Helpful ReplyHot!Coronavirus opinions

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BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/08 10:14:42 (permalink)
JerryS thank you kindly for the retirement flowers.

No need to leave this or any other board. You sound like a reasonable person to converse with.

You are correct, I do see things in black and white. Unfortunately, over the past several decades, the anti-America journalist have caused the black & white to bleed into a very very dark & 'shady' gray.

As for my retirement, I certainly wish I could of waited. Had I been in the 'work force future' as compared to 'work force past' 🤔well ya know what they say about knowing then, what ya know now.🤗

Take care, be safe & be well.

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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bigfoot
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/08 12:12:25 (permalink)
JerryS
Thanks for the welcome-back. 
 
You see things too black and white, us vs them, etc...  Just because someone despises Trump, doesn't mean they are a far-left wing, Hilliary lovin, socialist. 
This lock down has given me too much free time and I foolishly dipped my toe into a political debate.  I now regret my decision and I have no desire to continue. 
 
Take care and have fun in your retirement.


Too bad you are leaving. Perhaps yo would reconsider. All opinions posted here not always agreed with, but it's nice to read different viewpoints on the various issues. It would be very boring to me if everybody had the same point of view and agreed with what others here posted. A little back and forth and and disagreeing about certain topics keeps things interesting. I would hope that could be accomplished without personal attacks leading to hard feelings. In times such as these, people, me included, seem to be a little more stressed out than usual, and perhaps leads them to vent more than they are accustomed to.
post edited by bigfoot - 2020/04/08 15:42:43

"The cause of freedom is not the cause of race or a sect, a party or a class-it is the cause of human kind, the very birthright of humanity."Quote by Anna Julia Cooper.
 
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/08 13:30:24 (permalink)
Well said ... Bigfoot.

I agree too, with the stressed part.

It's no secrete, from the beginning of this board I've stressed my feeling toward the news media.


Stupid news media.🙉

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/08 22:47:15 (permalink)
Anybody see Chuck Schumer putting on his show, walking to the podium wearing a mask..... under his nose. When he got there, he couldn't wait to remove the mask. 😁

How about Shelia Jackson constantly repositioning her mask..... touching her face?? 😳

Excuse me for laughing at these people, they make me sick.
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2020/04/08 22:53:23

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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r3g3
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/09 15:09:14 (permalink)
In other 'ya cant make this stuff up" news-
-- I see the WHO director quickly played the race card when confronted with more accusations bout being too chummy with China and NOT being forthright with info.
Imagine our press making nutty T accusations when the guy in charge of the WORLD health was playing word games favoring China.
Then this guy goes and plays the race card just like soooo many US dems and press--- kinda says it all IMHO.
 
In other news China just reclassified DOGS from Livestock to Pets.
Yep - now they really eat their pets.
 
Ya cant make this stuff up.
post edited by r3g3 - 2020/04/09 15:45:51
EMitch
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/09 19:05:06 (permalink)
You need to go back and re-check the Chinese figures. Originated in Wuhan province, (or county) with only a total of 2500 deaths, no new cases in more than a week, and re-opening up for business. Considering the U.S. has lost over 14,000 so far, and then consider the proximity of the Chinese, (something like 850K in Wuhan alone), I'd believe the Chinese probably had over 50,000 deaths and they're still dying; the government is just lying about it. Just saw yesterday that they have new infections in 3 more provinces, so it's far worse than they're going to admit. It is a Chinese epidemic, which spread quickly through the southeast Asian peninsula. The last port of call for the Aircraft Carrier Roosevelt was the Republic of Viet Nam, and now she's sittin' in Guam with over 400 cases of Covid-19. Italy has thousands of deaths, mostly in the northern part where up to 100K Chinese are at. It sure don't look like rocket science, does it?

For Liberals, whenever reality conflicts with ideology, it is reality that must change.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/09 19:09:34 (permalink)
DarDys
The thing is how much faith is put into these models, which, in the end, are similar to the algorithms used to model — the weather.




 
From the creators of the model driving all of our federal and state policy decisions for the past two weeks:
 

 
 
 
 
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/09 19:57:38 (permalink)
Attention Citizens! Your Department of Panic and Fear wishes to officially confirm that they will continue to make things up as it suits their interests.  
 
Dr. Birx this week: 
“We’ve taken a very liberal approach with regards to mortality.  There are other countries that if you had a pre-existing condition, and let’s say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem. Some countries are recording that as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death.” 
 
The CDC this week:
“In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely, it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as ‘probable’ or ‘presumed.’  “In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgment in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely.”
 
Ohio today:
Health departments across Ohio now will include people who show symptoms of having contracting the coronavirus but who have not been tested, said Michael Dohn, medical director, Public Health - Dayton & Montgomery County. The change in how patients will be counted doesn’t mean things are worse, he said, but it means health care professionals will get a better count of who is sick and has COVID-19, whether confirmed by a test or not.
 
 
 
 
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/09 21:13:36 (permalink)
rsquared we saw an interview with a doctor talking about that very subject.

Shouldn't be surprise, it's common practice with any special interest group. Dude smoking cigarette steps in front of bus. Death cert. reads; dude died from smoking in conjunction to underlying... a bus.

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/09 21:34:21 (permalink)
Boris Johnson moved from ICU.

All y'all should read the news articles coming from the UK.

Merely exchange Trump with Boris and US for UK.

Same story different country.

#HeKnew.
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2020/04/09 21:36:08

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 09:35:07 (permalink)
Here is a good read on the head of the CDC explaining reintegration.
 
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/10/831200054/cdc-director-very-aggressive-contact-tracing-needed-for-u-s-to-return-to-normal
 
He notes in here how many other countries do contact tracing.  Other countries do not respect privacy or other civil liberties like we do.  Is that something we are willing to give up in the short term, to hopefully avert long term issues?
 
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 10:13:49 (permalink)
rsquared
DarDys
The thing is how much faith is put into these models, which, in the end, are similar to the algorithms used to model — the weather.




 
From the creators of the model driving all of our federal and state policy decisions for the past two weeks:
 

 
 
 
 


Almost 17,000 dead Americans as of 10am today. That is with three weeks of the most extreme shelter in place + social distancing measures we have her seen. Many areas of the country have not even begun to see a flattening of the curve. And you think what? It’s all made up? It’s some kind of hoax? You really think that hundreds of thousands of people wouldn’t have died if we didn’t lock everything down?

What is your motive for pushing a narrative that undermines confidence in these models? You think it makes Dear Leader look better if you can sabotage Fauci and Birx’s credibility?
Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 10:21:02 (permalink)
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ex-nyt-reporter-challenging-the-coronavirus-narrative
 
There is no doubt that some of the models are flawed.  Like the one in this story, that DeWine in OH had used.
 
It is fair to question the modeling, but not sure if it is good public policy to go against them.  Just like hurricane modeling.  If many are saying that there is a very good chance of Cat 4 hurricane hitting Miami, you can't have a policy of "let's just see what happens".  On the flip side, you don't evacuate Alabama, due to someone with no sense of weather patterns drawing in with a sharpie, that the hurricane will hit there...
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 10:39:37 (permalink)
rsquared
Attention Citizens! Your Department of Panic and Fear wishes to officially confirm that they will continue to make things up as it suits their interests.  
 
Dr. Birx this week: 
“We’ve taken a very liberal approach with regards to mortality.  There are other countries that if you had a pre-existing condition, and let’s say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem. Some countries are recording that as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death.” 
 
The CDC this week:
“In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely, it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as ‘probable’ or ‘presumed.’  “In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgment in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely.”
 
Ohio today:
Health departments across Ohio now will include people who show symptoms of having contracting the coronavirus but who have not been tested, said Michael Dohn, medical director, Public Health - Dayton & Montgomery County. The change in how patients will be counted doesn’t mean things are worse, he said, but it means health care professionals will get a better count of who is sick and has COVID-19, whether confirmed by a test or not.
 
 
 
 


To add to that r, my local news had been stating that Blair Ana Cambria counties have four cases each. They have been stating that for over 3 weeks.

After 3 weeks, either the person has died (could be, but I haven’t heard of any, but don’t watch the local news regularly or get the newspaper) or recovered (2 week standard recovery period). Either way that means those counties have zero cases because the original cases have been resolved. It might seem like a minor semantics point, but it is the difference between HAVE four cases and HAD four cases. And that difference is there have been no new cases since the originals.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 10:47:19 (permalink)
😁H L👀K it's MyCryer

What is your motive for pushing a narrative that undermines confidence in these models? You think it makes Dear Leader look better if you can sabotage Fauci and Birx’s credibility?




🤔 "What is your motive for pushing a narrative ......?" would be a great question to pose at Fauci & Birx, would it not???

Raise your hand if y'all want to guess, what he would be saying if Fauci & Birx didn't fit "MyCryers" rhetoric.


Hey speaking of models, did all y'all see the model out of AALTO UNIVERSITY showing how a cough spreads???

When I saw it I was quite taken by surprise..... I had to take a second look to be certain, the caption read "university".
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2020/04/10 10:48:56

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 10:47:40 (permalink)
Porktown
Here is a good read on the head of the CDC explaining reintegration.
 
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/10/831200054/cdc-director-very-aggressive-contact-tracing-needed-for-u-s-to-return-to-normal
 
He notes in here how many other countries do contact tracing.  Other countries do not respect privacy or other civil liberties like we do.  Is that something we are willing to give up in the short term, to hopefully avert long term issues?
 


The push/pull between privacy and public safety has been an ongoing debate in civil libertarian circles for some time. It’s the same question we had to ask ourselves in the wake of 9/11, and we ended up giving the government WAY too much power as a result.

Contact tracing doesn’t strike me as something that is inherently as invasive as say, a lot of the eavesdropping powers that were granted to the NSA. But it could for sure open a pathway to abuse.

I can’t see the current administration really doing much of anything at the federal level. But I think some local government agencies may try to devote some resources to this strategy if/when outbreaks pop up.

The challenges are going to be funding and personnel. As the article states, it’s a labor intensive process, and a lot of local governments won’t have the resources to do it. I doubt the federal government is going to get involved because “federalism”... so it’s probably gonna be a moot point as soon as it drops off our radar... Until it pops up again and then we go through this whole thing all over again.
post edited by MyWar - 2020/04/10 10:49:07
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 10:58:32 (permalink)
MyWar
The challenges are going to be funding and personnel. As the article states, it’s a labor intensive process, and a lot of local governments won’t have the resources to do it. I doubt the federal government is going to get involved because “federalism”... so it’s probably gonna be a moot point as soon as it drops off our radar... Until it pops up again and then we go through this whole thing all over again.

They are thinking that this is how they will have to attack the reintegration.  So, something they are going to need to figure out soon.  I think the Feds will take the lead, but will require state and local government help and a lot of help of the private sector in producing testing.  It sounds like the CDC is in the planning phase.  So, hopefully something they are sharing with the other entities.  The faster this is done, the faster we open back up.
 
Just as the Patriot Act should have been, it should have been set for a limited time, with only a public vote to allow it to be renewed.  I think the Patriot Act was honestly what Congress thought was needed at the time and imagine most, even some civil libertarians would have agreed was "fine" for limited use to meet that crisis.  The feds abusing the act, having it morph into a dangerous thing.
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 11:17:57 (permalink)
🤔Just wondering, "contact tracing" be sorta like "profiling"??

Here's another thought 🤔 terrorist are known to wear explosive vest and walk into crowded public places so replace those explosive vest with person (s) (purposely) infected with a deadly (to all) fast spreading virus?

Welp... gotta go, time for my rigourous physical therapy exercise.

😴💤💤💤

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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Fisherlady2
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 11:22:24 (permalink)
DarDys
rsquared
Attention Citizens! Your Department of Panic and Fear wishes to officially confirm that they will continue to make things up as it suits their interests.  
 
Dr. Birx this week: 
“We’ve taken a very liberal approach with regards to mortality.  There are other countries that if you had a pre-existing condition, and let’s say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem. Some countries are recording that as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death.” 
 
The CDC this week:
“In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely, it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as ‘probable’ or ‘presumed.’  “In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgment in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely.”
 
Ohio today:
Health departments across Ohio now will include people who show symptoms of having contracting the coronavirus but who have not been tested, said Michael Dohn, medical director, Public Health - Dayton & Montgomery County. The change in how patients will be counted doesn’t mean things are worse, he said, but it means health care professionals will get a better count of who is sick and has COVID-19, whether confirmed by a test or not.
 
 
 
 


To add to that r, my local news had been stating that Blair Ana Cambria counties have four cases each. They have been stating that for over 3 weeks.

After 3 weeks, either the person has died (could be, but I haven’t heard of any, but don’t watch the local news regularly or get the newspaper) or recovered (2 week standard recovery period). Either way that means those counties have zero cases because the original cases have been resolved. It might seem like a minor semantics point, but it is the difference between HAVE four cases and HAD four cases. And that difference is there have been no new cases since the originals.


The local news must be outdated....
Blair has 6 cases, no deaths
Cambria County is at 10 cases with 1 death
Fisherlady2
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 11:51:46 (permalink)
Actually, Dept of Health #s updated...
Cambria at 11 with 1 death
Blair at 9 with no deaths listed
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 12:07:02 (permalink)
Porktown
Just as the Patriot Act should have been, it should have been set for a limited time, with only a public vote to allow it to be renewed. 


Some country did this with their emergency corona virus legislation. They called it a “sunset clause” or something. I want to say it was Denmark.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 12:19:16 (permalink)
Denmark is a country to keep an eye on.  They are bucking the trend of how they are handling.  Having barely any legislation or shutdowns.  Will be interesting to see how they play out in metrics in the next few weeks.  Granted, they are a socialist democracy, so whatever the outcome, they are evil mind suckers.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 12:25:25 (permalink)
Porktown
MyWar
The challenges are going to be funding and personnel. As the article states, it’s a labor intensive process, and a lot of local governments won’t have the resources to do it. I doubt the federal government is going to get involved because “federalism”... so it’s probably gonna be a moot point as soon as it drops off our radar... Until it pops up again and then we go through this whole thing all over again.

They are thinking that this is how they will have to attack the reintegration.  So, something they are going to need to figure out soon.  I think the Feds will take the lead, but will require state and local government help and a lot of help of the private sector in producing testing.  It sounds like the CDC is in the planning phase.  So, hopefully something they are sharing with the other entities.  The faster this is done, the faster we open back up.


I think it’s also gonna depend on what specific tactics we are talking about. Like are we talking Orwellian surveillance stuff? Cell phone tracking so the CDC can tell where you’ve been and who you’ve been in contact with? Stuff like that?

It’s likely gonna be cheaper to use technology to track our movements than it would be to track everything manually. Having a technological infrastructure in place to monitor your movement will be extremely efficient but obviously there is huge potential for abuse.

On the other hand if you have dedicated personnel trained to jump in and start manually contact tracing as soon as an outbreak appears... yea it will be more clunky, expensive and time consuming, but less intrusive on privacy (and possibly less effective).

If costs are the driving factor in your decision making process then you can see which way this will go.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 13:03:08 (permalink)
Porktown
Denmark is a country to keep an eye on.  They are bucking the trend of how they are handling.  Having barely any legislation or shutdowns. 


If we had thoughtful, intelligent, competent leadership of the federal government, then we would be looking at the responses of dozens of different countries ... countries that handled it better, or countries that handled it worse... we could be learning what worked and what didnt... or we could be learning how we can we improve our response next time, or how we could we manage these crises so that fewer people die and we see less disruption to our economy.

Is Trump concerned about these things? It does not appear that way.

But it does appear as if he is very concerned about the TV ratings for his press conferences. And he is very interested in bragging about those ratings on Twitter.

TV ratings and “getting back to normal” so he can get back to his little cult rallies and the golf course- that’s what is important to Trump. That is “leadership”.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 13:29:10 (permalink)
MyWar
It’s likely gonna be cheaper to use technology to track our movements than it would be to track everything manually. Having a technological infrastructure in place to monitor your movement will be extremely efficient but obviously there is huge potential for abuse.



Yeah, it will be interesting.  Per that article, South Korea used cell phone data (imagine China used video inside of peoples homes...).  Not sure if most people would approve of the government having access to their call records.  But if it is able to deter another mass shutdown, what do we do?  I like the idea of temporary access for this purpose only.  But our elected officials are full of a bunch of chiteaters that would have no issues abusing it, just as they did the Patriot Act.  No win situation we are in, kind of like then.
 
MyWar
Is Trump concerned about these things? It does not appear that way.

But it does appear as if he is very concerned about the TV ratings for his press conferences. And he is very interested in bragging about those ratings on Twitter.

 
Exactly how I see things.  And boggles my mind that others do not see this when he is on the stage at these briefings.  He sounds/acts like a brat child or more likely, an old man with dementia that has lost all sense of decency.
 
I know you probably wouldn't agree, but have been very impressed with Mike Pence.  How he has handled things in the past few weeks (besides the constant arsekissing of Dear Leader).  He has shown what I believe we as a country need right now.  A compassionate speaker that a country can rally behind.  He sounds very similar to Andrew Cuomo right now.  Regardless of policy/political view, if either would give a speech like JFK, "Ask not what your country can do for you", it would last generations.  Trump will only last generations as the butt of jokes.  Calling him a circus clown, is insulting to circus clowns at this point.
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 13:50:29 (permalink)
MyWar


Is Trump concerned about these things? It does not appear that way.

But it does appear as if he is very concerned about the TV ratings for his press conferences. And he is very interested in bragging about those ratings on Twitter.

TV ratings and “getting back to normal” so he can get back to his little cult rallies and the golf course- that’s what is important to Trump. That is “leadership”.



 
Only by one who has tunnel vision of 'stink-eye' and worships schadenfreude (A/K/A; 幸灾乐祸)

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 14:26:02 (permalink)
I haven’t seen much of Pence. I despise his politics, but at least he has the ability to form complete sentences when he speaks. We are setting the bar so low at this point.

But saying the right thing in front of the camera isn’t the same as coordinating and organizing something as gargantuan as the federal government’s response to a global pandemic event + the collapse of the US economy. You need smart, competent people with organizational skills, not just in the leadership positions, but at all levels of your response team. And Trump has none of these things. The only people left working for him are goons and yes men.

And yes, it’s infuriating that he has this legion or brainwashed Fox News zombies that think he’s Jesus Christ. But he also has the entire US Republican Party covering for him. That’s the real tragedy. Every republican that is still covering for him is complicit in this disaster.
Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 15:28:35 (permalink)
MyWar
I haven’t seen much of Pence. I despise his politics, but at least he has the ability to form complete sentences when he speaks. We are setting the bar so low at this point.

But saying the right thing in front of the camera isn’t the same as coordinating and organizing something as gargantuan as the federal government’s response to a global pandemic event + the collapse of the US economy. You need smart, competent people with organizational skills, not just in the leadership positions, but at all levels of your response team. And Trump has none of these things. The only people left working for him are goons and yes men.

And yes, it’s infuriating that he has this legion or brainwashed Fox News zombies that think he’s Jesus Christ. But he also has the entire US Republican Party covering for him. That’s the real tragedy. Every republican that is still covering for him is complicit in this disaster.

Agree the bar is set low.  I watched Gov Cuomo a few days ago and was hard to not think, that is a leader regardless of political view.  Then watched Trump and felt like it was like some sort of joke.  Talking the same subject, so it wasn't political.  It was 100% talking about the crisis in NY, talking data and other things.  Cuomo was very kind and thoughtful of his limited words about the Feds and Trump.  He thanked him for setting up the Javits temporary hospital and the Naval ship.  Trump has done a lot for NYC and gave him the credit.  That said, when explaining things, he went into detail of "here is what we know" and "models say this, but we know that they aren't always correct", he went into detail to cover everything or what he thinks is needed and their plan to get those things.  Trump goes on and starts complaining about people not giving him enough credit or gratitude.  He cuts off reporters and starts calling them fake news and working for failing organizations.  For the hour he was on TV, he had maybe one helpful and coherent thought come through.
 
Pence came on after.  Whether it was the bar being set so low after watching in astonishment of Trump speaking, Pence came out calm and to the point.  Also explained some things the Doctor's said.  He was very clear in "I am not a Doctor" but here are my thoughts, and asked the Doctors if his thoughts were far off or would hamper their advice.  I appreciate those who are religious, although I feel many politicians that are "religious" use it as a marketing tool, more than their actual beliefs.  He started talking prayer and honestly, I was sold on his sincerity and his belief in faith.  And used it in a very appropriate way.  Where some (Trump), will only reference it, in a very scripted fashion that comes off as insulting to anyone that is religious.
 
I understand what you are saying about the yes men thing too.  I do think many could be very competent at their positions with a leader that has them do their job, with service to the people of the country as their priority.  I do get the sense that Pence would not lead as "do for me", but "do for your country".  I am really thinking he is the reason that our government hasn't collapsed.  I imagine that he does ALOT behind the scenes while doing his best to keep Trump tweeting, golfing and rambling, to keep him from interrupting those that are trying to run the government. 
LDD
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 15:34:29 (permalink)
Well, I just hope Ammon Bundy wears a mask to his Easter service.  
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2020/04/10 16:01:43 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Fisherlady2 2020/04/10 16:39:53
MyWar
Almost 17,000 dead Americans as of 10am today. That is with three weeks of the most extreme shelter in place + social distancing measures we have her seen. Many areas of the country have not even begun to see a flattening of the curve. And you think what? It’s all made up? It’s some kind of hoax? You really think that hundreds of thousands of people wouldn’t have died if we didn’t lock everything down? 

What is your motive for pushing a narrative that undermines confidence in these models? You think it makes Dear Leader look better if you can sabotage Fauci and Birx’s credibility?



I think I've been pretty clear in this thread about what I think about the actual disease itself and its impacts on individuals and healthcare systems.  To be concerned about the economic and other real world impacts and why those impacts came about doesn't negate concern about the direct personal and health care impacts of the virus itself.    
 
I don't have to push a narrative that undermines confidence in these models.  The models themselves have done a fine job in proving how wrong they have been from the get go.  
 
In case you didn't read the text in that screenshot from the UW model that the modelers posted themselves yesterday on Twitter: "As data come in our estimates will change, much like the weather."   
 
Now don't you think that if a month ago Dr. Fauci put his trust in a model and told us that he believed 2 million people would die in the best case scenario with full social distancing, and that model showed itself to be incredibly flawed, that he would consider a little more seriously the next model in which he would put all his confidence?  Like actually ask somebody, "Hey guys, how reliable is this model because the last one we trusted absolutely bombed?  Has it been peer reviewed?  What are other modelers saying?  What are the potential flaws in this model?  Because we're dealing with a virus that just a month ago I thought would kill millions in the best case scenario and now we're seeing that that's not even close to reality, so before we go with another public number that might cause more fear and panic and more irreversible real world impact while we respond appropriately to the impact of the virus itself to save lives and reduce burdens on the healthcare system, let's make sure the data is solid and based in reality of what's actually happening."  
 
What does it say to our country - those who are impacted directly by the disease, those putting their lives on the line on the front lines, those unemployed who don't know how they'll feed their families or pay their bills, small business owners who will never recover, and those most impacted - for this model to come out publicly and say, "Yeah, we're about as accurate as your local weather forecaster but you should keep trusting us."  
 
What does it say to our country - including all of those above - when our leading medical voices around the country are saying, we're going to fudge the data on this, maybe by thousands or tens of thousands when it's all said and done, to show that we were right in shutting down the economy and adding to the negative impacts of this based on bad models. 
 
I am almost completely unaffected personally by the shuttering of the economy.  My wife has had her hours and pay reduced by half for now, but we will survive, and the small business she works for should make it through this if it's allowed to operate fully by the end of May.  We both are able to take turns helping our 4th grader with his online school work, and our 10th grader and college sophomore can take care of their school work themselves.  We have food in our fridge and freezers; gas in our vehicles; money to pay our bills; and even enough to go fishing a few times a week.  But we have a lot of friends who are not so fortunate right now.  The unemployment data paints a very bleak picture on its own, and when we consider the additional impacts on public health from a huge recession or potential depression, it compounds the real world impact of these decisions that have been based on these terrible models.  
 
I have no problems with Wolf closing schools in PA for the rest of the year at this point.  There's not really a realistic road map in place to get them back up and running for the month of May, and teachers in PA have put in incredible work in the past few weeks shifting to doing online curriculum and it's going smoothly, at least in our district.  The focus for now should be on giving our kids the best we can give them with the resources available, and not making teachers go back to work in a few weeks preparing to enforce social distancing and hand washing in the schools, and exposing themselves to hordes of kids.  As I said, I'd send my kids back to school on May 1 if schools were opened, but for the reasons listed above, I understand why that's not realistic.  
 
I agree with what Pork has written about Trump's inability and unfitness to be the public voice on this, and in fact wrote that very thing in this thread a couple pages ago.  And shocker of all shockers, even though I voted for him, I think he's doing a terrible job right now in being public voice in this crisis.  He may be doing good things behind the scenes, but he just can't help himself when the mic is on and he's logged into Twitter, and because of that we don't know what he might be doing behind the scenes.  Absolutely embarrassing.  He's been the one who has allowed Birx and Fauci to have 30 minutes of fame, when it should have been up 15 minutes ago.  I don't believe Trump could give a cogent public presentation on the situation talking about facts, data and what's really happening for more than 3 minutes without a teleprompter, and that's being generous.  
 
Dear Leader looks pretty bad to me precisely because he's allowed Birx and Fauci to be the public voice in this.  I think their lack of credibility makes him look far worse, instead of better, because it shows how unprepared he is to take the reigns on something like this, or to have somebody in his administration take the reigns on something like this.  What was needed from the start was collaboration between medical experts, economic experts, and I'm sure a couple other categories of experts to come up with a cogent and comprehensive response to this.  Realistically probably an evolution of some sort of collaboration like that, as the focus for the first week or two was rightly on attacking testing, supplies, and things directly related to the virus.  Again, I haven't really seen a Western leader or government that was prepared for this, so I do make allowances for that.  We should absolutely be demanding to know why the mood shift on this from, "This is nothing," to "This is serious," wasn't urgent enough and wasn't cohesive enough, and hasn't been cohesive enough.  Lots of leaders with a D next to their name weren't understanding the seriousness of this either, but ultimately, the President has to take the greatest responsibility for this if he wants to take the credit when we we recover, and you know he will want to do that!  
 
I agree with Pork in that Pence would have been and still can be a great public voice for America right now, for those who can put his politics aside for a minute (like Pork has) and say, "Alright, get us through this with a clear voice and a confident plan that's come out of collaboration from the experts in various fields and based on what other countries have done better than we have."  
 
 
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