AnsweredLegality of Trout beads

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cdcaddis
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2020/01/06 18:25:33 (permalink)

Legality of Trout beads

Okay I did a search on Trout beads and for whatever reason when I located a post and clicked the link I got that 404 Error and the page is not available. So please don't beat me up about my question.  PM me if respondents don't want to re-hash a previous thread.
 
Is the use of pegged trout beads legal to use in the PA steelhead streams entering Lake Erie and are they legal to use in the lake.  Most guys I talk to, including some guides, say they are fine and legal.  However when I spoke to a CO at a fly fishing show in Lancaster, PA in March 2019 he told me they were illegal and if he saw me using them he would cite me.  He says it is snagging and the fish are hooked outside of the mouth.  That is sometimes true but in my experience they are hooked inside the mouth just as often as outside the mouth.  It all depends on how the hook rotates after you strike.
 
He couldn't pinpoint where in the regulations it says they are illegal.  I didn't pursue the conversation and I just stopped using them in PA.  They are definitely legal in OH and NY.
 
Thanks in advance for any definitive answers.
post edited by cdcaddis - 2020/01/06 18:31:42

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genieman77
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/06 19:12:39 (permalink)
cdcaddis

He couldn't pinpoint where in the regulations it says they are illegal.



 
 
then it sounds like he needs to go back to fishcop skool if you asked me
 
..L.T.A.
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genieman77
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/06 20:30:33 (permalink)
The method you describe is often referred to as the "Trout Bead Method" or "the Moffet Method". It is not specifically addressed by those titles in our regulations.

PFBC Regulations state that fish may not be foul-hooked (hooked anywhere other than inside the mouth), and it is also illegal to intentionally attempt to snag or foul hook a fish. The following is the exact wording of the current Title 58 regulations.
§ 63.9. Snatch fishing, foul hooking and snag fishing.
(a) It is unlawful to take or attempt to take fish by the methods known as snatch fishing, foul hooking or snag fishing or to take or attempt to take fish with a snagging hook or device which may be used to capture the fish by engaging the device in, to, with, or around any part of the body of the fish. In addition, it is unlawful to possess a snagging hook while in the act of fishing. A snagging hook is a fishing device that is designed or modified to facilitate the snagging of fish. It is either of the following:
(1) A hook with other than a single barb which is weighted on the shank at any point below the eye of the hook and above the barbs thereof.
(2) A hook that is otherwise designed or modified so as to make the snagging of fish more likely when it is used than if a normal hook or fishing device were used.
Since the Trout Bead and Moffet Methods are designed to hook a fish on the outside of the mouth they are not currently considered legal in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

The beads do not make the terminal tackle a regulated item, it is the manner in which the fish would be hooked.

LTC Don Lauver
Assistant Director
Bureau of Law Enforcement
PA Fish and Boat Commission
717-705-7866
 
 
 
 
sounds to me like it all has to do where you pin the bead .
if at hook eye, fish will be hooked inside mouth.
3 to 6" above hook eye, outside of mouth
 
 
..L.T.A.
 
 
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Moses Guthrie
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/06 20:49:52 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby cdcaddis 2020/01/06 20:55:49
I just heat my hook and put the bead on the hook. No issues with the law and fish don't seem to mind.
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cdcaddis
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/06 20:55:11 (permalink)
Since the Trout Bead and Moffet Methods are designed to hook a fish on the outside of the mouth they are not currently considered legal in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

The beads do not make the terminal tackle a regulated item, it is the manner in which the fish would be hooked.

LTC Don Lauver
Assistant Director
Bureau of Law Enforcement
PA Fish and Boat Commission
717-705-7866
 
 
 
 
sounds to me like it all has to do where you pin the bead .
if at hook eye, fish will be hooked inside mouth.
3 to 6" above hook eye, outside of mouth
 
 
..L.T.A.
 
 



I don't believe the Trout Bead and Moffet Method was designed to hook a fish on the outside of their mouth.  I'm 99% sure the process was developed in Alaska as a means to consistently catch rainbows and some of the Pacific salmon species.  That some fish are hooked outside of the mouth is a resultant of whether the leader goes through the open mouth of the fish or does it stay outside of the mouth.
 
If this is going to be enforced to the letter of the law then PFBC needs to get about 25 more CO's to police all the PA streams entering Lake Erie, and start writing citations, because the use of pegged beads is very common.  I liked using beads.  I hated losing flies and even with an indicator I could lose six flies a day easily.  Besides trout beads are just so **** good that it's hard not to want to use them if they are legal.  I still use them in NY & OH but not in PA.

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Millerdaga
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/06 20:56:15 (permalink)
Moses Guthrie
I just heat my hook and put the bead on the hook. No issues with the law and fish don't seem to mind.

+1

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cdcaddis
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/06 20:59:27 (permalink)
I've thought about slipping one of those very tiny Eagle Claw bobber stops onto my tippet and them slip the tippet through the bead and tie on the hook.  Then slide the bobber stop down against the bead until it is pressing directly against the eye of the hook.  Then it won't be pegged 2" - 4" above the hook and when a steelhead eats it should be right inside the mouth.  No legal issues.
post edited by cdcaddis - 2020/01/06 21:26:17

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3mile
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/07 08:53:16 (permalink)
Sounds like you are being picky about people out fishing you with a plastic bead while you have nasty egg juice all over your fingers. I've had fish commission check me as I fished with beads and nothing was said.
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cdcaddis
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/07 10:35:25 (permalink)
3mile
Sounds like you are being picky about people out fishing you with a plastic bead while you have nasty egg juice all over your fingers. I've had fish commission check me as I fished with beads and nothing was said.



Why in the world would you make a statement like that when you have never met me, never fished with me, or even have a clue about my fishing techniques or skills?
 
That is why in my OP I even mentioned don't beat me up for asking a question that might already of been asked.  I've seen some of the back biting posts on this Forum where a guy asks a seemingly innocuous question and before you know it he is being attacked for one thing or another.
 
I've never fished an egg sack or single egg anywhere while fishing for steelhead or any trout/salmon species.  I've caught thousands of trout and a satisfying number of steelhead.  I fish at least 90 days a year in NY, PA, OH, MT, and the Caribbean.  I only fly fish, with flies I've tied, for trout.  I fish flies and beads for steelhead.  I both fly fish and spin fish for smallmouth and saltwater.
 
"I've had fish commission check me as I fished with beads and nothing was said."  If that is the case I guess that CO doesn't know the rules very well.  Maybe he needs to discuss his interpretation of the rule book with Mr. Lauver.
 
While all of the other comments have been very helpful and constructive it's unfortunate that within just two days of my OP I get an off the wall comment that has not one iota of merit relative to my question.  Have a great day.
 
 
post edited by cdcaddis - 2020/01/07 10:39:48

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solitario lupo
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/07 11:42:35 (permalink)
From what I hear it’s up to the officer which isn’t fair. I think there going to be illegal soon since it is a form of snagging. If you don’t keep the fish then you can’t be in violation. They can’t do anything if you put the beads on the hook. So it’s taking a chance.
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cdcaddis
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/07 12:37:01 (permalink)
solitario lupo
From what I hear it’s up to the officer which isn’t fair. I think there going to be illegal soon since it is a form of snagging. If you don’t keep the fish then you can’t be in violation. They can’t do anything if you put the beads on the hook. So it’s taking a chance.



I agree.  It's not worth taking the chance.  I caught plenty of steelhead before I learned about the beads and if I continue to fish PA, which is unlikely, I will use flies like I used to.  I guess if I really want to be honest with myself (although I never thought about this until just now) it is snagging since the steelhead eats the bead and then when you strike you are pulling the bead out of the fish's mouth and impaling him with the hook.  I guess I have been a dirty snagger and will amend my ways and leave the Dark Side.
 
Allowing two flies, while it wasn't the intention of PFBC, if the angler is slow on the strike you wind up foul hooking the steelhead somewhere else other than the mouth.  Or if there are a lot of steelhead in a pool or run there is a greater likelihood of foul hooking fish with two flies drifting through the pod.
post edited by cdcaddis - 2020/01/07 12:44:14

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WVDepscritch
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/07 19:20:28 (permalink)
Hence the term flossing!
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genieman77
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/07 19:49:39 (permalink)
some are whacked out  if you  ask me .
 
if you're sight drifting a line or hook into a fished face (lining) that's one thing
BUTT....If a fish BITES the  bead, you're an overzealous kOOk if you think it unethical because the hook pierced outside the lip
 
as far as beads in the box....there's nothing mysterious or magic about beads.
They work no better or worse than any other fly or yarn on any given day
 
 
..L.T.A.
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cdcaddis
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/07 19:58:06 (permalink)
 
 

genieman77
some are whacked out  if you  ask me .
 
if you're sight drifting a line or hook into a fished face (lining) that's one thing
BUTT....If a fish BITES the  bead, you're an overzealous kOOk if you think it unethical because the hook pierced outside the lip
 
as far as beads in the box....there's nothing mysterious or magic about beads.
They work no better or worse than any other fly or yarn on any given day
 
 
 
..L.T.A.




I surely don't think it is unethical.  I was merely seeking verifiable information.
 
post edited by cdcaddis - 2020/01/07 19:59:14

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genieman77
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/07 20:27:48 (permalink)
cdcaddis
 
 

genieman77
some are whacked out  if you  ask me .
 
if you're sight drifting a line or hook into a fished face (lining) that's one thing
BUTT....If a fish BITES the  bead, you're an overzealous kOOk if you think it unethical because the hook pierced outside the lip
 
as far as beads in the box....there's nothing mysterious or magic about beads.
They work no better or worse than any other fly or yarn on any given day
 
 
 
..L.T.A.




I surely don't think it is unethical.  I was merely seeking verifiable information.
 




 
not you duud
there are some whack'd zealots out there
 
..L.T.A.
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solitario lupo
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/08 14:54:57 (permalink)
cdcaddis
solitario lupo
From what I hear it’s up to the officer which isn’t fair. I think there going to be illegal soon since it is a form of snagging. If you don’t keep the fish then you can’t be in violation. They can’t do anything if you put the beads on the hook. So it’s taking a chance.



I agree.  It's not worth taking the chance.  I caught plenty of steelhead before I learned about the beads and if I continue to fish PA, which is unlikely, I will use flies like I used to.  I guess if I really want to be honest with myself (although I never thought about this until just now) it is snagging since the steelhead eats the bead and then when you strike you are pulling the bead out of the fish's mouth and impaling him with the hook.  I guess I have been a dirty snagger and will amend my ways and leave the Dark Side.
 
Allowing two flies, while it wasn't the intention of PFBC, if the angler is slow on the strike you wind up foul hooking the steelhead somewhere else other than the mouth.  Or if there are a lot of steelhead in a pool or run there is a greater likelihood of foul hooking fish with two flies drifting through the pod.



I’ve learned that while musky fishing, that fish are so quick to release the lure and if your not quick enough and slow on setting the hook then you can catch them on there gill plates a lot. Which is still considered snagging but at least you still feel the strike. As for the beads when on the line I swear they can float right in there mouths without them taking it. Which goes for when it’s shallow and there in pods and you can see them. Any fly would do since your probably snagging a couple. Hey it happens. Like I said if you want to fish beads maybe peg them real close to the hook or put them on the hook with a little heat or just change over to blood dots.
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3mile
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/08 15:27:06 (permalink)
I use the glass beads from creek candy and have way more success than I do with plastic. Call me a local Erie snagger if you would like.
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/08 17:06:30 (permalink)

solitario lupo

 As for the beads when on the line I swear they can float right in there mouths without them taking it. Which goes for when it’s shallow and there in pods and you can see them. Any fly would do since your probably snagging a couple. 



I've noticed the best fly rod sight " lifters" in clear water always use the brightest colors ....never darker or dull colors they can't see.....yet they swear the fish grabbed it everytime....I believe ya !....lol
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solitario lupo
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/09 11:44:01 (permalink)
CAPTAIN HOOK

solitario lupo

As for the beads when on the line I swear they can float right in there mouths without them taking it. Which goes for when it’s shallow and there in pods and you can see them. Any fly would do since your probably snagging a couple. 



I've noticed the best fly rod sight " lifters" in clear water always use the brightest colors ....never darker or dull colors they can't see.....yet they swear the fish grabbed it everytime....I believe ya !....lol


I hear ya capt. I use the brightest egg pattern I can. You can watch it float right in there mouths lol.
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solitario lupo
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/09 12:07:00 (permalink)


Here’s eggs I make and use for them. Another idea for ya cdcaddis. Just run these up the line a little.

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15ftstcroix
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/15 10:31:35 (permalink)
The pegged bead was developed by guides in alaska to keep the rainbows (that are gobbling 
down all the salmon eggs they can) from swallowing the egg and getting gut hooked. the trout grab the bead you feel the bite, set the hook and bingo you have them in the corner of the mouth most of the time.. enjoy the battle reach down and release them easily. The guides realized that too many trout were getting hurt when the beads were on the hook so they came up with pegging them above the hook 1 to 3 inches. usually 2 inches. As far as being a snagging method i would disagree. Ive used the beads on my 
fly pole and caught lots of trout in the corner of the mouth which were released easily. Ive also caught lots on my centerpin outfit and most were caught inside the mouth usually in the top lip also an easy release. by the letter of the law in pa if caught outside the mouth it must be released, no biggie its all about catching the fish not so much about killing the fish. Its nice to eat one once in awhile but 3, 5 to 10 # trout on a rope is a sure waste of everyones fishing resources. I would really like to see the limit on the tribs reduced to 1 per person per day and everyone would benefit by having LOTS more fish to catch. THINK ABOUT IT!!!!
 
 
 
 
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DarDys
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/15 10:41:13 (permalink)
Does a trout or steelhead have to show its fins in order to get trout beads?😀

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/15 10:49:34 (permalink)
DarDys
Does a trout or steelhead have to show its fins in order to get trout beads?😀



That's just.... not.... right!! 😂😂

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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Lucky13
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Re: Legality of Trout beads 2020/01/15 10:52:38 (permalink)
Only in NOLA!
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