Helpful ReplyHot!Coronavirus opinions

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snagr
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/02 00:32:26 (permalink)
dark lines are 7 day moving averages that smooth out lags (holidays, weekends, etc) and data dumps that happen as a result of those lags.

cases have begun to turn down over the last couple days.

compared to last year, hospitalizations and deaths have begun to decouple from cases and case positivity.
DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/02 22:36:12 (permalink)
JM2
DeadGator401
r3g3
I thing the seasonal thing is kinda moot when the Feds are transporting positive people all over the country and dropping them off in so many states.
Sorta like self inflicted mass infection event possibilities.
And the Dems and their favorite 'doctor' totally ignore it.


First I've heard of this, where are you seeing this? Who's being dropped off? Where are they being dropped?






Unreal. Life goes on as usual on the mushroom farm.



Hey Buddy! I watched some Fox News today and see where you guys are getting it from. I thought that R3 was talking about something that was, let's say more widely reported. 

Hope you're having a great summer!
Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/03 16:07:39 (permalink)
Tough question just came through from our school district in a survey.
 
A - Optional masking, but quarantine of anyone within 6 feet for 15 minutes.
 
B - Universal masking with no quarantine requirements.  
 
I might have to go to the school board meeting just for the entertainment value.  Kind of like going to Walmart...
DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/03 22:02:05 (permalink)
Porktown
Tough question just came through from our school district in a survey.
 
A - Optional masking, but quarantine of anyone within 6 feet for 15 minutes.
 
B - Universal masking with no quarantine requirements.  
 
I might have to go to the school board meeting just for the entertainment value.  Kind of like going to Walmart...



I'm confused on that second option. Does that mean if a child is near another child within 6 feet for 15 mins, they need to be in quarantine?
Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/03 22:15:45 (permalink)
No quarantine if masks.

Although not in the survey, I have heard, if you have been vaccinated, then no need to quarantine on either option.

Quarantine for ten days is ridiculously disruptive of learning.
CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/05 19:58:04 (permalink)
Beware fool ! 
 

My neighbor Fred had a good-looking lady named Darlene ,
He never believed in the masks or the vaccine , 
Covid got him now he's dead and gone,
Now every night me and Darlene get it on !  
Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/05 20:07:10 (permalink)
Captain Dirty!!!
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/06 14:53:58 (permalink)
Welp we’re back to wearing masks in the office and working remotely.
DarDys
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/06 15:17:56 (permalink)
Why?

I’m pretty sure I missed most of my Logic 101 classes back in the Stone Age (too far, too early, too much in the middle of winter), but I do recall the basic logic statements of “If A, then B” and “If not A, then C.”

If the vaccine works (A), then what does it matter (B) that one wears a mask because you are protected without it?

If the vaccine does not work (A), then why the big push to get people vaccinated (C).

If the answer is it works, then no masks are needed. If the answer is it doesn’t work, then getting everyone vaccinated isn’t a priority.

Now, if the answer is it doesn’t work 100% of the time (nothing does), then the question becomes, what is the frequency and severity of the risk?

In context, from least dire to most, what are the odds of a vaccinated person (full disclosure, I have both shots) catching the virus (least dire); being hospitalized (more serious); dying (obviously, worst case)? Is it less than, more than, or equal to an auto accident (most here drive every day); a sports injury; a different disease; shot because of being in the wrong part of a city; struck by lightning; etc.

If the chances of serious or dire results pale in comparison, then should all those activities be stopped too?

As for the unvaccinated, that is there choice, for whatever reason, and while they are free to make that choice, they are not free from the consequences of said choice. But, vaccinated persons, who made that choice, again, for whatever reason, should be free from the consequences of those who made a different choice, particularly if (A) the vaccine works, then (B) they are, for an acceptable risk level compared with normal life, protected.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/06 16:11:19 (permalink)
DarDys
Why?

I’m pretty sure I missed most of my Logic 101 classes back in the Stone Age (too far, too early, too much in the middle of winter), but I do recall the basic logic statements of “If A, then B” and “If not A, then C.”

If the vaccine works (A), then what does it matter (B) that one wears a mask because you are protected without it?

If the vaccine does not work (A), then why the big push to get people vaccinated (C).

If the answer is it works, then no masks are needed. If the answer is it doesn’t work, then getting everyone vaccinated isn’t a priority.

Now, if the answer is it doesn’t work 100% of the time (nothing does), then the question becomes, what is the frequency and severity of the risk?

In context, from least dire to most, what are the odds of a vaccinated person (full disclosure, I have both shots) catching the virus (least dire); being hospitalized (more serious); dying (obviously, worst case)? Is it less than, more than, or equal to an auto accident (most here drive every day); a sports injury; a different disease; shot because of being in the wrong part of a city; struck by lightning; etc.

If the chances of serious or dire results pale in comparison, then should all those activities be stopped too?

As for the unvaccinated, that is there choice, for whatever reason, and while they are free to make that choice, they are not free from the consequences of said choice. But, vaccinated persons, who made that choice, again, for whatever reason, should be free from the consequences of those who made a different choice, particularly if (A) the vaccine works, then (B) they are, for an acceptable risk level compared with normal life, protected.


Did you mean why his office is closed and remote work is back, or was it more rhetorical to the whole situation happening right now?

If MyWar's office is anything like mine. (I work in the tech field) Liability and safety of their employees. It's simply easier to shut it back down and work remotely than it is to deal with potential outbreaks of Covid in an office, and all that comes with it. 

One thing Covid has taught society it seems, is that for many employees, working remotely is a much better situation and results in much better employee morale, which trickles into better performance, better health, etc. 

I've been 95% remote for the past few years, and I seriously doubt I'll be going back into and office, at least for the next few years.




 
DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/06 16:15:35 (permalink)
Also, the Vaccines as a whole have been proven to work with different rates of efficacy. 
It's not a black and white situation, so I'm not sure if I'd agree with those logic statements coming into play with it. 

Vaccines work at a 90% efficiency rate, and that means a 10% chance of breakthrough cases, which are less severe. 
The reasons for masking of the unvaccinated are pretty simple - protect yourself and others who are not vaccinated, and by proxy of limiting the spread of the disease, limit the potential for variants, which can potentially affect the vaccinated.

I'd like to see the exact numbers of the questions you posed as well, but I don't think we're gonna see that kind of data any time soon unfortunately. 

Here's what I've been able to find though: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html

As of August 2, 2021, more than 164 million people in the United States had been fully vaccinated against COVID-19.
During the same time, CDC received reports from 49 U.S. states and territories of 7,525 patients with COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infection who were hospitalized or died.

(Looks like the deaths were 1507 of that 7525 cases.

As for your other scenarios, Auto accidents, sports injuries, etc - I'm not sure.





Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/06 16:27:13 (permalink)
One of my medical researcher friends posted this on Facebook.  Maybe I am wrong in trusting her as an expert?  It is likely similar to the info the CDC is using for their guidance.  If you disagree, fine.  I can see why these recommendations are the case, if below is the general scientific belief. 
 
https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/latest-and-greatest-on-delta-among?justPublished=true&fbclid=IwAR1c0azv6iztCcfVUTjdO7IJ4viY2VHSIaJ8boBT3xLwB3-uoGj2rJnAdLs
 
There was a ton of new science that came out this week re: vaccine and Delta. This is where we are right now…
Efficacy against mild and moderate disease is reduced
We have been trying to nail down the “real world” efficacy of mRNA vaccines against Delta. This has proven to be difficult to do. As I wrote before, we’ve been getting mixed signals from the UK (showing an efficacy rate of 88%) and Israel (showing an efficacy rate of 64% at first, and 39% now).
Yesterday, the UK (Imperial College) released results from their ongoing study called UK REACT-1. Every month this team analyzes how vaccines continue to work against the virus. The latest data is now out. From 24 June to 12 July 2021, 98,233 volunteers in the UK were tested for COVID19. Among these people, 527 tested positive; all were Delta. After asking vaccination status, vaccine effectiveness was calculated. Vaccine effectiveness was 49% for any positive (asymptomatic and symptomatic) and 59% for symptomatic disease. In other words, vaccinated people had a 59% reduced risk of getting symptomatic COVID19 compared to unvaccinated.
So, the Israel numbers and the UK numbers are slowly agreeing: Delta significantly reduces effectiveness against symptomatic disease. No wonder we keep seeing more and more breakthrough cases in the United States.
Importantly, though, the vaccines continue to hold up for severe disease and death. At this point, this is nothing short of a miracle. The vaccine is saving a ton of lives right now.

Viral load among vaccinated is the same as unvaccinated
This week three studies (herehere, and here) came out showing that vaccinated have the same viral load as unvaccinated. This means vaccinated can spread the virus. This evidence slowly confirms the famous Massachusetts outbreak study which promoted the CDC to recommend masks again. One study (here) this week showed lower infectiousness among vaccinated, but not by much.

…at least in the first six day.
Another study from Singapore this week confirmed that the viral load among vaccinated is the same among the unvaccinated. However, and importantly, it looks like this is only the case in the first six days. Then the vaccine kicks in and there’s a far faster decline in viral load than among the unvaccinated (see graph). So, at first the vaccinated are as infectious as unvaccinated, but quickly differentiates over time. Vaccinated seem to not be infectious after 9 days (Ct=30) compared to unvaccinated at 16 days.

Bottom line: This confirms the higher rate of breakthrough cases than we anticipated. But the breakthrough cases continue to be far more mild than unvaccinated cases. Vaccinated also seem to carry the virus. So, wear those masks and remain vigilant. Especially if you have unvaccinated or vulnerable family at home.
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/06 16:35:00 (permalink)
DarDys
Why?





First all, because some breakthrough cases are still getting vaccinated people sick. Nothing works 100% of the time. The vaccines are less effective against the delta variant.
 
And many of our employees have contact with the general public, so who knows whether our customers are vaccinated or not. 
 
Another big problem is the un-vaccinated employees (who refuse to protect themselves by either vaccines or masks) are now missing time off work. This has created a substantial burden on many departments, but in particular its killing the branch network which is already stretched thin due to summer vacations, and being understaffed to begin with (which has nothing to do with covid; retail banking was always a shiitty job). Even if a vaccinated employee gets sick and has to take time off there is still the issue of lost productivity and staffing issues. So since these people are refusing to protect their own health, their employer has to take steps to do it for them.
 
Furthermore, even if people like you want to play games and pretend this issue is black and white, business owners and executive management are smart enough to understand that when things like this start to happen:
https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/coronavirus/article_95744ea2-f617-11eb-a9f3-dff28e7bba8f.html
 
It creates a problem for EVERYBODY. Because if everything shuts down again due to an overburdened healthcare system, its gonna be one huge step backwards for EVERYBODY; its gonna mean more supply chain disruption, its gonna mean more lost wages, its gonna mean more healthcare costs.
 
Lets please stop pretending that these anti-vaxxers are making choices that affect only themselves. They are screwing this up for EVERYBODY.
Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/06 16:48:40 (permalink)
Hopefully everyone knows the basics of vaccination?  It is to produce an autoimmune response WHEN your body is introduced to the virus.  i.e. infected...  Some immune systems are triggered instantly and are able to fight off the virus without knowing.  Others take a few days or more and may develop symptoms.  Others, the vaccine just didn't work with their immune system.  Medical experts were pretty clear that the vaccine would not work for everyone.  I have no idea how anyone could think there wouldn't be "breakthrough" infections.  Especially breakthrough infections that are asymptomatic.  This virus has been so selective of who it already attacks hard or even just symptomatic.  That just defies the basics of how vaccines work to think people wouldn't be infected.  Vaccines do not put some invisible shield over you, that you will not be infected.  If enough people are vaccinated, along with survivors of natural infection, then heard immunity happens when the virus has trouble finding a place to go.  Would we have hit that place if 90% of adults had gotten vaccinated, I think so.  But we aren't, so we have to deal with another masking and possible shut down.
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/06 18:09:37 (permalink)
11 month old baby with covid turned away due to lack of beds (because of idiot anti vaxxers)

https://abc7ny.com/baby-w...ric-capacity/10934562/
snagr
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/06 22:25:52 (permalink)
MyWar
11 month old baby with covid turned away due to lack of beds (because of idiot anti vaxxers)

https://abc7ny.com/baby-w...ric-capacity/10934562/


the 11th month old was having seizures. nowhere in the article does it say she had covid.

most/many patients in pediatric hospitals - which the article was specifically talking about - aren’t yet eligible for the vax.

did you read how many of the icu beds in those hospitals are filled by children with rsv?

are they idiots because they didn’t get their rsv vax? hint: there isn’t one. and the fatality rate among young children age 3 and under is far, far higher than it is for covid. we are still at about 330 something total pediatric deaths (under 18) from covid through 16 months and none documented in kids without very significant existing health problems.

among pediatric patients right now in the u.s. e.r. visits and hospitalizations for rsv are about 40% higher than they are for covid. covid is the fourth most common respiratory virus among kids right now. you can find the data on the cdc website.

nice try though.
post edited by snagr - 2021/08/06 22:33:01
DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/06 22:59:05 (permalink)
Woosh.



DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/06 23:01:42 (permalink)
Porktown
One of my medical researcher friends posted this on Facebook.  Maybe I am wrong in trusting her as an expert?  It is likely similar to the info the CDC is using for their guidance.  If you disagree, fine.  I can see why these recommendations are the case, if below is the general scientific belief. 
 
https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/latest-and-greatest-on-delta-among?justPublished=true&fbclid=IwAR1c0azv6iztCcfVUTjdO7IJ4viY2VHSIaJ8boBT3xLwB3-uoGj2rJnAdLs
 
There was a ton of new science that came out this week re: vaccine and Delta. This is where we are right now…
Efficacy against mild and moderate disease is reduced
We have been trying to nail down the “real world” efficacy of mRNA vaccines against Delta. This has proven to be difficult to do. As I wrote before, we’ve been getting mixed signals from the UK (showing an efficacy rate of 88%) and Israel (showing an efficacy rate of 64% at first, and 39% now).
Yesterday, the UK (Imperial College) released results from their ongoing study called UK REACT-1. Every month this team analyzes how vaccines continue to work against the virus. The latest data is now out. From 24 June to 12 July 2021, 98,233 volunteers in the UK were tested for COVID19. Among these people, 527 tested positive; all were Delta. After asking vaccination status, vaccine effectiveness was calculated. Vaccine effectiveness was 49% for any positive (asymptomatic and symptomatic) and 59% for symptomatic disease. In other words, vaccinated people had a 59% reduced risk of getting symptomatic COVID19 compared to unvaccinated.
So, the Israel numbers and the UK numbers are slowly agreeing: Delta significantly reduces effectiveness against symptomatic disease. No wonder we keep seeing more and more breakthrough cases in the United States.
Importantly, though, the vaccines continue to hold up for severe disease and death. At this point, this is nothing short of a miracle. The vaccine is saving a ton of lives right now.

Viral load among vaccinated is the same as unvaccinated
This week three studies (herehere, and here) came out showing that vaccinated have the same viral load as unvaccinated. This means vaccinated can spread the virus. This evidence slowly confirms the famous Massachusetts outbreak study which promoted the CDC to recommend masks again. One study (here) this week showed lower infectiousness among vaccinated, but not by much.

…at least in the first six day.
Another study from Singapore this week confirmed that the viral load among vaccinated is the same among the unvaccinated. However, and importantly, it looks like this is only the case in the first six days. Then the vaccine kicks in and there’s a far faster decline in viral load than among the unvaccinated (see graph). So, at first the vaccinated are as infectious as unvaccinated, but quickly differentiates over time. Vaccinated seem to not be infectious after 9 days (Ct=30) compared to unvaccinated at 16 days.

Bottom line: This confirms the higher rate of breakthrough cases than we anticipated. But the breakthrough cases continue to be far more mild than unvaccinated cases. Vaccinated also seem to carry the virus. So, wear those masks and remain vigilant. Especially if you have unvaccinated or vulnerable family at home.



Not sure if ya copy and pasted or took the segments that were pertinent to the discussion but bravo man. 
It's a feat to get formatting to look presentable on this site - nice job!

This is a lot of new information, I appreciate you providing it and will take a look into it.
Timachro
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/07 09:14:30 (permalink)
Big question of the day, When did the cdc become the governing body of the USA? Seems the government bends over backwards to kiss their  A**.  Also Why don't they admit that the vaccine is useless? When they get "Delta" under control, they will come up with a new deadlier variant to keep most scared. And this BS of a vaccine card to go anywhere is just that...BS! just my opinion here, what's your take?
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/07 09:30:17 (permalink)
snagr
MyWar
11 month old baby with covid turned away due to lack of beds (because of idiot anti vaxxers)

https://abc7ny.com/baby-w...ric-capacity/10934562/


the 11th month old was having seizures. nowhere in the article does it say she had covid.

most/many patients in pediatric hospitals - which the article was specifically talking about - aren’t yet eligible for the vax.

did you read how many of the icu beds in those hospitals are filled by children with rsv?

are they idiots because they didn’t get their rsv vax? hint: there isn’t one. and the fatality rate among young children age 3 and under is far, far higher than it is for covid. we are still at about 330 something total pediatric deaths (under 18) from covid through 16 months and none documented in kids without very significant existing health problems.

among pediatric patients right now in the u.s. e.r. visits and hospitalizations for rsv are about 40% higher than they are for covid. covid is the fourth most common respiratory virus among kids right now. you can find the data on the cdc website.

nice try though.


According to this, the kid has covid.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/...ifted-covid/index.html



The fact that the beds are filled up with kids with rsv actually underscores the stupidity of this anti vaxxer BS.

One issue is the stress on the healthcare system. If more healthcare resources are diverted to children with covid, that means fewer healthcare resources for children with rsv (or any other *unpreventable* pediatric disease).

Another issue is that unvaccinated adults are making the conscious decision to spread disease, and they are increasing the likelihood of infecting of a group who is not yet eligible for the vaccine - children.

When kids get infected by unvaccinated adults, those are potentially preventable infections that turn in turn place additional stress on an already overburdened healthcare system. That’s the problem, plain and simple.

The anti vaxxers / anti maskers are making it worse. Instead of moving past this and getting things back to normal, we are still mired in the same shiit.
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/07 09:54:14 (permalink)
DeadGator401
Porktown
One of my medical researcher friends posted this on Facebook.  Maybe I am wrong in trusting her as an expert?  It is likely similar to the info the CDC is using for their guidance.  If you disagree, fine.  I can see why these recommendations are the case, if below is the general scientific belief. 
 
https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/latest-and-greatest-on-delta-among?justPublished=true&fbclid=IwAR1c0azv6iztCcfVUTjdO7IJ4viY2VHSIaJ8boBT3xLwB3-uoGj2rJnAdLs
 
There was a ton of new science that came out this week re: vaccine and Delta. This is where we are right now…
Efficacy against mild and moderate disease is reduced
We have been trying to nail down the “real world” efficacy of mRNA vaccines against Delta. This has proven to be difficult to do. As I wrote before, we’ve been getting mixed signals from the UK (showing an efficacy rate of 88%) and Israel (showing an efficacy rate of 64% at first, and 39% now).
Yesterday, the UK (Imperial College) released results from their ongoing study called UK REACT-1. Every month this team analyzes how vaccines continue to work against the virus. The latest data is now out. From 24 June to 12 July 2021, 98,233 volunteers in the UK were tested for COVID19. Among these people, 527 tested positive; all were Delta. After asking vaccination status, vaccine effectiveness was calculated. Vaccine effectiveness was 49% for any positive (asymptomatic and symptomatic) and 59% for symptomatic disease. In other words, vaccinated people had a 59% reduced risk of getting symptomatic COVID19 compared to unvaccinated.
So, the Israel numbers and the UK numbers are slowly agreeing: Delta significantly reduces effectiveness against symptomatic disease. No wonder we keep seeing more and more breakthrough cases in the United States.
Importantly, though, the vaccines continue to hold up for severe disease and death. At this point, this is nothing short of a miracle. The vaccine is saving a ton of lives right now.

Viral load among vaccinated is the same as unvaccinated
This week three studies (herehere, and here) came out showing that vaccinated have the same viral load as unvaccinated. This means vaccinated can spread the virus. This evidence slowly confirms the famous Massachusetts outbreak study which promoted the CDC to recommend masks again. One study (here) this week showed lower infectiousness among vaccinated, but not by much.

…at least in the first six day.
Another study from Singapore this week confirmed that the viral load among vaccinated is the same among the unvaccinated. However, and importantly, it looks like this is only the case in the first six days. Then the vaccine kicks in and there’s a far faster decline in viral load than among the unvaccinated (see graph). So, at first the vaccinated are as infectious as unvaccinated, but quickly differentiates over time. Vaccinated seem to not be infectious after 9 days (Ct=30) compared to unvaccinated at 16 days.

Bottom line: This confirms the higher rate of breakthrough cases than we anticipated. But the breakthrough cases continue to be far more mild than unvaccinated cases. Vaccinated also seem to carry the virus. So, wear those masks and remain vigilant. Especially if you have unvaccinated or vulnerable family at home.



Not sure if ya copy and pasted or took the segments that were pertinent to the discussion but bravo man. 
It's a feat to get formatting to look presentable on this site - nice job!

This is a lot of new information, I appreciate you providing it and will take a look into it.


I appreciate it as well, but do you think anybody who isn’t already firmly in either the “pro vaccine” or “anti vaccine” camp will be persuaded by this?
r3g3
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/07 10:37:32 (permalink)
Personally I am getting sick and tired of the entire charade of back and forth over 'science' with various  'experts' all giving contrary opinions.
Get a shot and be done with it,
Notice all that talk of  Trump people and red states being behind went away when it came out who the  large groups really are that have avoided shots- nary a lib comment since.
Also am getting real mad at the Chinese.
EMitch
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/07 17:46:21 (permalink)
C'mon, guys! Look at the bright side. Of the 600,000 who died of Covid, not a single one died of the Flu. It's been eradicated. Wait! What?
 
There are thousands in hospitals right now who have had both shots. Think about that in September or October when ya go for your 3rd shot.

If you agree with the Progressive Democrats, that's freedom of speech. If you disagree, it's hate speech and racism.
DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/08 01:34:25 (permalink)
MyWar
DeadGator401
Porktown
One of my medical researcher friends posted this on Facebook.  Maybe I am wrong in trusting her as an expert?  It is likely similar to the info the CDC is using for their guidance.  If you disagree, fine.  I can see why these recommendations are the case, if below is the general scientific belief. 
 
https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/latest-and-greatest-on-delta-among?justPublished=true&fbclid=IwAR1c0azv6iztCcfVUTjdO7IJ4viY2VHSIaJ8boBT3xLwB3-uoGj2rJnAdLs
 
There was a ton of new science that came out this week re: vaccine and Delta. This is where we are right now…
Efficacy against mild and moderate disease is reduced
We have been trying to nail down the “real world” efficacy of mRNA vaccines against Delta. This has proven to be difficult to do. As I wrote before, we’ve been getting mixed signals from the UK (showing an efficacy rate of 88%) and Israel (showing an efficacy rate of 64% at first, and 39% now).
Yesterday, the UK (Imperial College) released results from their ongoing study called UK REACT-1. Every month this team analyzes how vaccines continue to work against the virus. The latest data is now out. From 24 June to 12 July 2021, 98,233 volunteers in the UK were tested for COVID19. Among these people, 527 tested positive; all were Delta. After asking vaccination status, vaccine effectiveness was calculated. Vaccine effectiveness was 49% for any positive (asymptomatic and symptomatic) and 59% for symptomatic disease. In other words, vaccinated people had a 59% reduced risk of getting symptomatic COVID19 compared to unvaccinated.
So, the Israel numbers and the UK numbers are slowly agreeing: Delta significantly reduces effectiveness against symptomatic disease. No wonder we keep seeing more and more breakthrough cases in the United States.
Importantly, though, the vaccines continue to hold up for severe disease and death. At this point, this is nothing short of a miracle. The vaccine is saving a ton of lives right now.

Viral load among vaccinated is the same as unvaccinated
This week three studies (herehere, and here) came out showing that vaccinated have the same viral load as unvaccinated. This means vaccinated can spread the virus. This evidence slowly confirms the famous Massachusetts outbreak study which promoted the CDC to recommend masks again. One study (here) this week showed lower infectiousness among vaccinated, but not by much.

…at least in the first six day.
Another study from Singapore this week confirmed that the viral load among vaccinated is the same among the unvaccinated. However, and importantly, it looks like this is only the case in the first six days. Then the vaccine kicks in and there’s a far faster decline in viral load than among the unvaccinated (see graph). So, at first the vaccinated are as infectious as unvaccinated, but quickly differentiates over time. Vaccinated seem to not be infectious after 9 days (Ct=30) compared to unvaccinated at 16 days.

Bottom line: This confirms the higher rate of breakthrough cases than we anticipated. But the breakthrough cases continue to be far more mild than unvaccinated cases. Vaccinated also seem to carry the virus. So, wear those masks and remain vigilant. Especially if you have unvaccinated or vulnerable family at home.



Not sure if ya copy and pasted or took the segments that were pertinent to the discussion but bravo man. 
It's a feat to get formatting to look presentable on this site - nice job!

This is a lot of new information, I appreciate you providing it and will take a look into it.


I appreciate it as well, but do you think anybody who isn’t already firmly in either the “pro vaccine” or “anti vaccine” camp will be persuaded by this?


I doubt it, but I also don't care. I'm pretty much filled with Covid/Vaccine Fatigue at this point. 
I'm glad the info was provided, I have some major personal things going on directly tied to this, all the info I can get the better.
DeadGator401
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/08 01:43:56 (permalink)
r3g3
Personally I am getting sick and tired of the entire charade of back and forth over 'science' with various  'experts' all giving contrary opinions.
Get a shot and be done with it,
Notice all that talk of  Trump people and red states being behind went away when it came out who the  large groups really are that have avoided shots- nary a lib comment since.
Also am getting real mad at the Chinese.



Absolutely agree here. It's pretty clear at this point, the vaccines prevent Covid infections at a high rate. 

The more the Disease is able to spread, which is mainly through unvaccinated populations, the more it can and has mutated, into more dangerous varieties, which affect EVERYONE. 

It's exhausting to deal with people anymore. I wish Arthur wasn't such a dead sea for me. (Or, I was a better fisherman)
MyWar
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/08 10:04:43 (permalink)
r3g3
Notice all that talk of  Trump people and red states being behind went away when it came out who the  large groups really are that have avoided shots- nary a lib comment since.



What groups are you referring to??

Most of the states with low vaccination rates that are getting hit right now - Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi… are red states. It’s pretty obvious what’s happening there. If I’ve stopped commenting on it, it’s because I’m tired of repeating myself or stating the obvious.
r3g3
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/08 11:42:45 (permalink)
Those are the Rep places they tell you about in the lib press- the inner cities have been found to be very vaccine negative.
Its a much bigger picture than the Rep States that DC likes to trash for political reasons.
This is why so much of the info we get is such BS.
Porktown
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/08 12:44:47 (permalink)
DeadGator401
 
Not sure if ya copy and pasted or took the segments that were pertinent to the discussion but bravo man. 
It's a feat to get formatting to look presentable on this site - nice job!

This is a lot of new information, I appreciate you providing it and will take a look into it.


Besides what I wrote prior to the link, it was 100% copy and paste.  I was kind of surprised all of the graphs showed up.  I just felt it fit the conversation, at least an explanation of why masks would be recommended for those vaccinated.  
 
And definitely not likely changing any minds that are already made up.  A few keep an open mind and will read both sides.  I read most of what Snagr posts and agree with some of it.  I do think he and others keep an open mind and likely agree with some things.  I know for sure he keeps an open mind on other topics.  Some on here are 100% whatever the party line says.  None of my posts that involve debate are meant for them.  100% of my posts mentioning sheep are for them and not those capable of producing their own thought.  
 
To me, this explanation makes sense.  Vaccines do not provide magical powers to keep a virus away from you.  They are simply to trigger your immune system to feel like it has already been infected.  I am yet to read anything that has convinced me that anyone that has tested positive and fought off the virus, should have to get a vaccine.  To me, I don't think this group of VARIFIED positive people should be pressured at all for a vaccine.  Those that "think" they had it, is another story.
 
To note what people have been saying about the deep south spreading.  We are in the middle of their "indoor season".  Their summer is like out winter, in terms of people congregating indoors.  It is undeniable that this virus, regardless of variant, spreads much faster in enclosed spaces.  It is much like last summer with the spread happening more in the southern states in the summer and northern states in the winter.  Hopefully this variant and others have run their course by winter time for us.
r3g3
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/08 13:15:36 (permalink)
Have  long felt that, after al is said and done, this virus will need an annual booster just like the flu.
Each year they try and predict what variety of flu will dominate and adjust the vaccine accordingly.
Even with the shot ya can get flu but with the antibodies in your system already its only  mild infection.
Sounding a lot like this-----
 
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Re: Coronavirus opinions 2021/08/08 13:59:57 (permalink)
r3g3
Those are the Rep places they tell you about in the lib press- the inner cities have been found to be very vaccine negative.
Its a much bigger picture than the Rep States that DC likes to trash for political reasons.
This is why so much of the info we get is such BS.


as a whole, black and latino people in the u.s. have around a 30% adult vaccination rate. cdc compiles demographic data on vaccination on their website.

many of the southern red states where vax rates are low have that we keep hearing about have significant portions of their populations that are black and latino. i’m sure there are some white republicans that account for lower vax rates as well.

one of biden’s covid advisors michael osterholm was on anderson cooper last week saying once again that masks offer almost no protection to anybody. my guess is that it was a move to encourage those who aren’t vaxxed but believe masks work to get vaxxed instead.
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