white collar, supervisory level, wage?
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2020/07/10 15:04:33

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JM2
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/10 15:23:29 (permalink)
MyWar

There is no explanation or excuse for that discrepancy other than “we fukked up”.

By failing to get the outbreak under control, WE ARE DRAGGING IT OUT LONGER. The reason that some of these other countries are starting to get back to normal is because they have spent the past three months suppressing and controlling outbreaks and we have not. Now, they are in a position to re-open their schools and their economies without huge death tolls, and we are not.



Check out the deaths per million people comparing USA to EU countries.
 
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/10 16:53:06 (permalink)
JM2
MyWar

There is no explanation or excuse for that discrepancy other than “we fukked up”.

By failing to get the outbreak under control, WE ARE DRAGGING IT OUT LONGER. The reason that some of these other countries are starting to get back to normal is because they have spent the past three months suppressing and controlling outbreaks and we have not. Now, they are in a position to re-open their schools and their economies without huge death tolls, and we are not.



Check out the deaths per million people comparing USA to EU countries.
 
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


Are those cumulative figures, since the emergence of the pandemic? If so, then they don’t really tell us that much because a number of variables have changed substantially in the last 3-4 months.

The figures I referenced were an average over the last 7 days. It compares where we are NOW, to where the EU is NOW.

If we are in the middle of a surge in cases NOW, then a surge in deaths is not far behind. Do you think people are just going to magically stop dying from the disease? Did we not just go through this exact same scenario three months ago?
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/10 17:12:39 (permalink)
JM2
MyWar

There is no explanation or excuse for that discrepancy other than “we fukked up”.

By failing to get the outbreak under control, WE ARE DRAGGING IT OUT LONGER. The reason that some of these other countries are starting to get back to normal is because they have spent the past three months suppressing and controlling outbreaks and we have not. Now, they are in a position to re-open their schools and their economies without huge death tolls, and we are not.



Check out the deaths per million people comparing USA to EU countries.
 
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/




 
From the Worldometer site you linked:
 
NEW DEATHS 7/9/20
USA +960
Spain +5
UK +85 (not sure if this is still being counted as EU)
Italy +12
Germany +10
France +14
Belgium +3
Norway +1
Sweden +13
Denmark +0
Finland +0
 
Do you see the pattern?
 
Its not a rolling average of deaths per million, but I can look that up next. I already know what its going to look like.
 
 
 
 
 
 
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/10 17:31:27 (permalink)
JM2
MyWar

There is no explanation or excuse for that discrepancy other than “we fukked up”.

By failing to get the outbreak under control, WE ARE DRAGGING IT OUT LONGER. The reason that some of these other countries are starting to get back to normal is because they have spent the past three months suppressing and controlling outbreaks and we have not. Now, they are in a position to re-open their schools and their economies without huge death tolls, and we are not.



Check out the deaths per million people comparing USA to EU countries.
 
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/




 
Here you go: Deaths per Million, rolling 7 day average:
 
 Use the slider to go all the way to the right so you can load and zoom in on today's data, and use "+ Add Country" option to add any country you want. Its a line graph, so you can also easily trends over time.
 
These are the figures for:
US 1.96 deaths / million (and rising)
Italy 0.26
Sweden 1.26
Germany 0.09
France 0.23
Netherlands 0.16
Denmark  0.07
Hungary  0.06
Norway 0.03
Finland 0.03
Greece 0.01
Czech Republic 0.01
 
Canada 0.40
 
Cherry picking isn't going to fool me dude. 
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/10 18:28:38 (permalink)
MyLiar

Cherry picking isn't going to fool me dude.




Yep it's well known, ya can't fool a fool. Dude 🙄

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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JM2
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/10 21:37:59 (permalink)
MyWar
JM2
MyWar

There is no explanation or excuse for that discrepancy other than “we fukked up”.

By failing to get the outbreak under control, WE ARE DRAGGING IT OUT LONGER. The reason that some of these other countries are starting to get back to normal is because they have spent the past three months suppressing and controlling outbreaks and we have not. Now, they are in a position to re-open their schools and their economies without huge death tolls, and we are not.



Check out the deaths per million people comparing USA to EU countries.
 
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/




 
Here you go: Deaths per Million, rolling 7 day average:
 
 Use the slider to go all the way to the right so you can load and zoom in on today's data, and use "+ Add Country" option to add any country you want. Its a line graph, so you can also easily trends over time.
 
These are the figures for:
US 1.96 deaths / million (and rising)
Italy 0.26
Sweden 1.26
Germany 0.09
France 0.23
Netherlands 0.16
Denmark  0.07
Hungary  0.06
Norway 0.03
Finland 0.03
Greece 0.01
Czech Republic 0.01
 
Canada 0.40
 
Cherry picking isn't going to fool me dude. 




The link was provided to show that the total deaths/million in the US was still significantly lower than most EU countries. I don't know, and I know you don't know, but the number of new deaths being lower in the EU, may be that it has already killed most of the people it's going to kill. It may of ran it's course there. In a month or two our number of deaths/million may end up looking similar to Europe's numbers. When all is said and done the US, and the EU may end up at the same place, but got there in different ways. Just a possibility, and only a guess. But I'm actually hoping that since the US managed to flatten the curve that our numbers will be lower because our hospitals weren't overburdened like in some EU nations. 
 
Looking at the number of new deaths in CA, TX, and FL that are now spiking. In each state their number of total deaths are still far below NY, and NJ, even though they have larger populations. 
JM2
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/10 21:42:49 (permalink)
MyWar
 
 
Cherry picking isn't going to fool me dude. 




I'm well aware you know what cherrypicking is.... your posts are full of it.
Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/10 21:48:23 (permalink)
They better be lower! The virus hit NY before we knew much at all about it. NY was slow to close. Imagine if one of these “we need to stay open at all costs” leaders was in charge of N.Y., how much worse it would have been? It is ridiculous that any of these cities/states are in the mess they are in now with NY, New Orleans and others showing that it can get out of control quick. Unless it is all just a hoax?
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/10 22:58:19 (permalink)
JM2
 
The link was provided to show that the total deaths/million in the US was still significantly lower than most EU countries.

 
But the aggregate totals don't mean anything. The data I linked to indicates that US deaths per million are WAY HIGHER RIGHT NOW. It doesn't matter what it was in March, it matters what it is NOW, because that tells us how prevalent the infection is in the population NOW.
 
JM2
I don't know, and I know you don't know, but the number of new deaths being lower in the EU, may be that it has already killed most of the people it's going to kill. It may of ran it's course there.

 
It sounds like you may be referring to herd immunity (?), and nope, there is absolutely no reason to believe that even the hardest hit areas are anywhere close to herd immunity. Spain may be at 5%, and we would need at least 70-90% of the population to have antibodies in order to have herd immunity. Sweden played the herd immunity game and lost big time.
 
JM2
In a month or two our number of deaths/million may end up looking similar to Europe's numbers. When all is said and done the US, and the EU may end up at the same place, but got there in different ways. Just a possibility, and only a guess. But I'm actually hoping that since the US managed to flatten the curve that our numbers will be lower because our hospitals weren't overburdened like in some EU nations. Looking at the number of new deaths in CA, TX, and FL that are now spiking. In each state their number of total deaths are still far below NY, and NJ, even though they have larger populations.  

 
(1) You don't base public health decisions that can result in hundreds of thousands of dead American on "may end up", or "just a possibility, only a guess".
(2) The areas that are seeing spikes in cases are beginning to see spikes in deaths and their healthcare facilities are reaching peak capacity. Arizona ICU beds were at 90% according to this article from July 2. Remember, there is a lag between exposure and symptoms and death. If we are seeing a spike in cases now, the spike in deaths is probably 10-14 days behind it. And the number of deaths is only going to increase until the area goes into a hard lockdown.
 
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/10 23:36:33 (permalink)
Let me see, supposing MyLiars anti-America source on Covid-19 stats is somewhere near accurate. Then one can say, the spikes in cases,  spikes in deaths, healthcare facilities reaching peak capacity, should be expected immediately following the FDA recalling the use of hydroxychloroquine.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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JM2
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/11 01:12:34 (permalink)
MyWar
 
(1) You don't base public health decisions that can result in hundreds of thousands of dead American on "may end up", or "just a possibility, only a guess".



But I am not making public health decisions that may result in hundreds of thousands of deaths. I'm only suggesting possible outcomes, and they are only guesses. The thing is, I realize my views on this topic are guesses. You do not seem to realize that your views are also guesses. How many articles do you have to read before you become an expert?
 
 
DarDys
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/11 08:07:51 (permalink)
Don’t know where I heard it yesterday, but the comment was, “If Dr. Fauci were a dentist, he would want you flossing 22 hours a day.”

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/11 08:30:10 (permalink)
Instead we should listen to, flossing and brushing aren’t necessary. The “top Dentists” have been doing it for 40+ years, but there are still cavities, so must know nothing. Why not gargle with cat urine, there is one study that claims it may help.
post edited by Porktown - 2020/07/11 08:43:14
LDD
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/11 11:34:02 (permalink)
Well, the southern state experiment of “deny reality and pretend” doesn’t work. The rest of the country might lose any gains made by mitigation efforts in the spring because of this brainless approach.

What exactly is the plan here? There appears not to be one and that is pretty unbelievable in my book. We should be coming together and making strides, instead we are divided and in deep trouble.
DarDys
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/11 11:46:47 (permalink)
Porktown
Instead we should listen to, flossing and brushing aren’t necessary. The “top Dentists” have been doing it for 40+ years, but there are still cavities, so must know nothing. Why not gargle with cat urine, there is one study that claims it may help.


No, we should not go to extremes. In either direction. On anything.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/11 12:20:43 (permalink)
LDD
Well, the southern state experiment of “deny reality and pretend” doesn’t work. The rest of the country might lose any gains made by mitigation efforts in the spring because of this brainless approach.

What exactly is the plan here? There appears not to be one and that is pretty unbelievable in my book. We should be coming together and making strides, instead we are divided and in deep trouble.


🤔 What.... "exactly" is the plan here???🙄

Welllllp, 🤔 I think the question should include; if Trump had "some" cooperation from Pelosi & Schumer?

Butt that has not happened in three + years. Sooo now, the POTUS needs help from the American people, if we're allowed to get to our voting polls this November.

Good question though. "What exactly is the plan here? " yessir, mighty good question.

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
ICE NUT
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/11 15:04:38 (permalink)
It still amazes me that the majority on this forum actually thinks that the doctors,politicans actually can stop this virus and the deaths. This thing can be delayed but it won't be solved till a viable vaccine is available and administered to all.We can midigate,hide,social whatever till the cows come home but all we will do is delay the virus,and for how long can we do that?? month,3 months a year,really no jobs,no schools, and for the people who can't live without their sports hero's well no sports.HOW LONG can we stay shut down???? Our leaders haven't done any worse of a job pretending to know what to do than any other country this thing has wrecked havoc on everyone in spite of locking down or opening up results are the same.
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/11 15:55:24 (permalink)
Icenut, just as with other challenges in life, chance it.

The same underlying medical conditions making the Covid so dangerous, make the common flu dangerous to those with like medical conditions.

A vaccine?? Look how many vaccines are now needed for the various common flu so one vaccine, that will control Covid-19, not likely.


According to Bill De Blasio's new mask law, being a "peaceful protester" is the best bet for fending off Covid-19. "Peaceful protesters" can ignore all Covid-19 mandates in NY City.

In other matters, I know of no family, friends or neighbors who know of anyone testing positive for Covid-19 annnnnnnd I've been around the block.
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2020/07/11 16:01:07

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/11 16:14:36 (permalink)
JM2
MyWar
 
(1) You don't base public health decisions that can result in hundreds of thousands of dead American on "may end up", or "just a possibility, only a guess".



But I am not making public health decisions that may result in hundreds of thousands of deaths. I'm only suggesting possible outcomes, and they are only guesses. The thing is, I realize my views on this topic are guesses. You do not seem to realize that your views are also guesses. How many articles do you have to read before you become an expert?
 
 


First of all... It’s not a “guess” when I say that other countries are doing a better job of containing the virus. Statistics clearly show it’s happening.

Second, a “guess” from an individual that has studied science, medicine or epidemiology for DECADES is worth more than a “guess” from some random person that hasn’t.

I think we could all agree that much of fishing has some element of guess work in it, right? But yet people who know the body of water they are fishing, and the habits of the species they are targeting, and understand the importance of things like bait presentation and different weather conditions, etc... those people will consistently catch more fish than a person who just “guesses”, right? We can agree on that?

So imagine you are on a new body of water, targeting a species of fish you are unfamiliar with. You tell me which is a better strategy for getting onto some fish: (1) hire an expert guide to tell you what to do, or (2) guess.

And then explain to me why a GLOBAL PANDEMIC is different.
JM2
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/11 17:14:02 (permalink)
MyWar
First of all... It’s not a “guess” when I say that other countries are doing a better job of containing the virus. Statistics clearly show it’s happening.

Second, a “guess” from an individual that has studied science, medicine or epidemiology for DECADES is worth more than a “guess” from some random person that hasn’t.


 
A much better job? Then why do those countries in the EU have a much higher death rate per million, than the US? We don't use those numbers?
 
Where did you study?
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/11 17:17:26 (permalink)
LDD
Well, the southern state experiment of “deny reality and pretend” doesn’t work. The rest of the country might lose any gains made by mitigation efforts in the spring because of this brainless approach.

What exactly is the plan here? There appears not to be one and that is pretty unbelievable in my book. We should be coming together and making strides, instead we are divided and in deep trouble.



If you don't know the Plan by now, then you haven't been paying attention for the last three and a half years.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/13 08:46:08 (permalink)
ICE NUT
It still amazes me that the majority on this forum actually thinks that the doctors,politicans actually can stop this virus and the deaths. This thing can be delayed but it won't be solved till a viable vaccine is available and administered to all.We can midigate,hide,social whatever till the cows come home but all we will do is delay the virus,and for how long can we do that?? month,3 months a year,really no jobs,no schools, and for the people who can't live without their sports hero's well no sports.HOW LONG can we stay shut down???? Our leaders haven't done any worse of a job pretending to know what to do than any other country this thing has wrecked havoc on everyone in spite of locking down or opening up results are the same.


Spanish flu started showing in early 1918.  First flu vaccine was developed in 1933.
 
 
DarDys
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/13 09:15:23 (permalink)
What’s your point?

Less than 13 years ago, there were no smart phones, now look what we have.

Science, technology, communication have all advanced at rapid pace. In 1918, most wars were fought in foot or at best horses (yes, there were a few tanks and some biplanes), so unless your point was just to be contrary, there is no comparison between 1918 and 2020 on any front.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/13 09:49:09 (permalink)
DarDys
What’s your point?



 
ICENUT
it won't be solved till a viable vaccine is available and administered to all.

LDD
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/13 14:01:43 (permalink)
No worries...it’s all a political hoax...you know how I know?? I just went to a small town doctor for a physical and he told me so. He even pulled out his old medical reference book and showed me a section on Coronavirus from a book copyrighted 35 years ago. That proves it’s been around for a long time...ya know? . He asked me my political affiliation in the middle of the explanation. I said, INDEPENDENT. 🇺🇸 God help us.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/13 14:37:29 (permalink)
LDD
No worries...it’s all a political hoax...you know how I know?? I just went to a small town doctor for a physical and he told me so. He even pulled out his old medical reference book and showed me a section on Coronavirus from a book copyrighted 35 years ago. That proves it’s been around for a long time...ya know? . He asked me my political affiliation in the middle of the explanation. I said, INDEPENDENT. 🇺🇸 God help us.



Would it be plagiarism if I would ask..... WHAT'S YOUR POINT??

We already knew of Corona Virus being around.

We even know the virus can mutate and now we have Covid-19....... "the boogeyman."

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
LDD
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/07/13 14:42:38 (permalink)
Oh, I don’t know? Maybe medical professionals should take the whole thing a bit more seriously. That’s probably my point. I
post edited by LDD - 2020/07/13 14:47:17
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